Boat help!

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Boat help!

Postby rdy2spry » Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:53 am

Can anyone tell me what this would be called attached to the back of the boat? What would be the advantages and disadvantages? Would this be the same idea as floatation pods? Thanks,
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Re: Boat help!

Postby marktank » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:26 am

It's a hunt deck. Has multiple uses. I like mine for the dog getting back in the boat and for me getting back in the boat too.
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Re: Boat help!

Postby rdy2spry » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:29 am

Im planning on making one. Any suggestions for designing and installing one? Thanks.

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Re: Boat help!

Postby QuackerSmacker498 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:44 am

They are great for keeping water out of the back of the boat on fast decelerations. A step to get inside the boat from the transom. If you sealed it like a POD, it would be one hell of a form of flotation. It automatically forces the weight in the boat forward giving a better ride and easier planing. ETC.
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Re: Boat help!

Postby Rhock19 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:24 pm

I added one on my lowe boat. all in all its a cool looking boat "extension." works awesome for keeping the motor out of the inside of the boat and a great step and peeing area. it is differemt than float pods because the motor actually attaches to it, float pods distribute weight behknd the motor giving more lift, hunt decks do not, they displace water the same as a standard hull does
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Re: Boat help!

Postby Delta1389 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:13 pm

A true hunt deck adds ZERO flotation to the hull. The motor is in the same place it would normally be you just have a deck in front of it. If you were to add a hunt deck and have the engine mounted on the transom of the boat and not the hunt deck then it would add great rearward flotation. You add 15"-20" or surface area rearward of the heavy engine and lift the back of the boat up at idle and plane. It would cause the boat to draft shallower because it would ride flatter. I have considered doing this for my longtail but haven't decided if I want to guinea pig myself with it. It would be hard if not impossible to do with an outboard or surface drive. I think cottonmouth custom boats has do e something as close as would be possible to it though.
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Re: Boat help!

Postby rdy2spry » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:43 am

So it is safe to say it wont add stability to the boat? I have a 1448 semi v. I just want to add more stability, and help add more flotation, and it seems pods are the best route.
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Re: Boat help!

Postby mudpack » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:55 am

rdy2spry wrote:So it is safe to say it wont add stability to the boat?

Stability in what respect? Axial stability (roll)? Very little. Stability in pitch(porposing)? Yes, significant.

Basically, what adding the extention does is make the boat into a longer boat, with all the advantages and disadvantages that entails.
I.e. it makes a 14foot boat into a 15.5foot boat, albeit without the increased interior space......
Although, with a longtail, it would open up the space in the 14foot portion somewhat. :thumbsup:

The first picture seems to be not an added extension, but rather a cut-away of the transom....no adding on of boat length as with Rhocks' boat. It's just cutting a "step" into the rear of the boat. Other than aiding boat ingress and egress, I can see no advantages and several disadvantages to doing this.
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Re: Boat help!

Postby rdy2spry » Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:06 am

I find my stern sits low in the water. I have a 9.9 johnson on it now. I want try and keep the stern higher if possible. My plan is to make the boat 'huntable' for this season and next add a short tail. I just dont think the funds are there this year for both. That being said, i want to prep the boat for the short tail next year. I dont want to have to do major fabrication next year. I am already reinforcing the transom with some 1/8" square tubing. Im relocating my gas tank and battry to the bow section to help. It seems the hunt deck would be the best idea for the short tail next year.
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Re: Boat help!

Postby T Man » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:21 pm

Delta1389 wrote:A true hunt deck adds ZERO flotation to the hull. The motor is in the same place it would normally be you just have a deck in front of it. If you were to add a hunt deck and have the engine mounted on the transom of the boat and not the hunt deck then it would add great rearward flotation. You add 15"-20" or surface area rearward of the heavy engine and lift the back of the boat up at idle and plane. It would cause the boat to draft shallower because it would ride flatter. I have considered doing this for my longtail but haven't decided if I want to guinea pig myself with it. It would be hard if not impossible to do with an outboard or surface drive. I think cottonmouth custom boats has do e something as close as would be possible to it though.


How does increased displacement not equate to more "flotation"
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Re: Boat help!

Postby Rhock19 » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:26 pm

it doesn't, but what i believe he is saying is that a hunt deck does not offset motor weight like float pods do.
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Re: Boat help!

Postby Delta1389 » Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:32 pm

T Man wrote:
Delta1389 wrote:A true hunt deck adds ZERO flotation to the hull. The motor is in the same place it would normally be you just have a deck in front of it. If you were to add a hunt deck and have the engine mounted on the transom of the boat and not the hunt deck then it would add great rearward flotation. You add 15"-20" or surface area rearward of the heavy engine and lift the back of the boat up at idle and plane. It would cause the boat to draft shallower because it would ride flatter. I have considered doing this for my longtail but haven't decided if I want to guinea pig myself with it. It would be hard if not impossible to do with an outboard or surface drive. I think cottonmouth custom boats has do e something as close as would be possible to it though.


How does increased displacement not equate to more "flotation"


If you have an 18' boat with a standard transom and an 18' boat with a huntdeck they are still both 18' boats and have the same displacement. When adding pods or a "huntdeck" rearward of the motor you are adding surface area behind the motor. So now you boat is 18' plus 15"-20" behind the motor.
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Re: Boat help!

Postby goosie119 » Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:04 pm

I'd save your money and limp through this season with what you got. A small mod v with a surface drive will perform like crap, so adding a hunt deck is a waste of money. Save your pennies and buy the boat you want from the start instead of cobbling stuff together, you'll be money ahead in the long run. That's my suggestion, but at the end of the day it's your cash to piss away how you see fit...
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Re: Boat help!

Postby mudpack » Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:34 pm

goosie119 wrote: A small mod v with a surface drive will perform like crap,..


In what way?
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Re: Boat help!

Postby Delta1389 » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:13 pm

mudpack wrote:
goosie119 wrote: A small mod v with a surface drive will perform like crap,..


In what way?


A true flat will always out perform a mod hull. The v in the hull doesn't displace water as well as a true flat and drafts more water.
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Re: Boat help!

Postby T Man » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:45 am

Delta1389 wrote:
mudpack wrote:
goosie119 wrote: A small mod v with a surface drive will perform like crap,..


In what way?


A true flat will always out perform a mod hull. The v in the hull doesn't displace water as well as a true flat and drafts more water.


You know a mod v has a flat bottom right?..
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Re: Boat help!

Postby goldfish » Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:32 am

T Man wrote:
Delta1389 wrote:
mudpack wrote:
goosie119 wrote: A small mod v with a surface drive will perform like crap,..


In what way?


A true flat will always out perform a mod hull. The v in the hull doesn't displace water as well as a true flat and drafts more water.


You know a mod v has a flat bottom right?..

You need to quit injecting logic into this thread

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Re: Boat help!

Postby Delta1389 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:06 pm

T Man wrote:
Delta1389 wrote:
mudpack wrote:
goosie119 wrote: A small mod v with a surface drive will perform like crap,..


In what way?


A true flat will always out perform a mod hull. The v in the hull doesn't displace water as well as a true flat and drafts more water.


You know a mod v has a flat bottom right?..


I know my mod v hull is flat in the back 2/3 maybe. I have an outboard on it though. My mud boat is a true flat bottom. A mod v really will start hurting you with a mud motor when you start loading it down and that v gets in the water. Once that happens it's going to want to plow. So unless you always plan on running an empty or light load I would stick with the true flat.
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Re: Boat help!

Postby goosie119 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:35 pm

Small boats in general perform like crap as it is without hanging a 200+lb surface drive on the back. If you're gonna run a long tail go ahead and run the short narrow boat, it's gonna be slow and not carry a load no matter what you put on the back. The more flat surface area on the bottom of your hull the better off you'll be in shallow water mud and muck, everyone knows that. You could get away with a copperhead on a 16 footer, maybe a big block but even that's pushing it on a hull that length. Bigger is always better :wink:
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Re: Boat help!

Postby goldfish » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:45 pm

:shock:

Mod V are flat bottom Jon boats that have a pointed front. Semi V fishing boats (old alumacraft for example) have the v hull a good ways back, and aren't optimal for mud motors, but it can work.

A have no idea what the other of you are trying to say about big block motors on a small Jon boat

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Re: Boat help!

Postby T Man » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:34 pm

Delta1389 wrote:
T Man wrote:
Delta1389 wrote:
mudpack wrote:
goosie119 wrote: A small mod v with a surface drive will perform like crap,..


In what way?


A true flat will always out perform a mod hull. The v in the hull doesn't displace water as well as a true flat and drafts more water.


You know a mod v has a flat bottom right?..


I know my mod v hull is flat in the back 2/3 maybe. I have an outboard on it though. My mud boat is a true flat bottom. A mod v really will start hurting you with a mud motor when you start loading it down and that v gets in the water. Once that happens it's going to want to plow. So unless you always plan on running an empty or light load I would stick with the true flat.


???
Both boats will plow. By your argument the mod v should perform better because it is more hydrodynamically efficient.
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Re: Boat help!

Postby goosie119 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:55 pm

goldfish wrote:A have no idea what the other of you are trying to say about big block motors on a small Jon boat


You stupid or something boy? He won't be able to run a 35/36 horse Briggs (take your pick of manufacturer) on anything under 16', and even 16' is to short to be close to ideal. There's really no reason to run a small surface drive like the copperheads, a boat that small you might as well save a few pennies and run a damn longtail and be done with it, performance wise your gains will be minimal if any. :fingerhead:
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Re: Boat help!

Postby Delta1389 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:34 am

T Man wrote:
Delta1389 wrote:
T Man wrote:
Delta1389 wrote:
mudpack wrote:
goosie119 wrote: A small mod v with a surface drive will perform like crap,..


In what way?


A true flat will always out perform a mod hull. The v in the hull doesn't displace water as well as a true flat and drafts more water.


You know a mod v has a flat bottom right?..


I know my mod v hull is flat in the back 2/3 maybe. I have an outboard on it though. My mud boat is a true flat bottom. A mod v really will start hurting you with a mud motor when you start loading it down and that v gets in the water. Once that happens it's going to want to plow. So unless you always plan on running an empty or light load I would stick with the true flat.


???
Both boats will plow. By your argument the mod v should perform better because it is more hydrodynamically efficient.


I'm going to ask you a serious question and don't take it the wrong way. Have you ever been in BOTH types of boats with a mud motor on the back? Yes, ALL boats will plow if loaded down enough. A mod v will plow and want to just keep cutting water because of the v. A flat bottom will want to rise to the top. I'm telling you I've tried it. 25 hp gdlt on a 14 ft crawfish skiff, three men with all hunting gear full tank of gas, battery, 5 doz dekes, and the dog and she gets up on top granted that is an EXTREMELY heavy load for that boat and some weight proper weight distribution has to be done for the boat to get on plane but it backs my argument. Try loading my 1448 tracker grizzly powered by the same motor with that same load, forget it. Your gonna plow no matter how you try and distribute the weight. That sId I can put 4 grown men in that tracker with a 25 hp outboard on the back and she will get on plane and roll out no problem. More efficient use of hp by the outboard.
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Re: Boat help!

Postby T Man » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:22 am

goosie119 wrote:
goldfish wrote:A have no idea what the other of you are trying to say about big block motors on a small Jon boat


You stupid or something boy? He won't be able to run a 35/36 horse Briggs (take your pick of manufacturer) on anything under 16', and even 16' is to short to be close to ideal. There's really no reason to run a small surface drive like the copperheads, a boat that small you might as well save a few pennies and run a damn longtail and be done with it, performance wise your gains will be minimal if any. :fingerhead:


Calm down and lose the attitude or you will take a vacation.


Delta1389 wrote:
T Man wrote:
Delta1389 wrote:
T Man wrote:
Delta1389 wrote:
mudpack wrote:
goosie119 wrote: A small mod v with a surface drive will perform like crap,..


In what way?


A true flat will always out perform a mod hull. The v in the hull doesn't displace water as well as a true flat and drafts more water.


You know a mod v has a flat bottom right?..


I know my mod v hull is flat in the back 2/3 maybe. I have an outboard on it though. My mud boat is a true flat bottom. A mod v really will start hurting you with a mud motor when you start loading it down and that v gets in the water. Once that happens it's going to want to plow. So unless you always plan on running an empty or light load I would stick with the true flat.


???
Both boats will plow. By your argument the mod v should perform better because it is more hydrodynamically efficient.


I'm going to ask you a serious question and don't take it the wrong way. Have you ever been in BOTH types of boats with a mud motor on the back? Yes, ALL boats will plow if loaded down enough. A mod v will plow and want to just keep cutting water because of the v. A flat bottom will want to rise to the top. I'm telling you I've tried it. 25 hp gdlt on a 14 ft crawfish skiff, three men with all hunting gear full tank of gas, battery, 5 doz dekes, and the dog and she gets up on top granted that is an EXTREMELY heavy load for that boat and some weight proper weight distribution has to be done for the boat to get on plane but it backs my argument. Try loading my 1448 tracker grizzly powered by the same motor with that same load, forget it. Your gonna plow no matter how you try and distribute the weight. That sId I can put 4 grown men in that tracker with a 25 hp outboard on the back and she will get on plane and roll out no problem. More efficient use of hp by the outboard.


Good question to ask, and no, I haven't been on either. 99% of our water around here is better suited for Outboards so that's what we run
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