Looking for a new call

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Looking for a new call

Postby goldfish » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:18 pm

I was at game fair today trying to find a new call. I tried DRC, big Sean, field proven... Can't remember the others. I liked the DRC the best but it still wasn't the right sound for me. Field Hudnall was more than willing to go thru everything and unfortunately he had only one of his deepest call, and it was sold so i couldn't try it (he even worked over the guts in a different call to get it lower, but at that point I couldn't get more than 1 tone out of it), and everyone else was kinda stroking their ego and not too much help. None that I could try I could get a lower tone like I want. Most sounded the same, but not goosey. They were all competition like.

I've currently got a die hard apostle from C&S, and compared to all the calls I tried today, that's a hard call to run. It works for now, so it's not like I'm out a call, but something easier to run would be better for me. I won't compromise the sound tho. Obviously, everyone is different, but does anyone have a call that's deeper than the standard, and how would I go about trying one?
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Looking for a new call

Postby Gizzle86 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:47 pm

These call are Canada calls? Never heard of em I'm guessing that's y.
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Re: Looking for a new call

Postby goosehunter64 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:53 pm

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Looking for a new call

Postby goldfish » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:23 pm

Yes gizzle, sorry bout that. Canada calls. We barely have anything else so I forget there are other geese, lol.

Are winglock calls in any stores?
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Re: Looking for a new call

Postby goosehunter64 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:35 am

If you have a Dicks Sporting Goods store...no not really. There are many Winglock owners on here...and they can attest to the C/S and the product. With that said..they don't fit or are not everyones cup of tea. Being the delrin and walnut calls are fairly inexpensive..but with high quality materials, looks and sound.
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Re: Looking for a new call

Postby tripleb » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:07 am

goldfish wrote:I was at game fair today trying to find a new call. I tried DRC, big Sean, field proven... Can't remember the others. I liked the DRC the best but it still wasn't the right sound for me. Field Hudnall was more than willing to go thru everything and unfortunately he had only one of his deepest call, and it was sold so i couldn't try it (he even worked over the guts in a different call to get it lower, but at that point I couldn't get more than 1 tone out of it), and everyone else was kinda stroking their ego and not too much help. None that I could try I could get a lower tone like I want. Most sounded the same, but not goosey. They were all competition like.

I've currently got a die hard apostle from C&S, and compared to all the calls I tried today, that's a hard call to run. It works for now, so it's not like I'm out a call, but something easier to run would be better for me. I won't compromise the sound tho. Obviously, everyone is different, but does anyone have a call that's deeper than the standard, and how would I go about trying one?


Most of the geese you will hear while hunting are high pitched ... not low pitched. If real geese aren't readily available to listen to at this point, listen to the real geese calling on any of the DVD's showing hunting by any of the champion goose callers. They're high pitched .... for the most part when excited. If you're wanting a call for hunting purposes, rather than for contest calling, you're probably better off with a higher pitched call.

Listen to the opening sequences of the geese calling on this website. What do you hear for the most part from the geese, other than the moans? ..... High pitched calling.

http://www.bigseanscalls.com/

If you're wanting a call for contest calling, you want a deeper sounding call. Those are usually longer calls, though a few shorter calls can be low pitched, too.
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Looking for a new call

Postby goldfish » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:32 am

I should mention most my hunting will be over water too.
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Re: Looking for a new call

Postby Trevor Shannahan » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:41 am

tripleb wrote:
goldfish wrote:I was at game fair today trying to find a new call. I tried DRC, big Sean, field proven... Can't remember the others. I liked the DRC the best but it still wasn't the right sound for me. Field Hudnall was more than willing to go thru everything and unfortunately he had only one of his deepest call, and it was sold so i couldn't try it (he even worked over the guts in a different call to get it lower, but at that point I couldn't get more than 1 tone out of it), and everyone else was kinda stroking their ego and not too much help. None that I could try I could get a lower tone like I want. Most sounded the same, but not goosey. They were all competition like.

I've currently got a die hard apostle from C&S, and compared to all the calls I tried today, that's a hard call to run. It works for now, so it's not like I'm out a call, but something easier to run would be better for me. I won't compromise the sound tho. Obviously, everyone is different, but does anyone have a call that's deeper than the standard, and how would I go about trying one?


Most of the geese you will hear while hunting are high pitched ... not low pitched. If real geese aren't readily available to listen to at this point, listen to the real geese calling on any of the DVD's showing hunting by any of the champion goose callers. They're high pitched .... for the most part when excited. If you're wanting a call for hunting purposes, rather than for contest calling, you're probably better off with a higher pitched call.

Listen to the opening sequences of the geese calling on this website. What do you hear for the most part from the geese, other than the moans? ..... High pitched calling.

http://www.bigseanscalls.com/

If you're wanting a call for contest calling, you want a deeper sounding call. Those are usually longer calls, though a few shorter calls can be low pitched, too.

Exactly what I was thinking, deep is pleasing to the human ear, but really isn't natural sounding to geese. A comp call is generally going to be deeper than any bird you hear. If you were impressed with the way Field treated you get him to tune up a Matrix or Raptor for you and just use it regardless of whether you think it is too high pitched or not, they ARE one of the goosiest, realistic, and easiest to use calls on the market
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Looking for a new call

Postby goldfish » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:00 pm

The Raptor was the one I ended up only being able to get one note out of, and the matrix just... I dunno. Something about it just wasn't "the one" to drop that much money for.

Maybe I'm too picky. I dunno. The hunt for the perfect call continues.
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Re: Looking for a new call

Postby Trevor Shannahan » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:23 pm

goldfish wrote:The Raptor was the one I ended up only being able to get one note out of, and the matrix just... I dunno. Something about it just wasn't "the one" to drop that much money for.

Maybe I'm too picky. I dunno. The hunt for the perfect call continues.

Like I said, everybody has their own opinion, but here is the raptor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYrMthg0 ... ata_player

Great call with very good range high to low. I personally would tune this call slightly higher pitched than it is for hunting because it is a little too low pitched for my taste.
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Looking for a new call

Postby goldfish » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:49 pm

Is his Polly really $30? He must have only had acrylic and wood at the fair, because if I recall they were $130+.
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Re: Looking for a new call

Postby Marcus Riley » Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:56 am

I love my Powerhouse for a few reasons and getting super low end soft hollow sounds is one of them. I also like it because it has a nice volume range and killer crack and speed ...really it does everything we need when we hunt over water and ice. Get ahold of mark at Gander Valley Calls and ask him to run one for you over the phone. Might also ask him about his Hybrid.
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Re: Looking for a new call

Postby goosehunter64 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:30 am

Gary also makes some super calls...check them out. Along with awesome C/S
http://www.committedcustomcalls.com/
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Re: Looking for a new call

Postby DMBgoosehunter13 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:33 am

goldfish wrote:Is his Polly really $30? He must have only had acrylic and wood at the fair, because if I recall they were $130+.

Yeah $30.00 and well worth it!
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Re: Looking for a new call

Postby Gunnysway » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:53 am

Have you ever re-tuned the Apostle? That would be the easiest fix. If you need help, I'm in the north metro and would find a few minutes to help you work it out.

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Looking for a new call

Postby goldfish » Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:59 pm

Gunnysway wrote:Have you ever re-tuned the Apostle? That would be the easiest fix. If you need help, I'm in the north metro and would find a few minutes to help you work it out.

Gunny


I think it's a matter of design with how much air it takes to run, but I also don't know what I'm doing with a call so who knows, lol.
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Re: Looking for a new call

Postby tripleb » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:01 am

goldfish wrote:
Gunnysway wrote:Have you ever re-tuned the Apostle? That would be the easiest fix. If you need help, I'm in the north metro and would find a few minutes to help you work it out.

Gunny


I think it's a matter of design with how much air it takes to run, but I also don't know what I'm doing with a call so who knows, lol.


The Apostle ought to be very easy to run .... considering the air required. But, it is so sensitive to changes in back pressure (controlled by your hands) that it's a bit of a challenge to many callers. Start out trying to find a hand position where you can get a good sounding honk. It may take some experimentation to do that. Once you find the right hand position to make a good honk, try picking up the call and blowing a note .... put down the call ... pick it back up ..... blow a note, etc., to establish muscle memory. If you do it often enough, you should be able to do it with your eyes closed. Then, try moving your fingers a little as you increase or decrease air pressure into the call. That will change the notes up or down in pitch. Remember how much or how little it took to change pitches so you can practice repeating them. It takes very little change in hand/finger position to change note pitches with the Apostle ..... I can move my off hand pinky finger 1/8" and change note pitches. That feature is what makes the Apostle so fast ... but time consuming to learn.
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Re: Looking for a new call

Postby Gunnysway » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:51 am

goldfish wrote:
Gunnysway wrote:Have you ever re-tuned the Apostle? That would be the easiest fix. If you need help, I'm in the north metro and would find a few minutes to help you work it out.

Gunny


I think it's a matter of design with how much air it takes to run, but I also don't know what I'm doing with a call so who knows, lol.



I will then second looking at winglock. I have a whisperer in hedge and love it. It is a quieter call that I only use on water. The long neck is a bit louder and deeper in sound from the shop but that can be adjusted. They have walnut calls, both the long neck and whisperer for $50 and the CS is second to none. They do not take much air to run at all. My 5 soon to be 6 year old God son can make it crack over. Sounds like he steped on a cats tail, but he can get it to turn over. (we are working on his calling this year with my whisperer and a poly Zink pc-1...)

I hope this helped, and my offer still stands...


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Re: Looking for a new call

Postby Trevor Shannahan » Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:01 am

tripleb wrote:
goldfish wrote:
Gunnysway wrote:Have you ever re-tuned the Apostle? That would be the easiest fix. If you need help, I'm in the north metro and would find a few minutes to help you work it out.

Gunny


I think it's a matter of design with how much air it takes to run, but I also don't know what I'm doing with a call so who knows, lol.


The Apostle ought to be very easy to run .... considering the air required. But, it is so sensitive to changes in back pressure (controlled by your hands) that it's a bit of a challenge to many callers. Start out trying to find a hand position where you can get a good sounding honk. It may take some experimentation to do that. Once you find the right hand position to make a good honk, try picking up the call and blowing a note .... put down the call ... pick it back up ..... blow a note, etc., to establish muscle memory. If you do it often enough, you should be able to do it with your eyes closed. Then, try moving your fingers a little as you increase or decrease air pressure into the call. That will change the notes up or down in pitch. Remember how much or how little it took to change pitches so you can practice repeating them. It takes very little change in hand/finger position to change note pitches with the Apostle ..... I can move my off hand pinky finger 1/8" and change note pitches. That feature is what makes the Apostle so fast ... but time consuming to learn.

It's a pretty tough call to blow. Those guts take a lot of air to run, and 3/4" barrels take a lot of air to fill.
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Re: Looking for a new call

Postby DMBgoosehunter13 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:05 am

Trevor Shannahan wrote:
tripleb wrote:
goldfish wrote:
Gunnysway wrote:Have you ever re-tuned the Apostle? That would be the easiest fix. If you need help, I'm in the north metro and would find a few minutes to help you work it out.

Gunny


I think it's a matter of design with how much air it takes to run, but I also don't know what I'm doing with a call so who knows, lol.


The Apostle ought to be very easy to run .... considering the air required. But, it is so sensitive to changes in back pressure (controlled by your hands) that it's a bit of a challenge to many callers. Start out trying to find a hand position where you can get a good sounding honk. It may take some experimentation to do that. Once you find the right hand position to make a good honk, try picking up the call and blowing a note .... put down the call ... pick it back up ..... blow a note, etc., to establish muscle memory. If you do it often enough, you should be able to do it with your eyes closed. Then, try moving your fingers a little as you increase or decrease air pressure into the call. That will change the notes up or down in pitch. Remember how much or how little it took to change pitches so you can practice repeating them. It takes very little change in hand/finger position to change note pitches with the Apostle ..... I can move my off hand pinky finger 1/8" and change note pitches. That feature is what makes the Apostle so fast ... but time consuming to learn.

It's a pretty tough call to blow. Those guts take a lot of air to run, and 3/4" barrels take a lot of air to fill.


The Apostle tought to blow??? :no: Great easy blowing call. I have an older one which did take quite some air, but the newer ones in the last year are great.
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Re: Looking for a new call

Postby tripleb » Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:49 am

Trevor Shannahan wrote:
tripleb wrote:
goldfish wrote:
Gunnysway wrote:Have you ever re-tuned the Apostle? That would be the easiest fix. If you need help, I'm in the north metro and would find a few minutes to help you work it out.

Gunny


I think it's a matter of design with how much air it takes to run, but I also don't know what I'm doing with a call so who knows, lol.


The Apostle ought to be very easy to run .... considering the air required. But, it is so sensitive to changes in back pressure (controlled by your hands) that it's a bit of a challenge to many callers. Start out trying to find a hand position where you can get a good sounding honk. It may take some experimentation to do that. Once you find the right hand position to make a good honk, try picking up the call and blowing a note .... put down the call ... pick it back up ..... blow a note, etc., to establish muscle memory. If you do it often enough, you should be able to do it with your eyes closed. Then, try moving your fingers a little as you increase or decrease air pressure into the call. That will change the notes up or down in pitch. Remember how much or how little it took to change pitches so you can practice repeating them. It takes very little change in hand/finger position to change note pitches with the Apostle ..... I can move my off hand pinky finger 1/8" and change note pitches. That feature is what makes the Apostle so fast ... but time consuming to learn.

It's a pretty tough call to blow. Those guts take a lot of air to run, and 3/4" barrels take a lot of air to fill.


Really? I pop the air into the call and it breaks over pretty easily for me .... of course becoming easier after an hour or so of running the call to loosen up a new reed. Perhaps it's a matter of air presentation which makes the difference and why I think the Apostle is easy to run. It's the longer calls, which require more air volume that give me fits ...... cluck, cluck, cluck .... take a breath ..... cluck, cluck, cluck, take another breath and repeat. :lol3:

Mike's changed his guts a couple of times. The one's in the Die Hard Apostle I got seemed as easy as any I set up for myself, usually by lowering the angle of the reed a bit. They appeared to have been injection molded to me, rather than cast as he has used in the past. I do remember, however, that when he was producing the polycarb Apostle, that some people thought the guts were too hard to run. The ones in the new cast acrylic calls seemed pretty easy to me.
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Re: Looking for a new call

Postby Trevor Shannahan » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:08 pm

DMBgoosehunter13 wrote:
Trevor Shannahan wrote:
tripleb wrote:
goldfish wrote:
Gunnysway wrote:Have you ever re-tuned the Apostle? That would be the easiest fix. If you need help, I'm in the north metro and would find a few minutes to help you work it out.

Gunny


I think it's a matter of design with how much air it takes to run, but I also don't know what I'm doing with a call so who knows, lol.


The Apostle ought to be very easy to run .... considering the air required. But, it is so sensitive to changes in back pressure (controlled by your hands) that it's a bit of a challenge to many callers. Start out trying to find a hand position where you can get a good sounding honk. It may take some experimentation to do that. Once you find the right hand position to make a good honk, try picking up the call and blowing a note .... put down the call ... pick it back up ..... blow a note, etc., to establish muscle memory. If you do it often enough, you should be able to do it with your eyes closed. Then, try moving your fingers a little as you increase or decrease air pressure into the call. That will change the notes up or down in pitch. Remember how much or how little it took to change pitches so you can practice repeating them. It takes very little change in hand/finger position to change note pitches with the Apostle ..... I can move my off hand pinky finger 1/8" and change note pitches. That feature is what makes the Apostle so fast ... but time consuming to learn.

It's a pretty tough call to blow. Those guts take a lot of air to run, and 3/4" barrels take a lot of air to fill.


The Apostle tought to blow??? :no: Great easy blowing call. I have an older one which did take quite some air, but the newer ones in the last year are great.

Yea, but you like Addiction calls and they take an air compressor for lungs to blow. I have retuned an apostle with very easy running guts, and while being easier to run than the original they still take quite a bit of air. Kinda the reason I have never liked big straight bore barrels
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Re: Looking for a new call

Postby tripleb » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:44 pm

Trevor Shannahan wrote:
DMBgoosehunter13 wrote:
Trevor Shannahan wrote:
tripleb wrote:
goldfish wrote:
Gunnysway wrote:Have you ever re-tuned the Apostle? That would be the easiest fix. If you need help, I'm in the north metro and would find a few minutes to help you work it out.

Gunny


I think it's a matter of design with how much air it takes to run, but I also don't know what I'm doing with a call so who knows, lol.


The Apostle ought to be very easy to run .... considering the air required. But, it is so sensitive to changes in back pressure (controlled by your hands) that it's a bit of a challenge to many callers. Start out trying to find a hand position where you can get a good sounding honk. It may take some experimentation to do that. Once you find the right hand position to make a good honk, try picking up the call and blowing a note .... put down the call ... pick it back up ..... blow a note, etc., to establish muscle memory. If you do it often enough, you should be able to do it with your eyes closed. Then, try moving your fingers a little as you increase or decrease air pressure into the call. That will change the notes up or down in pitch. Remember how much or how little it took to change pitches so you can practice repeating them. It takes very little change in hand/finger position to change note pitches with the Apostle ..... I can move my off hand pinky finger 1/8" and change note pitches. That feature is what makes the Apostle so fast ... but time consuming to learn.

It's a pretty tough call to blow. Those guts take a lot of air to run, and 3/4" barrels take a lot of air to fill.


The Apostle tought to blow??? :no: Great easy blowing call. I have an older one which did take quite some air, but the newer ones in the last year are great.

Yea, but you like Addiction calls and they take an air compressor for lungs to blow. I have retuned an apostle with very easy running guts, and while being easier to run than the original they still take quite a bit of air. Kinda the reason I have never liked big straight bore barrels


I picked up an Addiction Habit and while I couldn't quite figure out how to get the factory guts to run to my satisfaction, I was able to get some Saunders red guts with an E4 reed I reshaped to the profile of a GVCC reed to run well in it. It doesn't require much air, as I sanded the top of the tone board down from .336" to .331" just behind the tuning groove. That drops the reed angle down and makes it run easier. You do lose a bit of the "big goose" low end, but it still sounds pretty good .... at least for a high pitched call. It's just a bit lower in pitch than my Apostles, but I can run it at the same higher pitch and the geese have responded well to it so far.

I sand the Saunders tone board from exhaust end toward the tuning groove, making a slight taper with nothing removed on the exhaust end. The black mark shows where the plastic is removed ... though I extend it to the tuning groove. About 1 pass on 8" of 400 grit wet or dry paper will take it down to about .331". If you go any lower, the call becomes too light and you loose a lot of the big goose low end. You do loose a little bit of the "big goose" sound by doing this, but it's a good tradeoff if you're air volume challenged as I am. Reshaping the reed to the GVCC form seems to allow a better transition from note to note up the pitch scale.

Image
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Re: Looking for a new call

Postby goldfish » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:54 pm

Ok, a lot going on here, but I'll start with this:
tripleb wrote:Most of the geese you will hear while hunting are high pitched ... not low pitched.

Yea, you were right. I started listening closer to what the geese flying over my place were doing and they were higher pitched than what I was remembering a "goose" would do.

I can run my apostle well enough. I can get honks, clucks, moans, murmers, donkeys... basically everything from disk 1 on the bad grammar cd (how they would sound to someone else besides me sitting in my truck, I don't know). It's just a lot more difficult to run than pretty much every other call I've tried. Maybe it is how I have the guts setup. I did monkey with them to try and get them to be the sound that I like. I can hit multiple notes with it too (higher and lower). I think I can hit 3, maybe 4 if I'm lucky, lol. I can run a long series of clucks, so it's not like I'm ever all that short on air, but it takes a harder push and pop to run a long sequence. I do know that it's tough for me to honk it quiet though because of the amount of air required, which while hunting over water echo's like a ****.

This is my second die hard. The first one the barrel and insert were pretty loose fitting, so I stopped by game fair the year before to talk to Mike about it and he just says "pick another one" because his mold was a little off on his first run, so I got to trade in for brand new. Thought that was pretty good of him. Actually, come to think of it I'm not sure if I've changed around the guts in this one since I swapped the call. I may have restrained myself from doing so...

I would love to get a wood call. Just the way they feel reminds me of using my dad's calls way back when. I wish there were more places to try calls around here. Game fair is the best chance I have, and there were only a couple of call makers with wood calls. Course if they are cheap enough, I could care less what it's made out of if I can make it sound good.
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Re: Looking for a new call

Postby tripleb » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:01 pm

goldfish wrote:Ok, a lot going on here, but I'll start with this:
tripleb wrote:Most of the geese you will hear while hunting are high pitched ... not low pitched.

Yea, you were right. I started listening closer to what the geese flying over my place were doing and they were higher pitched than what I was remembering a "goose" would do.

I can run my apostle well enough. I can get honks, clucks, moans, murmers, donkeys... basically everything from disk 1 on the bad grammar cd (how they would sound to someone else besides me sitting in my truck, I don't know). It's just a lot more difficult to run than pretty much every other call I've tried. Maybe it is how I have the guts setup. I did monkey with them to try and get them to be the sound that I like. I can hit multiple notes with it too (higher and lower). I think I can hit 3, maybe 4 if I'm lucky, lol. I can run a long series of clucks, so it's not like I'm ever all that short on air, but it takes a harder push and pop to run a long sequence. I do know that it's tough for me to honk it quiet though because of the amount of air required, which while hunting over water echo's like a ****.

This is my second die hard. The first one the barrel and insert were pretty loose fitting, so I stopped by game fair the year before to talk to Mike about it and he just says "pick another one" because his mold was a little off on his first run, so I got to trade in for brand new. Thought that was pretty good of him. Actually, come to think of it I'm not sure if I've changed around the guts in this one since I swapped the call. I may have restrained myself from doing so...

I would love to get a wood call. Just the way they feel reminds me of using my dad's calls way back when. I wish there were more places to try calls around here. Game fair is the best chance I have, and there were only a couple of call makers with wood calls. Course if they are cheap enough, I could care less what it's made out of if I can make it sound good.


I wouldn't judge how you sound on the call by how it sounds when being run inside a truck, or even inside a building. In every area I've tried, the calls sounds higher pitched than it will sound outside. Try to find a spot where you can get a good echo off a large building. Normally, you'll have to be 100 or more yards away. You may only hear 1 or 2 quick notes if you try to run several, but what you hear will be closer to what your calling really sounds like than what you hear inside a truck or building.

Perhaps you need your call retuned ..... or the reed shaved a bit. Often, as I have run calls, the calls run easily, then they start to bog down .... require more air and run slower. I've found that that's usually due to the tip of the reed rubbing against the back of the tone channel. I take a hemostat and bend the reed tip up to about 45 degrees, then let it relax to about the point in the pic. You don't want to have a permanent 45 degree bend, you just want to bend it up to 45 degrees .... then let it relax. It will relax to about the point shown in the pic and remain easier to run.

This is the part I bend .... starting from the tip edge of the black line .

Image

This is what the bent tip should relax to.

Image
Last edited by tripleb on Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tripleb
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