passthrough or not?

Deer, Elk, Moose, Bear, Hog

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passthrough or not?

Postby jjohnson_714 » Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:23 am

so i have been wondering about this. when you shoot an animal, do you personally prefer the bullet to come out the other side leaving a exit wound or do you prefer for all of the energy of the bullet to stay in the animal you are shooting? just wondering what the general consensis is.
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Postby side-slippin » Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:21 am

like you said, this question definately boils down to personal preference. positives on both side. pass through definately gives you a better blood trail to follow, on the other hand a bullet that doesnt exit will expend all of its energy into the animal.

i know a guy that likes to study the chactaristics of his bullets after impact, so he shoots nothing less than a 70% bullet. i on the other hand stick with the 40 to 60% range in bullet choice. Great bullistics, excellent transfer of energy, but almost always will pass through a deer and even an elk. so i more than likely have i really nice "red dirt trail" right up to my downed game.
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Postby side-slippin » Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:21 am

by the way, great question!
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Postby justduckingaround » Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:15 pm

I prefer the pass through much better blood trail
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Postby MissedAgain » Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:13 am

This is a fascinating subject.

Some bullets are made to disintigrate, others hold together at certain velocities, sone are made to remain intact, and others are a combination of the above. We can get into sectional densities and bullet length, etc.

You'll find a lot of different thoughts on this. I read an interesting article once - it may have been by Chawk Hawks. He had said he liked the bullet stopping under the skin on the far side...

My thoughts are that I want a bullet that mushrooms but goes all the way thru - even with the .243 that I shoot. So I stick with the Nosler partition line - the nose part of the bullet mushrooms and crumples, dumping the important hydrostatic shock energy in there AND the rear half keeps on going.

Down here in FL, if you don't have full penetration (and some kind of blood trail), you are severly limiting yourself in most areas due to extreme vegatation growth and zero visibility in many areas.

I have to say some things about bullet length/weight/sectional density... When sighting in my muzzleloader, I started with 300 gr bullets and couldn't get them to group well. I read a post about bullet length causing the bullet to be unstable with certian barrel twists and dropped to a shorter/lighter bullet (240 & 250 gr) and started printing well. The groups went from 6 inches+ down to 2 inches.

Skinny of it all - try different loads in the guns and see what shoots best for your gun.

My Rem 700 .243 prints Federal blue box ammo at roughly an inch at 200 yards! The Hornady bullets I bought print roughly 2 inches and are assumed to be loaded to tighter tolerances, with better components. My challenge is to load up some Nosler P's that will shoot as well as the Federal ammo.
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Postby jjohnson_714 » Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:00 am

those are some great answers. here's my thoughts. on my .243, i want it to passthrough so it leaves a bigger blood trail. the reason is that i do not believe that the .243 has enough energy to "shock" the animal to death so i want as many places for it to bleed out and die as possible. kind of like an arrow. quite a few deer have died from that gun. although it has never taken more than one shot, they usually make it about 100 yards or so before they drop with a heart/lung shot. however with the exit wounds i get, blood tracking has yet to be a problem. (also i'm with you on the federal blue box. my m77 LOVES them)

with my .300 win mag i dont want complete penetration. because of the energy that gun has, the shock alone is enough to kill a deer. i want every last bit of ft/lbs to transfer over to the deer to aid in this. i've never had a deer walk a single step after shooting them. they just cringe really hard and fall over dead. therefor the kill isnt from massive blood loss like it is with the .243 but it is from shock.

so to cap up my thoughs that i've recieved with my scientific data :biggrin:
-small calibers i want passthrough to aide in the massive blood loss that will stop carrying the blood to the brain and cause it to die
-large calibers i want the bullet to expend all of its energy inside the animal causing shock and kill the animal instantly.

thanks for the insight guys :thumbsup:
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Postby Sagebrush » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:24 am

Lots of stuff to consider............

Bullet design and thickness of the copper jacket,bonded,HP,Ptd,
RN, 100% copper...etc.

The velosity of the bullet at impact, did it hit a bone or sholder,
was it a quartering shot,headon or broad side??

The amout of energy that certain bullet has.

I can shoot a deer at 150 yards with my 22-250 or 800 yards with my 30-06 with a 200gr b/t with over 1,000 ft/lbs of energy.

However, I try, not to have a pass through, to prevent even more
blood damage and meat damage to the animal I am hunting.

One deer I shot with a quality 180gr 06, went all the way through
at 250 yards and took half of the far shoulder blade with it.
Not a pretty sight and lots of wasted meat and lots of scrap time.

Light fast bullets that shead all their energy inside the game, in the heart,lung area, with max. hydro shock , is what I try for now.

I also reload and my 270 and 30-06 now shoot loads that are 80% of factory for maximum accuray and still drop the game just as fast.
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Postby pennsyltucky » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:43 am

depends on where ur shootin em. i like the quartering-to shoulder shot. quick expanding bullets dont fare well here, and 90% dont exit, regardless of construction. nearly 100% are anchored to the spot tho :thumbsup:
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Postby don taylor » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:18 am

Head/Neck shots and highly frangible ammo are the ticket. I don't eat the head. I eat the heart.
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Postby Sagebrush » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:39 pm

I am with Don..............

Don't shoot em in the heart!!

Aim HIGH!!

Liver and onions is also ok................
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Postby Brent1812 » Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:33 am

Shot placement is the answer. If you choose for head and neck shots, there is no question to either a hit or miss. If it's hit, it's down, if it's a miss...

As for a pass through, like Missed Again said, here in Florida you track over green vegitation year round, so if there is no blood trail, they are hard to find. If i hat to choose, I say a pass-through, but prefer a good head/neck shot.
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Postby OkieHunter » Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:57 pm

I like shoot Ballistic tips because they usually do not exit the animal and all the energy is absorbed by the animal kinda turns the insides into jello. and you don't have to track them far if at all.
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Postby REDGUN » Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:43 pm

I want all of my big game bullets to exit for the better blood trail. :thumbsup:
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passthrough

Postby stanimal » Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:11 pm

i dont think it matters as long as you hit them right unless you wont a blood trail like these other guys. i say put them down right where there standing :hammer: :thumbsup: :hammer:
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Postby ugajones » Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:30 pm

One thing you have to connsider is that you get a better quality meat when the animal bleeds out as quickly as possible and as much as possible. this means that ou want a pass through with a heart/lung shot. just my two cents
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passthrough

Postby stanimal » Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:39 pm

i dont think it matters as long as you get them skinned out and cooled off as fast as possible more importantly than bleed out with h&L shot the bleed out anyways and that all comes out when you gut. :thumbsup:
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Postby ugajones » Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:14 pm

my point is that with the heart and lung shot the animal is going to run a bit, which will pump the blood out of the muscles themselves. If you drop a deer with a head shot it won't bleed out at all.
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passthrough

Postby stanimal » Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:38 am

i was nit talking about head shooting either. a good braudside
vitals shot willusually drop them if the run it aint far.
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Postby PcolaDu » Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:52 am

i have to say most of the deer i have shot with my .243 with ballistic tips rarely went one step and the most i have blood trailed was 50yds but hey maybe i just got good luck but my choice is either...... as long as its down especially with a small caliber
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drop em

Postby stanimal » Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:00 am

yeah i agree with that small calliber in my case 25-06 fast
really does put them down its not just luck your having its good shooting with good bullistics.
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Postby Troutslayer » Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:42 pm

jjohnson_714 wrote:those are some great answers. here's my thoughts. on my .243, i want it to passthrough so it leaves a bigger blood trail. the reason is that i do not believe that the .243 has enough energy to "shock" the animal to death so i want as many places for it to bleed out and die as possible. kind of like an arrow. quite a few deer have died from that gun. although it has never taken more than one shot, they usually make it about 100 yards or so before they drop with a heart/lung shot. however with the exit wounds i get, blood tracking has yet to be a problem. (also i'm with you on the federal blue box. my m77 LOVES them)

with my .300 win mag i dont want complete penetration. because of the energy that gun has, the shock alone is enough to kill a deer. i want every last bit of ft/lbs to transfer over to the deer to aid in this. i've never had a deer walk a single step after shooting them. they just cringe really hard and fall over dead. therefor the kill isnt from massive blood loss like it is with the .243 but it is from shock.

so to cap up my thoughs that i've recieved with my scientific data :biggrin:
-small calibers i want passthrough to aide in the massive blood loss that will stop carrying the blood to the brain and cause it to die
-large calibers i want the bullet to expend all of its energy inside the animal causing shock and kill the animal instantly.

thanks for the insight guys :thumbsup:


I am so confused right now. So you want a .243 that passes through and a .300 WM that does not, deer size game. Why? I have never thought of shocking them to death as an option. I want a bullet with high weight retention and one that passes through leaving a large hole out the offside.

If you want a dramatic bang-flop and want to see that energy knock the crap out of them you should shoot for the spine or shoulder, but I don't see how there can be too much energy as long as the bullet is performing the way it's supposed to.
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Postby jjohnson_714 » Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:04 pm

its just what i've found with hunting with the two calibers. with the .300 mag they drop dead in their tracks with a heart/lung shot. i'm guessing it is from the shock of getting hit because its not because of blood loss. with the .243 they will always go a ways (1-200 yards) before dying with the exact same shot. i want a blood trail for the latter, and the first one i want it knocking around in there.

also remember this is from non-scientific studies so other's results may vary :thumbsup:
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Postby montana quackhead » Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:23 pm

Stictly head shot between the eyes. Let the bullets mushroom or go through. Doesn't matter...Their dead!
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Postby fenton_3 » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:17 pm

This one is actually pretty simple. The ideal shot will not pass though because that means all the energy of the bullet was transfered to the game. If the bullet passes through you are wasting valuble energy that is not transfered to make a quick clean kill. Now all these head shots and whatever else everyone claims is the best are not ideal shots for a quick clean kill. Now I have shot deer in the neck, but I do not think they are ideal as the room for error is much greater than a shot to the heart lung area. Simply put the heart lung area is a larger target!

As for blood trail; I have never had to track an animal more than 75 ft. All fell within sight of my stand!

This year I shot a deer at 50yrds with a .300wsm loaded down to .30-06 levels. I used a 165 gr Accubond "great bullet by the way". Shot the deer in the heart lung area and drop dead instantly! I did get a pass through but, because the bullet expands so fast the heart and both lungs were liquid. Now I dont eat the heart so I dont really care; although my parents swear it taste great. I like to use the same load for whatever I am hunting so I dont have to resight my rifle. This round will be used to hunt Whitetail, Mule Deer, Prong Horn, and Elk! I expect passthrough on everything but Elk; which I do not want because I want every ounce of energy to transfer to that animal. Just my .02 cents
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Postby Sagebrush » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:08 pm

With all the supper bullets and Ulta High Velosity loads out there for us to use on game, just remember this...........

The old 30-30 with the 150 bullet at only 2390 fps has killed
bear,moose,dear and even mice !!
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