Would you like to know how wetlands can produce more ducks?

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Postby Tom Phillips* » Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:42 pm

#1wingnut wrote:Just a guess.............
Plant an Oak Tree in the middle of it???


Well, oak trees can help feed the ducks, especially mallards and wood ducks, but that's not primary.
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Postby wackemstackem » Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:32 am

:no: For such a smart guy I guess you diddent understand when A2 told you to knock it off.

So can you tell me what the asteric is for before you get banned again. :hammer:
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Postby jehler » Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:33 am

grit
Buy it, use it, break it, fix it,
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Postby Skyblaster7 » Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:17 am

Tom Phillips* wrote:
Admin2 wrote:I'll take "serious" for $1000 Alex.


Enough of the playing games. Tom spit it out or I'll lock this topic. And if you start it up again I'll suspend you. Is that serious enough for you? I really dislike any member playing games with members, it is rude at best and down right disrespectful to some here. So I will not stand by any longer having you continue to be that way to our members here.


I'm sorry that I've seemed to upset you and others. I just read your post right after I posted below you. I must have been typing at the same time you were posting. What rule did I break, or who did I insult.

I apologize if I did so.

Tom*


Me, you insulted me, Tom. And also, just because I don't like you doesn't me I or anyone else on DC for that matter isn't serious about conservation, fyi. This should just be locked, imo. It was a bust topic to start with.
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Postby Tom Phillips* » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:03 am

Skyblaster7 wrote: Me, you insulted me, Tom. And also, just because I don't like you doesn't me I or anyone else on DC for that matter isn't serious about conservation, fyi. This should just be locked, imo. It was a bust topic to start with.


How did I insult you? I gave you an opening to post a link to an article that shows how to maintain and improve wetlands.



You did so. You should be thanking me.
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Postby gadwall getter » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:39 pm

can you guys just shut up already!!! were here to talk about duck hunting and other outdoor hobbies. so quit acting like a bunch of school girls and be men! which means no drama!!!!
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Postby jrockncash » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:20 pm

So whats the answer? Tom* buddy I think you may be a PETA spy man. Seriously, you say shenanigan stuff that pisses everyone off and then claim superiority. Its actually a pretty good play on your part because you have lasted a long time but I think you should hang back a little and see what happens.

No one acts the way you do and is truly a sportsmen or conservationist. But good work and keep it coming cause it makes me laugh. Oh, and if you can go ahead and correct a spelling mistake or some obscure grammatical error I have made. That would be great.


So everyone else get mad at his sillyness and I will call a spade a spade. And he drives to fast and smokes outside buildings when it clearly says not to.
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Postby Tom Phillips* » Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:14 am

jehler wrote:grit


Grit is a factor in the needs of ducks. It seems that they could get it naturally for the most part. What are your thoughts about it?
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Postby HotDog » Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:16 pm

Grits?

Not that I think about them much, but, what do you guys eat them with?
What are they made of and how do they taste?
We don't see too much of them this far north.
Thanks for your input.
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Postby Montanafowler » Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:01 pm

HotDog wrote:Grits?

Not that I think about them much, but, what do you guys eat them with?
What are they made of and how do they taste?
We don't see too much of them this far north.
Thanks for your input.


actually jehler and Tom* were talking about the gravel most birds need to break down their food.


grits is basically corn porridge, a delicious breakfast meal :yes:
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Postby Tom Phillips* » Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:01 am

idahofowler wrote: (grit)... the gravel most birds need to break down their food.


Do ducks always get enough grit?

If not, what happens?
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Postby wackemstackem » Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:25 am

Tom Phillips* wrote:
idahofowler wrote: (grit)... the gravel most birds need to break down their food.


Do ducks always get enough grit?

If not, what happens?


Does Tom* ever stop asking questions he knows the answers to.

If knot,what happens? :hammer:
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Postby HotDog » Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:55 am

wackemstackem wrote:
Tom Phillips* wrote:
idahofowler wrote: (grit)... the gravel most birds need to break down their food.


Do ducks always get enough grit?

If not, what happens?


Does Tom* ever stop asking questions he knows the answers to.

If knot,what happens? :hammer:


Does Tom* really have the answers, or is he fishing for them?
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Postby jehler » Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:04 am

source without pressure
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Postby Montanafowler » Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:08 am

Tom*, without the proper amount of grit in a bird's gizzard, the bird could not digest food properly and would probably not eat, causing it to starve until it found proper grit, or if it alrady had food stored in its crop, it would regurgitate the food or be forced to metabolize undigested material which would probably lead to digestive tract problems and or complications resulting in the bird's death.
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Postby WisconsinWaterfowler » Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:09 am

I know the answers but I'm not telling. He gives you a clue in previous posts.
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Postby duckhnter4life » Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:39 pm

this is honestly the dumbest topic you could have done. Tom if you dont get the serious tone from everyone on here extremly ticked off at you cuz they thought they were going to see how to better a habitat then you got major problems. why dont you just let it out and stop waisting our time.
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Postby Tom Phillips* » Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:11 pm

jehler wrote:source without pressure


allows for exploitation of of otherwise unusable resources.

(you're getting good) :smile:
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Postby Tom Phillips* » Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:27 pm

idahofowler wrote:Tom*, without the proper amount of grit in a bird's gizzard, the bird could not digest food properly and would probably not eat, causing it to starve until it found proper grit, or if it alrady had food stored in its crop, it would regurgitate the food or be forced to metabolize undigested material which would probably lead to digestive tract problems and or complications resulting in the bird's death.


Pretty good. It seems from research and observation, that mallards can utilize foods based on the quantity and type of grit they have on board. If they don't have enough of the proper grit, they can't use some otherwise excellent food items like corn. If they have little or no grit in their gizzards, they are forced to eat small grains or soft food. This was, and still is, an issue in a few places. New birds come into an area, but the grit sources are not used by the ducks. So the ducks stay in open fields and appear listless even when they're surrounded by hundreds of acres of food (corn and other grains). These ducks are taken and have little or no grit in their gizzards. What should be a feeding paradise for them is effectively desolate. Then when the slightest storm front comes through, they depart.

An interesting fact I came across while doing some background research on grit retention, is that mallards can actually hold on to their grit for several days, and when they release it, they do it in batches. I think it was more than 50% of the grit was in fewer than 5% of the droppings (lab study).
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Postby Tom Phillips* » Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:35 pm

duckhnter4life wrote: Tom... everyone on here ... thought they were going to see how to better a habitat.


duckhunter4life,

I just reviewed a bunch of your posts. You look as if you're serious.

Email me at:

MallardRice100@comcast.net

Tom*
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Postby Montanafowler » Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:42 pm

Tom Phillips* wrote:
idahofowler wrote:Tom*, without the proper amount of grit in a bird's gizzard, the bird could not digest food properly and would probably not eat, causing it to starve until it found proper grit, or if it alrady had food stored in its crop, it would regurgitate the food or be forced to metabolize undigested material which would probably lead to digestive tract problems and or complications resulting in the bird's death.


Pretty good. It seems from research and observation, that mallards can utilize foods based on the quantity and type of grit they have on board. If they don't have enough of the proper grit, they can't use some otherwise excellent food items like corn. If they have little or no grit in their gizzards, they are forced to eat small grains or soft food. This was, and still is, an issue in a few places. New birds come into an area, but the grit sources are not used by the ducks. So the ducks stay in open fields and appear listless even when they're surrounded by hundreds of acres of food (corn and other grains). These ducks are taken and have little or no grit in their gizzards. What should be a feeding paradise for them is effectively desolate. Then when the slightest storm front comes through, they depart.

An interesting fact I came across while doing some background research on grit retention, is that mallards can actually hold on to their grit for several days, and when they release it, they do it in batches. I think it was more than 50% of the grit was in fewer than 5% of the droppings (lab study).


now that really is interesting, i never knew that they could retain the grit for extended periods. i wonder how the gizzard distinguishes food from grit so as to allow the bird to hold it longer.
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Postby Skyblaster7 » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:28 am

Tom, grit in other species is actually just dirt with minerals that serve as an antidote to toxins. Kaopectate, which consists partly of clay, soothes a person's upset stomach in similar ways (Gilardi et al. 1999). The negatively charged sites of the clay minerals bind to the positvely charged toxin molecules in the acid environment of the stomach. Now, it is important for birds to acquire little pieces of "grit" to aide in the digestion of their food, but it varies taxonomically.
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Postby Skyblaster7 » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:32 am

Also, birds can retain grit if aquisition of newer grit is not possible. Tom can you pm me your source of knowledge (ie. send me the paper you read).
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Postby Tom Phillips* » Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:12 am

Skyblaster7 wrote:Tom, grit in other species is actually just dirt with minerals that serve as an antidote to toxins. Kaopectate, which consists partly of clay, soothes a person's upset stomach in similar ways (Gilardi et al. 1999). The negatively charged sites of the clay minerals bind to the positvely charged toxin molecules in the acid environment of the stomach. Now, it is important for birds to acquire little pieces of "grit" to aide in the digestion of their food, but it varies taxonomically.


I've just looked at ducks, specifically mallards as they are the predominant species studied (Anas platyrhynchos). It was several papers coupled with the observations of a very knowledgable friend that induced me to explore this topic a bit more.

Mallards will preferentially pick up certain types of grit too. Size and mineral type. Sandstone (an inert substance) is the usual choice for male adult mallards. Females prior to breeding season will increase their consumption of calcium carbonate (oyster shell) when it's presented, prior to and during breeding season.

Email me at:

MallardRice100@comcast.net

I already have some links to some of the papers in my email correspondence, and it will be easier to forward them that way.

Tom*

The motivation for many grit studies relates to toxicity: specifically lead pellet ingestion, retention, toxic effects...

[edit: correct spelling]
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