Fly Fishing

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Fly Fishing

Postby Greenhead329 » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:17 pm

Who all on here fly fishes and whats some beginners advice?
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Postby jrockncash » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:21 pm

Dont go crazy with expensive gear. Use the cheapest stuff you can until you know you want to get into it. Just like spinning or flippin you can catch fish with a $30 combo.
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Postby hamernhonkers » Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:05 pm

Start out on the lawn praticing your cast. If you know some one who is a good caster watch them and learn where and when to stop the rod. If not get casting basics dvd and watch it. As far as equiptment don't start with the bottom end. Low end rods don't cast worth a darn. Sorry but it is the truth. Look into some of the middle of the road rods to start out with. As like everone else I have my personal favorites but there are many good rods in the 100 to $200 price range that you can get you started right and last a long time for you. You can look at orvis, sage, fenwick, st croix, powell and many others who offer good rods in this range. Also what kind of fish do you plan on targeting? You will want a line size to match the fish you plan on chasing. Reels don't matter as much if you are catching small fish that don't make powerful runs but if you going after larger fish that can take you into 100 or 200 yards of line then you are going to need a good disc drag reel.
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Postby Montanafowler » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:41 pm

don't crack your wrist, get your timing down, practice.
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Postby jrockncash » Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:04 pm

Your right a 200 dollar rod does cast better, but do you really think someone who has never fly fished before will know that the rod is casting better? I was just trying to save the guy some dough, if you can afford it by all means get the good stuff. But if you can afford a $200 dollar pole, why not get a cheap one as a backup and one to try out to see if you are even going to stick with it. But honkers rod choices are real good.
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Postby TNT » Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:34 pm

Hey,
I,m just starting to. Haven't even went yet still working on how to cast. Got a good video with Joan Wolf it's realy helpfull.
I was wanting to know if there is a book or something on what flies to use and when?
Also something that tells me what the flies are? I would not know a adams fly in a creek if I seen one.
Lead to little, get a cripple. Lead to much, no such luck. Lead just right, duck for dinner tonight.
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Postby Montanafowler » Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:38 pm

get a stream side pocket book, they are under 20 dollars. they tell you what kind bug the fish are feeding on by the rise form. get a fly tying book, the umpqua book has something like 1000 most popular flies by category and species use.
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Postby bigcat » Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:16 am

Take a lesson if you can , most fly shops will help get you started.
Also a lot of videos out there you can watch, and practice, practice,
practice :smile:
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Fly fishing

Postby rhmill01 » Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:52 am

I think the best book is a comic formatted book by Sheridan Anderson titled "The Curtis Creek Manifesto." It's no-nonsense and has about everything you need to know about casting techniques and, more imporant, fishing strategies. Published in soft cover by Frank Amato publications. Can be purchased online from amazon.com.
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Postby Kiskadinna » Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:03 am

Ahh yes, the cheap vs. expsneive gear debate - never ending.
I've been fly fishing for about 20 years. I started out on a wet noodle of a south bend fly rod and even though I have yet to break the $200 dollar mark, there is an appreciable difference.
The best way to look at it if you are going to go out and buy gear is to buy the nicest ROD you can afford. Don't put your money into a reel more than the rod, as it really only holds the line in most fly fishing applications. If you buy a 30 dollar combo to get a feel for it, there is nothing wrong with that. No sense in putting good moeny towards somethign you aren't sure of.
The best way to figure all this out though is to go to a fly shop or a place that will allow you to throw some line in the back parking lot with a couple rods. If you can do that you might even get some casting instruction out of the deal. THere are a lot of good books out there by Lefty Kreh, Joan Wulff and others, but the one I think deconstructs it well for most beginners is "Fly Casting" By Jim Schollmeyer and Frank Amato.
The best thing is to start simple though - you can make fly fishing as cheap or as expensive of a sport as you desire. A rod, line and reel are all you need - throw in a dozen flies to start (caddis/adams, bead headed nymphs, wooly bugger) and you're set for almost anything that will take a hook in fresh water).
One thing that helps with rhythm and correct pressure in loading the fly rod is to take it apart (this method assumes a 2 piece rod but many are 3 and 4 piece now) - using the end with the grip on it, tie about 6-10 feet of brightly colored yarn to the tip of the half rod and practice straightening that out. As you gain more confidence and ability, add sections of the rod till you are at full length - then substitute your regular line for the yarn. If you are using your fishing line, practice on the water or on grass (avoiding hard surfaces such as concrete).
If you have further questions, drop a line, or check out www.flyanglersonline.com - tons of good articles there on flyfishing.
I am moving this to the fishing forum as an FYI.
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Postby backcast » Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:39 am

THer's been some good info alread here. And just to enlighten you, $200 is really not a very expensive flyrod. Yes, it's still expensive, but you can easily blow $500+. It will be quite a while until you get to the point that you'll be able to tell much of a difference. Definately put your money into a rod for now. The reel is simply holding line. A 'slower' rod will suit you for now, but will piss you off later. On the other hand, starting with a rod that's too 'fast' will absolutely wreck your casting. I've got clients that will always want to cast one of my Sage Xp's (very fast) and immediately switch back to what I recommended.
As far as casting, I strongly recommend going to your closest flyshop and attending a casting class. Most of the time, they offer them for free. If they don't, it's still well worth the minimal cost. You can even "demo" rods and get a free class while you're at it.
Lefty Kreh has some excellent videos and book which will be good to learn the proper fundamentals of fly casting.
For beginners, you're not going to want to break your wrist. Once you understand what's going on, slight variations of wrist position and movement will help you tweak your cast. Purchasing a wrist-lock while you're learning will help you in your learning of your cast. ALso, make sure you're bringing your rod back and forward on the same plane...kind of like a golf swing.
Remember, this is the only type of casting where your line propels your bait.
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Postby hopkins11 » Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:33 am

I'm actually a casting instructor and rod builder...

If its trout you are after, go to cabela's and plan on spending around $100 on a 4 weight rod + another 20-50 for a reel (I like Pflueger.) Add on line, leader, tippet, ect. This varies based on how many shiny gadgets you want to have. (I carry foreceps, a small fly box and sometimes an iPod.) Buy a floating weight forward line and tie some yarn to your leader for yard work. Let out about 20 feet (you'll feel the rod load when you get the length right.)

The trick for many people is to make deliberate movements from 9 o'clock (parallel with the water) to 1 (pointing at the sky.) Start slowly and accelerate to the stopping point - stop abruptly.

At the top, say 2, thousand, 3, thousand (to let the line uncurl behind you and load the rod - its much longer than you think) and accelerate it back down so the you are pointing just ABOVE the water. This will let the fly lay down nicely rather than to create a splash.

When you are ready to hit the water, go to a local fly shop and ask the guys where to go for a beginner (ponds are best) and what flies to pack. Make sure you buy a few from them in exchange for the advice.

Don't go out alone your first time - you'll just get frustrated. Bring someone along who can help weigh all the rockfish and treefish that you catch. :wink:

Most of all - HAVE FUN!
:biggrin:
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Postby backcast » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:54 am

hopkins11 wrote:Don't go out alone your first time - you'll just get frustrated. Bring someone along who can help weigh all the rockfish and treefish that you catch. :wink:
:biggrin:


We call it "monkey fishing"
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Postby dudejcb » Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:23 pm

get the best rod you can afford and get one with a guarantee like Orvis or Sage or any that's worth the money. Besides saving money (when you throw the cheap one in the trash after the first year) the cost of the rod will remind and obligate you to practice your casting. And learn how to cast sideways too. Most of the time the fish are under branches near the bank and you need to be able to loft a fly horizontally, just above the surface back into their lairs.

As far as books go, first read, Prospecting for Trout by Tom Rosenhouer. The Curtis Creek Manifestof is fine but it's relativley simple and short and leaves a lot unsaid. It's little more thatn a cartoon pamphlet.

I suggest you read some fly tying books cuz a good one will talk about how to fish the fly as well as how to tie it, and you learn a lot about fish behavior and entymology in the process. Sylvester Nemes is a good author, and the wet hackle flies he likes, or someting similar that only matching the bugs in your local streams, are deadly.

for getting into the Zen of flyfishing try Trout Bum or any of John Geirach's books. You're going to have to take up fly tying too if you want to become a good fly fisherman.

Being a good fly tier means learning a bit about entymology and the stages of bug life, what they look like, where they're found, and how they transition from nymph stage living on the bottom, and become emergers swimming for the surface, and duns... the dried off ready to fly version, sitting on top of the surface film.

The nice thing about fly fishing is that when it's working, it's better than other types of fishing. And there is so much to learn, you never get bored.
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Postby TNT » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:15 pm

This is great info and i appriciate it more than you can imagine. Learning the bugs and stages of them looks like it is going to be tough.
The guy at the fly shop hooked me up with a 6wt rod White River by Bass Pro
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Postby Greenhead329 » Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:28 pm

Thanks for all the input guys!! My dad found out I was interested and he's going to see if he can't find his old gear :biggrin: . Whats the differences in the line weight :huh:
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Postby dudejcb » Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:47 pm

heavier (larger number) fly line weights have more "authority" when you're casting big stuff, streamers or big stone fly dries. And if you're fishing for stronger fish, bass, steelhead, salmon, tarpon... the bigger the fish, usually the bigger the rod and line. The smaller the weight, usually the more sensitive the rod is to the feel of the fish, and delivers the fly more delicately... less spookage.

Heavier rods with matched lines help when you're trying to cast against the wind. They also require a bit more work.

another way to beat the wind is to use weight forward line, which is generally easier for beginners to cast, but may not land as delicately as double taper (although they can be just as delicate if you cast the correct way). Just depends on your fishing situation.

for trout I like a 4-weight, but 5-weight is generally considered a good compromise between sensitivity and backbone. (I have 3, 4, 5 & 6 weight rods, but have been flyfishing a long time.)

I do a lot of drift fishing (from a raft) on fast water, and there's usually an afternoon wind on these western rivers, so I use a weight forward line so I can put the fly where I want it before I float past where they're holding, and to overcome the wind (although the wind is always a problem).

If I were primarily wade or lake fishing, I'd probably go with double taper line. but get a weight forward until you've become a really good caster.

Fly line weight is one thing, but knowing your leader size is a big deal too. The idea is to transfer energy from the rod, through the fly line, and into the leader, to cast the fly... that has no real weight of its own to carry it, the way a crankbait, a spoon or a jig does.

If you're throwing big stuff (like giant stone dries), or flies that elicit a hard strike (like streamers) your tippet should be no smaller than 3X or 2X... or if the fish are big maybe 0x or larger. If your tossing size 14 or 16 dry flys to sipping trout, then you want tippets from 4X to 6X. The smaller the tippet number the larger the line diameter, which is the opposite of fly line numbering where small numbers are lighter lines.

BTW: if the water you're fishing is slow and clear, you need very fine small tippets. If it's faster bubbling riffle water, or is off-color, you can get away with 4X or something a bit stronger.

Make sense?
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Postby Kiskadinna » Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:56 pm

It goes back to the comment about your line being the power behind the fly that you are throwing. Line weights range from a proprietary 00 or double-ought into the teens. For most freshwater applications, you are best served by a weight of 5-7.
If you plan to only throw dry flies upstream at waiting trout, you might want to go on the smaller side - even a 3 weight (these can also be a blast for panfish) - on the other hand, if you generally fish for bass and throw large deer hair poppers or clouser minnows, then you want a heavier weight (say around a 7 wt). Higher weights for larger flies and in turn larger fish.
When it comes to rods and lines though, line weight is more a function of the caster - On certain rods in certain conditions, I like to underweight (cast a 5 wt line on a 6 wt rod). The point in saying this is that manufacturers match their rod to perform to an acceptable standard and when matched with line wt X it does that best. People being different though, may choose to under or over line.
For starters, I usually recommend a 9 foot 6 weight - its not the quintessential trout rod, but will work well for trout, lake fishing, bass, and some smaller pike flies. The amount of options for rods and lines is far more dizzying than choice of shotgun could EVER be - there is no reason you should buy your first rod and have it limit you to spring creeks and #16 adams - or to 2/0 streamers.
Fly line cores are far stronger than the typical leader and tippet you put on the end, so the typical pundage of test is not as applicable as it is with spinning or casting gear.
Hope that gets you pointed in the right direction.

Edit: The Dude beat me to it. This time, Erik abides.

Tight Lines,
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Postby Montanafowler » Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:37 pm

i agree with dude and eric, start with a 6wt. if you get into trout and you get to casting well, get a 4wt. a fast action 4 wt will hold it's own on big trout, i've seen 3wts catch 30 inch trout. if you are gonna be bass fishing, get an 8wt for throwing bass flies, you'll need the backbone because bass fight better. hope this helps you get started on another outdoors addiction.

P.S. buy cheap leaders, you'll tie knots in them consistently for the first year or so.
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Postby beeks'n'butts » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:19 pm

I USED A 20 DOLLAR COMBO WHEN I FIRST STARTED AND IT WORKED FINE I COUGHT HUNDREDS OF FISH TROUT CRAPPIE YOU NAME IT GET GOOD ON A CHEAP ONE THEN YOU BUY THE MORE EXPENSIVE COMBO
thats what im talkin bout
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Postby Kiskadinna » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:00 pm

Please remove caps lock.
:welcome: to DHC!
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Postby Pillowcasr » Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:42 am

Yeah what they said. You have a lot to learn Grass hopper. You wil love learning it tho.

Flyfishing Isn't a sport you choose, its a sport that chooses you.

It seduces you with voluptous photos of virgin streams and glistening boulders and writhing wild trout.

It romances you with a story book kife construsted with flannel shirts and crackling campfires woven together with nailknotted line.

And with every fish you hook and play and admire and release, fly fishing tightens its grip.

Because, hypocritical as it sounds, flyfishing doesn't practice catch and release.

Once it catches you, you stay caught!

- Author unknown


I don't know anybetter way to say it. Have fun with it, it will teach you patience, and how to deal with fustration. YOu will learn more other than just fly fishing. Fly fishing and Duck hunting, nothing better! :thumbsup:

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Postby Professor Chaos » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:21 pm

Here is my advice. You can read all you want in books or on the web, but you will learn best by either getting a guide, or taking lessons. If you support your local fly shop they will support you.
I would reccomend making friends with the guys there and just get some one on one instruction.
You'll learn more in those sessions than you ever will just reading about it online.
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Postby Montanafowler » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:34 pm

have you new guys gone out yet? how'd you like it?
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Postby XR2 » Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:29 pm

I just got my first fly rod- bought a Sage Launch 5 wt. with a Ross Flystart 2 reel- never fly fished before in my life but have always wanted to do it. Biggest issue for me is "stopping at 10" and not snapping my wrists but i'm working on it
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