Surface Drive Build **Update 10/20**

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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby Erich_870 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:55 pm

Great start! That bolt circle has some BEEF to it! :thumbsup:

How to you plan to thread the belt housing to recive those alan head bolts?

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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby sftull » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:29 pm

Great start! That bolt circle has some BEEF to it! :thumbsup:
How to you plan to thread the belt housing to recive those alan head bolts?


Yea its pretty beefy! To get the threads in the belt housing, I'll get the flange positioned where I want it and clamp the two together. Then I'll take a drill bushing and small drill bit and put a dimple in the belt housing where the hole for the threads needs to go. After I get all the dimples made, I'll drill the holes with my drill press and tap the holes.

What do y'all think about running a chain drive? I really like the belt idea, but designing a tensioner and the cost of the parts are really making me lean to chain drive. I can change sprockets pretty cheaply. If I wanted to change a pulley, it would be atleast $60+

If I run a chain, I can put an Enforcer Centrifugal clutch on it. http://www.heeters.com/kartclutches.shtml 6th clutch down. That clutch will hold up to 40hp and I can make it engage between 850 - 2400 rpm's. I would like to have an electric pto clutch but I think it will draw more energy than the little alternator can put out.
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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby Erich_870 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:20 pm

sftull wrote:Yea its pretty beefy! To get the threads in the belt housing, I'll get the flange positioned where I want it and clamp the two together. Then I'll take a drill bushing and small drill bit and put a dimple in the belt housing where the hole for the threads needs to go. After I get all the dimples made, I'll drill the holes with my drill press and tap the holes.

What do y'all think about running a chain drive? I really like the belt idea, but designing a tensioner and the cost of the parts are really making me lean to chain drive. I can change sprockets pretty cheaply. If I wanted to change a pulley, it would be atleast $60+

If I run a chain, I can put an Enforcer Centrifugal clutch on it. http://www.heeters.com/kartclutches.shtml 6th clutch down. That clutch will hold up to 40hp and I can make it engage between 850 - 2400 rpm's. I would like to have an electric pto clutch but I think it will draw more energy than the little alternator can put out.


Sure, chain or belt, they both transmit power. Guywithahat showed chain works great! :thumbsup:

You'll probably notice it's louder and you'll really want to watch out for chain slap against the housing, it won't take long to do some damage.

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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby Griffin4590 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:48 pm

wow man that looks great. get it TIG welded. I see you're in rock hill and if you want some flawless tig welding done i got the guy for ya.
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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby sftull » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:17 am

wow man that looks great. get it TIG welded. I see you're in rock hill and if you want some flawless tig welding done i got the guy for ya.


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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby sftull » Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:48 pm

Haven't had much time for machining parts lately but was able to get the belt housing mounted to the transom bracket.
Image

Drive shaft housing isn't bolted up, but you get the idea.
Image

Nothing has been tightened down, just fitting everything together.
Image

I need to figure out how long to make the drive shaft. I can make it about 30" max and as short as I want. Any suggestions??
Also....I still haven't figured out how to trim this thing.....really need some help here guys!!!

I have also talked to a local gentleman that has been tig welding aluminum for 25+ years. He was the teacher at the local tech college for most of that. He has agreed to weld everything up for me. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby CountryDuck » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:12 am

What if you welded a bridge over you transom mount to the part attached to the boat with a nut on it and then attached a threaded rod to the part of mount that pivots. When you thread the rod out towards the front of the boat it will pull up on the motor.
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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby guywithhat » Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:29 am

looks like that transom mount already has trim holes in it.... :biggrin: but as for running a chain drive... I have a tensioner on one side of my chain.. and it makes some noise.. and I think when I let off the other side is flapin around a hair... I saw a floating chain tensioner on mcmaster's site, it used poly half moon shaped bushings I thinks. Threw the winter Iam going to build a floating double idler setup for mine... basicly 2 pieces of flat bar with idler wheels at each end and bolts between em... the idler wheels off the mini bikes tho.. not an idler gear... I found the wheels on ebay fairly cheap... seems like it would work... with the 2 sides of the chain pulled in together in the center.. the device couldn't really move to far up or down....
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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby sftull » Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:17 pm

Had some time today and made pretty good headway.....its finally starting to take shape. I have one bearing cup and the drive shaft left to machine then I will get everything assembled and fire it up.
Image

Image

There will be an aluminum cover that goes over the output shaft and sprocket.
Image

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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby MAX4Utah » Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:39 pm

Here's your trim :thumbsup:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/CMC-PT35 ... l+Products

A bit pricy. maybe you can use your mad machining skils and make something like it.
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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby aeonstar » Mon Dec 26, 2011 5:43 pm

ok noticed you used your old outboard to layout where you wanted your prop to be...... you do understand that the props you run on motors like this are Surface piercing props. Correct trim is with part of the prop out of the water. Might want to rethink the length of your down tube. You want to be able to clear the prop clean out of the water/mud if you push down on the handle.
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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby sftull » Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:44 pm

Here's your trim :thumbsup:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/CMC-PT35 ... l+Products

A bit pricy. maybe you can use your mad machining skils and make something like it.


Max, I actually talked to CMC the other day about just buying the hydraulic ram and fabing a tilt trim from scratch. I have decided to wait to see if the static trim holes work but if they don't, then I'll probably buy the hydraulic ram from CMC. :thumbsup:

ok noticed you used your old outboard to layout where you wanted your prop to be...... you do understand that the props you run on motors like this are Surface piercing props. Correct trim is with part of the prop out of the water. Might want to rethink the length of your down tube. You want to be able to clear the prop clean out of the water/mud if you push down on the handle.


aeonstar.... thanks for the heads up. I didn't use the outboard to layout where the prop goes....its just in the pic, b/c I didn't take it off to lock up this motor and I am aware that surface drives run surface piercing props. Before I finalized the design, I asked around and the people that responded said the down tube should be roughly about 4 inches above the bottom of the boat. If 4 inches is close then, the down tube is correct. If 4 inches is wrong then oh well....looks like its too long. This is going on a tall transom boat. If the 4" mark is incorrect, please let me know how high the tube should be above the bottom of the boat.
Thanks!! :thumbsup:
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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby guywithhat » Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:23 am

if the tube is 4" from the bottom of the boat, where does that put the bottom of the chaincase..
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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby sftull » Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:31 am

The bottom of the chain case is 4" above the bottom of the boat. The drive shaft is about 2.5" above the bottom of the chain case. Its going on a 20" transom.

guy.... how far is your chain case above the bottom of your boat?
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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby guywithhat » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:18 am

mines about 2" from the bottom, it might be about 2.5 on a straight/vertical transom, but with the angle to the transom, it comes in at 2, and the bottom of the bar/tube is 2" from the bottom. the bottom of my chain case is a flat bottom V, to minimize the amount of metal in the water... well to minimize drag when I start moving. at a stand still the chain case sits in the water maybe an inch or so...
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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby harryhyde » Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:29 pm

sftull wrote:Nothing has been tightened down, just fitting everything together.
Image

:


Hey sftull, that is looking great. I have one suggestion, to look out for. Is the belt housing reinforced at all where the 2 eye bolts attach? I'm sure the bolts are strong enough, but the aluminum is pretty soft to take the weight of entire engine. You might find it will deform under use. It might just be easier to go ahead and weld a 2" wide by 1/4" thick strap across the box where each of those bolts attach, before you get it too far built up.
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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby sftull » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:20 pm

Hey sftull, that is looking great. I have one suggestion, to look out for. Is the belt housing reinforced at all where the 2 eye bolts attach? I'm sure the bolts are strong enough, but the aluminum is pretty soft to take the weight of entire engine. You might find it will deform under use. It might just be easier to go ahead and weld a 2" wide by 1/4" thick strap across the box where each of those bolts attach, before you get it too far built up.


Harry, Thanks for the advice. I have large washers on the outside and inside but a 1/4" plate would probably be alot stronger.
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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby harryhyde » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:52 pm

An even simpler idea, which would eliminate extra welding, would be to make a "washer plate" out of 1/4" or 3/16" steel, thats maybe 2" tall, and the same width as the belt housing. It could just be held in place by the eye bolt.

I just noticed this right away because something similar happened to me on my first build. There is a surprising amount of force on the lower attach point, because of the prop thrust times the leverage of the housing. It bent my housing forward pretty good in just a few hours use, and it was only a 3-ish horsepower engine.

I will check in on this thread a little more now, I kind of lost focus when our duck season ended, and our water is now suitable for the operation of trucks, etc.
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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby kansasduckler » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:36 am

i am also curios where my "tube" needs to be. im building a surface drive but i am doing mine all out of steel unless thats not a good idea. will it be to heavy? im thinking of doing it out of 1/8'' thick with 3/16 for the motor mount and heavy stress areas. what weight should i be shooting for on an 18hp? i dont really want to do it our of aluminum cuz its kinda weak and welding it can make it warpe. i tig and mig .i have lasers plazma cutters cnc machining etc. so i am doing everything from scratch. i am going to make my belt housing from one piece and break it and just have four seems to weld. anyone think that 1/8'' is too thin or to heavy? here is my design so far. let me know what you think. so far i have the transom mount done. waiting on the motor to start taking hole patterns.
Attachments
motor numero 2.png
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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby kansasduckler » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:39 am

here is a picture of my transom mount i think its a pretty good one. simple and works
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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby Griffin4590 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:01 am

update????!!!!
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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby sftull » Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:35 am

kansasduckler have you started a thread on your build? If not, you might find it easier to get answers to your questions. I have found that posting one's build on other people's threads doesn't have good results when it comes to getting answers.

**Update** :thumbsup:

Last weekend, I went to MS to visit my family and my Dad has an 17hp Cub Cadet mower that he doesn't use anymore. I took the clutch off of it and brought it back with me. I haven't had much time to machine any parts b/c I busted one of its little drive gears on my lathe while making the prop end bearing housing. I purchased a new 9x19 lathe and have been working trying to get everything setup. If I get my quick change tool post installed by this weekend, I will be back making parts.

After I get this project finished, I will post details of all parts used and where I got them, as well as performance results. I will not post detailed design measurements since parts need to be machined. If anyone decides to build one, you will be responsible for designing the housings around the parts.
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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby eljefe » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:06 am

16 horse? You will be going slow with gear and another person.... you are better off buying a used long tail with some hp. My old 23 would run 18 mph with gear and other hunter. My 36 Prodrive will do 25 mph with the same load. I think maybe on a small boat and no one else with you you might get 18 mph if you are lucky.
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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby kansasduckler » Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:24 pm

sftull i will do that. right now everything is in the planning stage as far as the motor goes. my wife is having our first baby on saturday so i dunno how much time ill have from now on but as soon as i start i will start my own thread
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Re: Surface Drive Build

Postby sftull » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:50 am

***Update***

I finally got the lathe setup and back to machining. I hope to knock out the prop end bearing cup over the weekend. I will post pics of my progress.
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