.38 snubby

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.38 snubby

Postby Sagebrush » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:34 am

Finally got my Jhp loads down to the final test for self defence and was pretty pleased with the results
at ten feet with off hand, even though the patterns were a little right and low, which I will have to work on.

148 swchp and 158 swc test are next after getting chrony speeds to try to find , factory Dup loads and a +P
for the 158 Lhp that I have on hand. Then water test for bullet performance.

Long way to go but here is a look at the top of the iceburg............

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Re: .38 snubby

Postby ajmorell » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:34 pm

Be careful using handloads as personal defense ammo, it's just one more thing they can ring you up on in court.
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Re: .38 snubby

Postby MOhuntingGuy » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:23 am

ajmorell wrote:Be careful using handloads as personal defense ammo, it's just one more thing they can ring you up on in court.

x2

Had a cop friend of mine that has helped teach the CCW classes around here tell me to only use factory ammo in your self defense gun. Because if you use handloads, they can get in court for stupid stuff like "You designed this round specifically for killing people so therefore you are being charged with second degree murder" or some stupid stuff like that. Plus they can refer to the ammo manufacture for ballistics and whatnot so they can cross reference it to the bad guy that you put down.
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Re: .38 snubby

Postby Sagebrush » Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:55 am

That is one major reason that I chrony ALL my pistol loads.................

NONE are faster than the standard +P loads and the 125Gr is at the low non+p Nyclad velositys.
They are equal to a 4" factory load but out of the 2" barrel, they drop from 60fps to as much as 120fps.

No way they can get me for "Super Dupper Man Killer" loads.................
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Re: .38 snubby

Postby waterfowlhunter » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:20 am

Sagebrush wrote:That is one major reason that I chrony ALL my pistol loads.................

NONE are faster than the standard +P loads and the 125Gr is at the low non+p Nyclad velositys.
They are equal to a 4" factory load but out of the 2" barrel, they drop from 60fps to as much as 120fps.

No way they can get me for "Super Dupper Man Killer" loads.................



Acording to the Lawyer I know very well, They do not care about the speed of the load, They push the fact that you purposly loaded these loads yourself and tested them yourself and therefore you "must have intended for them to kill someone". They use the point that you picked that specific bullet and load as leverage aginst you. I have heard this from several people and from other forums that it is just another way they will go after us law abiding citizens. I ONLY have factory loads in my gun and spare mags when I am carrying it for personal defense due to the courts and media. I carry a J-Frame, HK 45 or Kahr PM9 and are all loaded with Golden Saber +P ammo. Thru a LOT of testing in several media blocks they tend to create more of a shock cavity than the Gold dots or the Hornady that I tested even thru clothing. but the point is that they are off the shelf ammo that anyone can buy, Nothing special. :thumbsup:

Reloading is great (I do a lot of it) but for me I will carry Factory loads Just in case there is ever a need to use it.
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Re: .38 snubby

Postby dakotashooter2 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:40 am

I live in a rural area. My SD gun is the same one I use for shooting skunks or deer on the way home from work. It is loaded with rounds that will work for game or SD. In essence I use my "game" loads. I figure my lawyer can argue intent, that since I didn't use a designer factory load for SD I had no intention of shooting a person. Honestly a good lawyer can swing it any way. The prosecution can argue that you loaded your own "killer" loads but ask them to prove it.... They can't. I never load over factory specs so even if they test similar loads they will find nothing you can't buy over the counter. Even if they could without extensive testing they still couldn't prove it is more deadly than a factory load. If they try to plant such ideas in a jurys head you force them to back those ideas with evidence, which they don't have.
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Re: .38 snubby

Postby RustyGunz1960 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:53 pm

A fascinating discussion. I never would have even considered this.
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Re: .38 snubby

Postby Sagebrush » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:47 pm

"that you picked that specific bullet and load as leverage aginst you"............

That bullet that I picked is the Sierra 110gr Jhp , Hornady 125gr Jhp and the Speer 135gr Jhp ..........

These bullets are loaded for the public by Cor-Bon, Hornady and Speer for their line of SD ammo, which
is set at 1050fps, 945fps and 888fps....... I really don't see any problems if loaded to Factory specs or lower.

Now if I take a #2 Phillips and hit the tip of the bullet,making an "X" or add 150fps to the load, I can see where you might be making a "Super Dumb Dumb" bullet, but you are not shooting "Factory Stuff" any more .
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Re: .38 snubby

Postby waterfowlhunter » Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:29 am

Sagebrush wrote: but you are not shooting "Factory Stuff" any more .


You are not shooting "factory stuff" you are shooting "hand loads". and again I am told and have read that once it is brought up that you loaded the ammo yourself the jury has it in their head that you are a bad guy and purposly loaded "killer bullets" the jury might not be gun friendly and they might not know a thing about handloading to factory specs. They key on the point that you made the ammunition yourself.

Everyone will do as they see fit but for me I will spend the $15 - $20 a box for the Golden Sabers at Natches for my carry guns. Once a year I shoot them up and replace them wih a fresh box. My handloads will be reserved for the range and hunting. Yes I fear our justice system would not have the same opinion on my handloads as I did.

And I do not know if you are aware or not but you can not use any "advertised" specs in a court if the lawyers know what they are doing. Anything found on, say Winchesters site or in their books is considered "advertising" and is not admissable. you would have to have the "factory ammo" you were trying to match tested by a lab in your gun then your ammo tested and compared if you wanted to use the "same as factory load" defense.
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