Shotgun pointing conundrum + pistol

Trap, Skeet, Sporting Clays; pistol/rifle target shooting, to plinking cans with a bb gun.

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Shotgun pointing conundrum + pistol

Postby Black Coyote » Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:01 am

This is what Everyone says:
You don't aim a shotgun, you point it. Your dominant eye is your rear sight. The gun must fit so your eye is aligned with the rib and beads. Don't look at the barrel. Don't look at the bead. Look at the target. You want the gun to point where you look. Point the gun ahead of the target.

Me:
So you look at the bird while pointing the barrel in front of it? And you use the bead, while not looking at it, to judge the forward allowance?

And why do they say it's wrong to shoot pistol this way? I focus on the target and look down the sights peripherally. It works, but everyone says the front sight should be in crisp focus.

If you are shooting pistol while moving or at a moving target, isn't this how you'd do it? Same as shotgun, right?
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Re: Shotgun pointing conundrum + pistol

Postby Darryle » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:10 am

I never see the beads, just the bird. If the gun fits and you have a proper mount, it will point where you look.

Sporting Clays will help you develop a good mount, repetition enforces it, but if the gun doesn't fit, nothing short of a miracle will help
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Re: Shotgun pointing conundrum + pistol

Postby 3200 man » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:21 am

Yep that Cowboy has it right ! I will add though if your gun fits , your eye should be looking right down the center of your
rib and you should see a figure eight of the back bead touching the bottom of the front bead.....That's when you know that
when you have properly mounted your gun !!! After that , Think of it this way , your gun is shooting Tennis Balls and to hit
the flying target you have to shoot the tennis ball in front of the target.....how far you ask ......guess....until you get it
Right ! Remember though , it's hard to miss a target in front . :thumbsup:
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Re: Shotgun pointing conundrum + pistol

Postby Spot shooter » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:44 am

If you shoot enough you can see the bead and the bird... Train your eyes

The key is putting the bead where you want the bird to die (lead) and then pulling the trigger.

Those who say they don't see the bead - um... Sure ok, you kill % on shots may not be all that good.

With a field gun you cover the bird with the bead, you can set it if your stock is adjustable so the bird sits on-top of the bead.
I like seeing the bird when I shoot so mine shoots higher, in fact when I cheek the gun and am looking down the barrel the mid bead is under the front bead - if I put the bird on top .. Well that's where the pattern is centered.

Go shoot trap and "don't look at the bead," a few times - LOL...
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Re: Shotgun pointing conundrum + pistol

Postby 3200 man » Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:47 pm

Spot shooter wrote:If you shoot enough you can see the bead and the bird... Train your eyes

The key is putting the bead where you want the bird to die (lead) and then pulling the trigger.

Those who say they don't see the bead - um... Sure ok, you kill % on shots may not be all that good.

With a field gun you cover the bird with the bead, you can set it if your stock is adjustable so the bird sits on-top of the bead.
I like seeing the bird when I shoot so mine shoots higher, in fact when I cheek the gun and am looking down the barrel the mid bead is under the front bead - if I put the bird on top .. Well that's where the pattern is centered.

Go shoot trap and "don't look at the bead," a few times - LOL...


What about us that have no beads on our hunting guns ? Gun fit is more important than Beads .....for me !
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Re: Shotgun pointing conundrum + pistol

Postby Spot shooter » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:34 pm

Fit and balance are key to getting the gun up I agree.

No bead is a slippery slope - what next... Shooting with one eye, then both eyes closed ? :thumbsup:
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Re: Shotgun pointing conundrum + pistol

Postby taylor714914 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:51 pm

I have found my best shooting is when I don't try to find the bead and clay at the sporting clays or 5 stand. Find the bird and pull the trigger. Admittedly it was a tough mental barrier to break, feeling I had to see the bead for some reason, but when I started focusing only in the birds, knowing my gun fit was right, my breaks went way up.

I'd encourage anyone to try it at the sporting clays or 5 stand. Odd feeling at first, but became quite natural after about 50 birds, and only focusing on the birds and not trying to line everything up "correctly" has lead to better shooting for me.

Just my 2 cents
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Re: Shotgun pointing conundrum + pistol

Postby Spot shooter » Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:25 pm

All kinding aside your supposed to watch the bird so you can align the gun to it and shoot at the right time.

So everything you said is correct.

I'm a "spot shooter" is a natural shooter or point shooter that can kill "stuff" without needing to swing through - hence my handle. And yes that means I can whack 20+ trap and skeet from the low gun position consistently typically I score 23 ish.

I was taught to practice pulling up by doing drills where you pretend a bird is coming up, you then close your eyes and pull up the gun in the trail of that bird and open them when you think the gun is aligned.

If it isn't your doing it wrong, either your front hand isn't in the right spot to lift it correctly, or your placing the butt wrong, and not making a consistent cheek weld to the stock.

the key is - if you do that, and learn how to naturally shoulder and point, your beads are aligned and they don't mean much.

All this means is I shoot backup for the rest of the guys or no one will hunt next to me because I whack the birds too fast for them.
Growing up hunting ruffed grouse in the southern tier of NY that only give you 2 seconds to spot and shoot them will do that to a guy.
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Re: Shotgun pointing conundrum + pistol

Postby 3200 man » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:42 am

With your ability ( breaking 20 targets ) you have a long ways to go , to be in the record books !
Sometimes it's better to kick your lips out'a gear , so your ears will work !

Have a good day !
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Re: Shotgun pointing conundrum + pistol

Postby Spot shooter » Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:45 pm

LOL... Ok sure

I won enough matches for me, I shoot for myself, not sure what rankings do for a guy but to each there own.

I do still got the silver dollars, and 100 out of 100 patches in a drawer somewhere though.
I can't eat'em though, but I can eat the 2 pheasants I shot over the pup this morning..
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Re: Shotgun pointing conundrum + pistol

Postby Black Coyote » Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:04 pm

So if the gun points where you look and you look at the bird, then you'll always be behind it. So you either look in front of the bird and down the barrel or you look at the bird and not down the barrel. Which?
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Re: Shotgun pointing conundrum + pistol

Postby Black Coyote » Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:09 pm

Anyone know how a pistol is more accurate when the target is blurry and the front sight in crisp focus?
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Re: Shotgun pointing conundrum + pistol

Postby 3200 man » Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:00 pm

Black Coyote wrote:So if the gun points where you look and you look at the bird, then you'll always be behind it. So you either look in front of the bird and down the barrel or you look at the bird and not down the barrel. Which?


I can only offer you some advise as to how I and many others have been successful shooting a shotgun !
In-vision your shotgun is shooting Tennis Balls and from about 20 yds out those tennis balls turn into medium size Beach Balls
and at 40yds those Medium size Beach Balls get Really Big ! Now you know how it is to throw a Beach Ball at someone running ?
You have to exaggerate the lead in order to hit'em , right ? You're not focused on the spot the ball is thrown , you're looking
at the target !

With a good gun mount of the gun that fits you , you're looking at the targets direction of flight but you are shooting in
its path (LEAD or FORWARD ALLOWANCE )! In other words remember this , Fine the line , Shoot the Lead......works every time ,
with a...... little experience !
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Re: Shotgun pointing conundrum + pistol

Postby RustyGunz1960 » Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:04 am

I use the bead at the beginning of a target session that has followed a long period of not shooting so I can make sure I'm mounting the gun correctly. Those who say gun fit and mounting are the most important factors are 100% correct, however it is very difficult to know you've gotten both of those right in the first place without use of a bead, or at least sighting down the rib. I like to mount with my eyes closed during a few practice mounts and then open them to see if I'm sighting down the rib correctly. If I am, all is well.

But I do find myself in a multitude of awkward shooting positions when hunting from my sneakbox. The amount and thickness of your hunting clothing toss additional variables into gun fit and mounting. Regular range sessions will make you a better shot while hunting than without them, but do not prepare you for all the conditions you may encounter while hunting. That's another reason why I sometimes fall back on using the bead, at least as I mount my gun. For the rest of my swing I'm looking at the bird.
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Re: Shotgun pointing conundrum + pistol

Postby 3200 man » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:45 am

You're Right Rusty , we all must understand at different times of year shooting , our move , mount routine isn't always
spot-on , so it's logical with our peripheral vision (making sure) we are looking down the center of the rib as the stock hits
the pocket of our shoulder (somewhere) . With practice mounting a gun that fits , you can gain confidence the mount is
really close , just by feel , no matter what position you're in . The move , or , rotation of your hips for the swing , like
shooting out of a Lay-out blind , can be easier if your blinds direction favors a better follow-through with the gun ?
Rotating your upper torso ,from your hips , is where consistency in follow-through is , because if a shooter gets in a habit
of only moving the gun with his arms , he/her will be very limited in movement !

Sounds like , you know the drill ? :thumbsup:
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Re: Shotgun pointing conundrum + pistol

Postby Sagebrush » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:44 pm

Some learn faster than others, self taught.

Now a good instructor is a totally different story.

You not only learn that the car needs gas ..... but also how the motor works, tune the radio, defrost the windows
and let down the top !!

It is all a learning grade.
Breath in and out and enjoy it.

We all have our good and bad days.
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Re: Shotgun pointing conundrum + pistol

Postby apexhunter » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:59 am

This is an old post but here goes- the part of focusing on the target when pointing & swinging a shotgun has been covered. But to the original question of pointing a pistol- there are differences. Point Shooting a pistol is a similar concept to pointing a shotgun used by very experienced pistol shooters at relatively close distances...typically special forces types in CQB situations. This requires a very consistent presentation developed only through thousands of practice/training rounds where the concentration is mostly on the front sight. For the average shooter at distances beyond a few yards, in order to obtain any accuracy and consistency a full sight picture is necessary which is target- front sight- rear sight. Unless somebody is extremely practiced and has developed a near 100% consistent presentation with the pistol the rear sight picture is necessary to provide proper alignment of gun to target.
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Re: Shotgun pointing conundrum + pistol

Postby waterfowlhunter » Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:15 am

orphanedcowboy wrote:I never see the beads, just the bird. If the gun fits and you have a proper mount, it will point where you look.

Sporting Clays will help you develop a good mount, repetition enforces it, but if the gun doesn't fit, nothing short of a miracle will help



I Never see the bead or barrel only the bird. If you looking at the bead and rib you are not concentrating on the bird and are more likely to miss.
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Re: Shotgun pointing conundrum + pistol

Postby waterfowlhunter » Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:29 am

apexhunter wrote:Unless somebody is extremely practiced and has developed a near 100% consistent presentation with the pistol the rear sight picture is necessary to provide proper alignment of gun to target.


:thumbsup:

I shoot IDPA and most of those seasoned guys tell the new shooters to concentrate on the front sight and you will be on target. but the big difference is with a pistol/revolver your shooting 7 to 15 yards in most cases and your eyes can easily (at least mine can) focus on the front sight and the man size target 7 yards out. With a shotgun I'm focusing on a small bird out there at probably 30 yards. At one time years ago when I shot matches 600 yards with open sights it was no issue at all to see both the sights and the target. It is not as easy to do that the older I get.

The other thing with pistol or rifle in longer ranges such as hunting is that you are actually taking time to "aim" with slow steady trigger pull and proper sight to target alignment. With a shotgun it is usually a much faster pace.
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