Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

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Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby mproffitt57 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:14 pm

I shot a group of full colored GW Teal this fall in Michigan on a once in a life time hunt. We rarely see full colored teal this far north. I took them to a taxidermist my buddy recommended only to end up with one of the worst jobs I have ever seen. Is there anything that can be done with these birds? If not I will not be picking them up or paying for them.

Please let me know what you guys think.

Thanks,

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Re: Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby sprigpig1 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:21 pm

I really do hate knocking other taxis work but that is pretty bad. We have been getting quite a few of these on here lately , and I think the general consensus has been if you are not satisfied, let it be apparently know to your taxi. Don't be afraid to hurt his feelings. I'm sure you paid/gonna pay good money for that mount. And you are the one who has to be roommates with that mount not your taxi. He only has to look at them for 2-3 weeks and after that he/she can't see them from his shop. Also, don't take anybody's word.. See their work for yourself.. Make sure there is a noticeable consistency and style with their work. Then make your decision.

As far as fixing them no not really, there are some guys out there that could re -hydrate them and make them look good again , but then your spending more money and finding someone who will take on such a task. If you are unsatisfied, tell him.. If you have a deposit.. Get it back.

This will probably be a lesson to them, to either produce a better bird or stop taking birds in until they can do quality work.

Hope this helps,
Brandon
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Re: Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby Duck Nasty » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:38 pm

Let it be known as Brandon said. At least you haven't picked then up yet
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Re: Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby beretta24 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:45 pm

I feel for you, but my opinion varies somewhat. If you didn't check this guy out some of the blames falls on you. You asked him to mount 3 birds. He did. If the work is consistent with his other work, and you didn't give him an example or expectation beyond that, you bear the brunt of the responsibility. It's not his job, regardless of how bad that looks, to guess at your expectations. There are some people that would be happy with that. I would be pissed, but I would have made my expectations known and checked his work.

However, if you gave him an example of what you wanted or if this doesn't look like the work he has on display you have a valid grievance. My two cents.
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Re: Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby The Waterfowler » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:51 pm

Well put Brandon. I agree it 100%.

It seems like this time of year there are posts of "Just got my bird back" and it's easy to see that the taxidermy is substandard. Why? Probably because they don't have many to do in the first place for obvious reasons. If this is his normal works looks like then you are partially to blame for leaving them there in the first place as this is honestly bottom of the barrel work. Did you even look at the work he had in his studio? I, personally, would be embarrassed to put my name on something like that much less show my friends my trophies and I am deeply sorry to see someone waste their money on this results. Problems with these are too many to list and you would be throwing good money after bad to even consider having someone try and fix them. The process of rehydrating them is way more time consuming and costly than actual mounting them. The good thing is that you said you haven't paid for them yet. In a word, DON'T. Hopefully the taxidermist will realize what a bad job he did. If not, tell him under no uncertain terms that his work is worse than bad and go shoot someone and take them to someone that does good work. You get what you pay for. Curious, if you don't mind, what was he charging you for that?
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Re: Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby beretta24 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:05 pm

If I were you I'd take the advice of guys the make a living in the field. I'm just a hobbyist getting started, but I look at like buying anything. If I buy sight unseen, and there's no misrepresentation on the part of a seller, its my fault.
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Re: Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby sprigpig1 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:48 pm

beretta24 wrote:If I were you I'd take the advice of guys the make a living in the field. I'm just a hobbyist getting started, but I look at like buying anything. If I buy sight unseen, and there's no misrepresentation on the part of a seller, its my fault.


Non- taxi, novice, hobbiest or world masters champion taxi.. Doesn't matter. They can spot a bad job when there is one. But your right if this work was consistent with what the taxidermist usually does then it's on the consumer I totally agree.
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Re: Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby duxrus » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:54 pm

Like I said in another one of these....this wasn't just a product of him having a bad day. Those very well could be someone's first, second, and third birds so your buddy who sent you their should be punched right after you hit yourself for relying on someone else's opinion. Would you buy a car sight unseen if a friend said it was a good one ?

As far as payment I personally would voice my severe disappointment on such shoty work and go from there. No one should expect payment for that. If they don't have a clue how to mount a duck then they shore as heck shouldn't accept one.
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Re: Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby MasonG » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:41 pm

Yeah the mounts don't look good.

But if you didn't check out his work first then most of the blame is on you. Don't take someone's word for it. And if that's the case, tell him you're not happy with the mount and do not want it and don't want to pay the rest for it but don't ask for your deposit back because of the fact that if that's his normal quality then he didn't really do anything wrong. But don't expect to get your birds back then either.

BUT if you were mislead or lied to by him or shown mounts of much better quality then it's not really your fault. In that case you should ask for your deposit back, don't take the mounts and move on and find yourself a better taxidermist and when anyone asks about your experience with the guy, tell them the truth.

Also, don't be afraid to pay more for a better quality mount from a well-known taxidermist. It's always worth it in the long run.
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Re: Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby cotinga » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:59 pm

Mproffitt57 what did you hope to gain by posting the pictures? You are obviously unhappy with the work so you don't go back to that guy in the future. I do get a laugh out of the guys saying "dont' pay" or "get your deposit back" etc. If the taxidermist has the paperwork that he should have on your birds and you decide "not to pay" he can take you to small claims court and you will lose every time. May be in your best interest to just pay the man and move on.
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Re: Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby sprigpig1 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:56 pm

cotinga wrote:Mproffitt57 what did you hope to gain by posting the pictures? You are obviously unhappy with the work so you don't go back to that guy in the future. I do get a laugh out of the guys saying "dont' pay" or "get your deposit back" etc. If the taxidermist has the paperwork that he should have on your birds and you decide "not to pay" he can take you to small claims court and you will lose every time. May be in your best interest to just pay the man and move on.


Well, It's a taxidermy forum :thumbsup: so birds... Either bad, good, excellent, dead, alive, squatting, shotty, spotty or gotty are welcome on this forum. He was posting seeing what his options were. And probably being pro active by posting pictures being that with the content of the post, pictures would probably be requested by forum members to give an honest opinion.

There are still factors involved wether the original poster knew the quality of the taxidermists work or not. Yeah if he did not do his research then yeah it's on him as far as wasting "trophy" birds on this taxi. But as far as getting his deposit back.. Could be tough ( if there even was a deposit) I think taxi should do the right thing and give deposit back. But I doubt the taxidermist could win in court if balance was not paid. Because the goods and services never left his shop and money never exchanged hands after work was completed due to unsatisfactory and possibly un-hygienic work.

And in this industry, I doubt taxi had a "all sales final" clause or a "no refunds" clause in his paperwork. Maybe he does, I don't know..I can only speculate. This is a specialized industry, so satisfied customers pay the bills not civil loop holes..ie; contracts handcuffing your customers to pay you for your work if it's not what they want. If they are not happy .. You make it up to them anyway possible (within reason) not threaten them with litigation. I understand the need for our small claims court system but in my opinion this would be abusing it.

No need wasting beurocratic time.. When taxi keeps the deposit( again if there was one) that's on consumer for not doing his homework. Consumer does not pay taxi balance.. That's on the taxi for not meeting customer standard and it's a wash. Well kind of...The consumer also walks away educated to be more picky next time and taxidermist loses a lot of business due to a ripple effect of negative word of mouth which is his best advertising tool.

I would really love to hear from some of our business guys on this..Brian? Pat?

Did you mount these birds? J/k :biggrin:
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Re: Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby cotinga » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:37 am

sprig,
Perhaps you should re-read my initial response without injecting opinion and view it from a reality based standpoint? If the facts are as the OP stated then yes he could be taken to claims court and yes he would lose. If the taxidermist would choose to pursue the matter is up to him and not the actual customer.

The following seem to be the actual facts---please correct me if I am in error.

1. This guy with the ducks--we will call him Bob---takes them to a taxidermist who we will call Tom.

2. Bob agrees to pay Tom for the SERVICE of mounting the ducks.

3. Tom performs the SERVICE of mounting the ducks.

4. Bob says I don't like them and I'm not paying for the mounting SERVICE (plus some guys on the internet told me not to pay)

The following is at the discretion of Tom not Bob.

5. Tom takes Bob to court and wins---the judge brings up that pesky little thing known as "theft of SERVICES".

6. Bob either pays for his ugly ducklings or can face further legal action.

Perhaps you would be kind enough to at least cover Bob's legal expenses? I mean it was internet advice that got him into court in the first place. It would be the right thing to do don't you think?

As I said originally Bob would be further ahead to pay Tom and move on---the best lessons in life usually cost us something, that way they are not easily forgotten.
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Re: Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby sprigpig1 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:53 am

Lol oh I read your response.. And I still stand behind my " injected" opinion. So if I take my car in to get my oil changed and those wing nuts leave off my oil filter, scratch my car to hell and drop a socket down the oil fill tube. Do I still owe them for "services "???

According to your gorilla law I do..

You stated your opinion.. And it's duly noted. I stated mine. Let's Move on. :biggrin:
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Re: Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby Pete-pec » Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:04 pm

Personally speaking, I'm like Cotinga when it comes to getting a raw deal. With that said, I would not accept the birds as is, and he would keep his deposit as well as the birds. I have seen a few cases settled in court, where the disappointed customer not only got a full refund, but got damages in the form of money because of bad taxidermy, and the inability to replace the specimens. Waterfowl could certainly be different?

I'm not the type to do that, and would move on, but I also would not be taking those birds home. Lesson learned. Unfortunately, we will see this same thing played out more often than it should. In my opinion, the customer takes all responsibility if he saw his work and it was similar, or went with the taxidermist sight unseen.
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Re: Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby sprigpig1 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:13 pm

Actually one more thing Cotinga... What if it were Bob Sloan, would you feel the same way?
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Re: Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby Pete-pec » Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:25 pm

A better question would be this: What if bob is the taxidermist instead of Tom, and Bob was Bob Sloan? LOL

Oh someone has done their research.

I will speak for cotinga on this one. As long as we all can agree that bobby is a puke, we can end this debate. The customer needs to take some responsiblity......unless you're dealing with bluezman57! Then game on! :wink:
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Re: Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby cotinga » Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:52 pm

sprig,
You may have read my reply but you obviously did not understand what you were reading. And yes, your reply is nothing more than opinion and conjecture.

sprigpig1 wrote:So if I take my car in to get my oil changed and those wing nuts leave off my oil filter, scratch my car to hell and drop a socket down the oil fill tube. Do I still owe them for "services "???


The above proves my point exactly. You attempting to compare taxidermy with an oil change is laughable at best.

The FACTS are undeniable no matter how you try to convince anyone otherwise.

The FACT is that taxidermy "industry" "standards" do not exist in the legal sense. It is all "opinion". For all you know that taxidermist has hundreds of "satisfied' customers who are quite happy with his work. Your "opinion" is the work is legally meaningless. I am talking about the legal definition of services and the theft thereof. If you cannot understand that--quite frankly that is not my problem. You should get used to "gorilla" law I guess --lol.

If you think that customers are not taken to court by taxidermists everyday of the week for failure to pay--for whatever reason--you are sadly mistaken. These days it is easier than ever to prove in court that those "standards" that you keep bringing up in fact do not exist. The FACT is that the SERVICE was indeed provided and that the customer does not want to pay for "services rendered". Therefore the taxidermist is within his/her legal rights to collect monies due by legal action if necessary.

You are certainly entitled to have whatever opinion that you wish---however you might want to research the difference between 'opinion' and "fact"----it might come in handy sometime.

As a disclaimer--I personally do not care what happens with this situation. I don't care if Bob and Tom work things out or not. Bob didn't care enough to do any research. Tom---who knows maybe thats the best work that he is capable of---once again I do not care. My initial comments were directed at the OP and you felt that it was necessary to disagree. Once again I really don't care if you agree with the facts or not. Its easy enough for anyone to research how the laws work concerning this. Taxidermy is considered a "service" and the works produced are an "individual interpretation" of an object that in and of itself has no absolute standard of appearance.

For those that are capable of understanding such things that is the only explanation that is necessary. For those who currently do not understand the concept perhaps some education would be in order with the benefits of not only expanding one's own base of knowledge but of also enjoying the business aspects that the laws provide?
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Re: Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby beretta24 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:57 pm

Are Tom and Bob a couple? All this internet ping pong has me confused.
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Re: Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby Pete-pec » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:03 pm

Okay, please move on people. Not even worth the discussion any longer.

This is my opinion. LOL
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Re: Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby sprigpig1 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:43 pm

With all do respect Pete...

Ok so I'll will take a new tact..to clear the waters

The facts... I think everybody can agree customer should have done better research, birds are under par, we can all speculate what could become of this wether it goes to court or not, outcome could very from state to state, customer will probably do better research from here out... I think that sums it up.

Cotinga I let you take your shots and I left this thread non insulting... I expect yours to be the same if you have anything further.
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Re: Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby duxrus » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:22 pm

Would be an unwise decesion to sue someone over horrible work.... Period.
1) the taxidermist knows his birds are crap...if it was a specimen condition issue then the customer should have been contacted before doing the work
2) time in court is time not getting work done (simple math of loosing a day's worth of work time)
3) unhappy clients can cost you WAY more than their balance by simple word of mouth not to mention via Facebook, BBB reports, hunting forums , etc

Business 101 is to make/keep the customer happy.

There again people who are putting out crapy work just to make money don't have much business sense or plain personal character....

If someone was contracted to paint your house off of Craigslist and did a horrible job would you pay the balance ? I bet not since we are comparing services to services . You could sue them just as much as they could sue you. At some point there is a thing called personal integrity so fighting with an unhappy client over a mount like that would show little of that.

Taxidermists who always say "Pay" no matter what the quality of the mount always make me cringe. When they also add "SUE" the customer that kinda makes one think they have had to go down this path more than once on their own products and unhappy cutomers... :fingerpt:
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Re: Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby cotinga » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:07 pm

Pete,
In all seriousness---what is worth talking about? Its hilarious that guys whine about not being taken seriously as an "industry" when they are themselves to blame. You don't do taxidermy for a living so let me clue you in---taxidermists in general do more to destroy the "professionalism" than all of the customers combined. Guys would rather talk for days on end about "competition" techniques than to have the seemingly uncomfortable conversation about actual business practices, raising prices, becoming more efficient with work time, etc. If you take the question as a personal attack that is up to you---it is meant as a question---and its a valid one. Did you ever stop to wonder why you see a lack of contribution from "industry" recognized names on taxidermy forums? Isn't this thread a perfect example? I get that the OP is upset---him being upset won't change what happened. Then you have those who say "don't pay", some of whom provide taxidermy services for money.

If that isn't an unprofessional response I don't know what is.

I bring up the legal ramifications of not paying and now I'm to blame---of course its from those who don't know how the system works though. So the pseudo experts are free to run unchecked through forum land while the vast majority of those who could meaningfully contribute decide that its simply not worth the trouble to post----the time could be better spent playing cards or going fishing---and they don't have to read the replies of the uninformed and the uneducated. Where are the "industry" supply reps on the forums? Mostly absent. How about guys that run/own shops that actually make decent amounts of money? Almost totally absent. You get the picture right? They have way more to offer you than you could ever offer them. The lack of professionalism keeps them away---and they sell the same number of deer forms or they mount the same number of life sized animals and make the money----while the forum warriors do whatever it is that they do. Other "industries" do not suffer nearly the same amount of nonsense that taxidermy does and as a result the amount of information that is available from recognized experts is quite ample.

sprig,
You are the one that started in on this right? I addressed the OP, not you, and I did not break any forum rules in doing so. Then you get bent because I reply again and don't agree with you. Do the forum rules state that I must agree with you? Or are moderators supposed to expect that their personal opinions are to be taken as fact? Perhaps before writing that I am "taking shots at you', you should look up the definition of an internet forum moderator apply it to yourself and act accordingly. I mean you did want to be a moderator right? So now that you are one will you take the opportunity to be a part of an improvement or just perpetuate a problem? Again I truly do not care what you do as your behavior will absolutely not have any impact on my life---as I'm sure that you can tell that I have no "need" to post on this forum on any sort of regular basis.

As to the question about would it make any difference if it was bob sloan---why would it make a difference? If a car thief mounts some ducks for me am I exempt from paying for the ducks? Legally I still must pay him for the mounting service. If you don't understand that principle that is simply your problem and does not change the legal obligation of payment.

Also if you are going to bring sloan up at least do it in the proper context. As I correctly recall I was the one who quite simply alerted this forum as to the identity of bluesman. Interestingly enough I was then verbally attacked of course by sloan but also by some of DHC esteemed "moderators". So tell me again----how did all of that work out for ya???? LOL.

I even received a message from a moderator---don't know which one because they didn't even have the guts to sign the message---that my account was temp. suspended because I had the nerve to "call bob out". Very telling behavior don't you think?
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Re: Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby duxrus » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:17 pm

So it is great for the profession that someone does a horrible job at preserving someone's trophy and isn't willing to try to make said customer happy and feels they deserve the money since they did attrempt it ? Is $ more important that integrity ? You didn't respond to my last post showing how "suing" is far from the smartest route if a customer is upset about the product you hand them. You can walk right up to a bee hive and collect honey but doesn't make it very smart...
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Re: Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby Pete-pec » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:26 pm

What you directed to me personally, I can agree.

Bob? No one knows that back story as well as you and I perhaps?

For the mod that gave you a time out? I cannot speak for him. For myself, I would eject 90% Of the people that are just simply stupid or argumentative. Not my forum, nor my rules. I'm not talking about people who disagree, but instead, people WHO ONLY disagree, otherwise adding nothing of worth. And that is strictly my opinion. I can easily ignore those people, but I would just assume they take their pent up aggresion elsewhere. I like this forum. It happens to be a good bunch of people.
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Re: Bad Taxidermy... Can it be Fixed

Postby sprigpig1 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:47 pm

Cotinga- I started in clarifying why OP might want to post pics along with his story that you were so against. That's how you started your post. Everything after that was just opinion and I never got "bent" for you not agreeing with me. I have enough people agreeing with me already. People that have a moral compass that points north. Yours obviously points south. I even acknowledged your opinion and on two occasions asked you to move on.. Let's find clarity with the differences of opinion. We all don't have to agree , but let's find a common ground on what we do agree on! So if that's not trying to be diplomatic I don't know what is. But I'm over that because now you are obviously arguing just to argue and I am done with you. You are a habitual instigator, arguer and a child who needs to learn how to get along. Anyone can see that if they read your prior posts. Your crying that everybody is mad because you don't agree with them, when obviously it's quite the opposite.. And anyone reading this post could tell that. Now, come back at me with some obscure put down about the "industry " or your law degree you bought at k- mart. You are obviously a very litigious person who believes in suing every person you know, when the rest of us try and find resolve before litigation. Now if you don't mind.. Some of us have a life to get back too.

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