My first post here

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My first post here

Postby Goose Calling Expert » Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:20 pm

Can one ask tough questions here?

Do you have to be a firm believer in the christian God to post here?

My wife has just went through some cancer issues and I have some tough questions.

I use to teach Sunday school (I still sub every now and then)

Thanks

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Postby 870 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:55 pm

ask away
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Postby Goose Calling Expert » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:36 pm

How can a loving God kill children and any other person he created?

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Postby OLD MISSALOT » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:23 pm

Life is'nt easy. Why does one mans life seem to be filled with triles and truoble while others go thruogh life without any bumps? I have watched people that are the salt of the earth strugle with just day to day needs. And some have everything go thier way. I can't tell you that I have any answers. I guess you just have to find the faith to go on. For me I hold on to the fact that I KNOW THAT MY REDEEMER LIVES.. :salude: :salude:
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Postby jjohnson_714 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:01 pm

i know in that Job asked the same type of question... God's response was that we have no idea whats going on in the big picture and since we know pretty much next to nothing on what is really going on, who are we to even question him or his motives... so in all honesty I have no clue what so ever on why things like that happen, but I just trust that God will make it all ok in the end :thumbsup:
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Postby 870 » Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:51 am

First off the question your asking is one of the oldest question asked about God. Its often asked like” Why does your loving God allow pain, suffering and death?”

The answer is not a short one so please hang with me; I’ll try to keep as short as possible.

You said you taught Sunday school, so open your bible to Genesis 3:16-17
Let me preference this first by saying God is a loving God. In 1John 4:7-8 it says “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God: and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.”

Lets go back to Gen 3:16-17 “ And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you shall surely die.”

Since you’ve taught Sunday school you may know the rest. When Adam and Eve ate every thing changed man fell from walking and communing with God as God set up. Sin, suffering and death entered the world. They did die that day spiritually and one day physically.

God gave man a thing called freewill. He gave us the ability to choose His will for our lives or we can choose are own, He loves us that much He will not make us do anything we don’t want to. Adam chose to eat thus, forever changing the world bringing sin and death into the lives of us that came after him.

His sin affects and infects us all. You don’t teach kids to steal or lie, you teach them not to, we all have now a sinful nature at birth, in a sense we all died spiritually the day Adam ate of the tree. Paul told the church at Rome “ For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ our Lord.”

As painful and seemly unfair or unjust as it is we all have an appointment do die. The writer of Hebrews wrote 9:27 and inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this come judgment” It’s a cold hard fact of life, we all must die young old we will die.

Then we meet God face to face and give an account for our lives for the things we did on this earth. God told the people of Israel “ I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants.” Deut 30:19.

The man who walked into the schoolhouse and shot the Amish girls chose to do so. The men who flue (sp?) the plains into the World Trade Center chose to do so. This world is not how God set it up, man made it this way by his own free will. Sickness and death affects us all because of mans free will.

God knew we would mess it up and choose our own will over His. He new we would need a savior. ‘For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God That’s where Jesus comes in We can’t escape the physical death but we can the spiritual one for Rom10:13 “Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved” I hope this helps :thumbsup:
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Postby Goose Calling Expert » Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:21 pm

Thanks for the replies. I use to view it that way til I started reading and teaching out of the bible.

God has done many many mean things documented in the old testiment.

I shall destroy your seeds and spread dung on you faces?

I know you put your heart into you answer but it did not clear up my question.

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Postby Gooseboy » Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:31 pm

I dont know what religeon you are but it sort of annoys me when people base EVERYTHING off of the bible. Catholics believe the bible can be interpreted differently. Like God made the world in 6 days. It doesnt necessarily mean it was made in 6 days just that it was made in a short amount of time.
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Postby 870 » Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:08 pm

I can understand that didn’t get anything out of the answer I gave you. Let me ask you a taught question.

Are you mad at God for what your wife went though or is going though? Search you hart and be honest.
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Postby Goose Calling Expert » Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:47 pm

Not even close to angry or upset.

She is doing fine.

I struggle with him killing children.

Thanks

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Postby 870 » Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:20 pm

That’s good news I’m glad she’s doing fine. In the Old Testament what you see as God being mean by killing men woman and children. Such as in Sodom and Gomorra was for the fact that there wasn’t any righteous in there except for Lots family. He’s not mean or cruel. What He’s exercising is what’s called righteous indignation. He had to put an end to all the evil that was in those cities.

What you have read in the Old Testament is nothing compared to what’s yet to come during the seven years tribulation

Again God will spare the righteous by taking them out just as He did with Lots family.

You must believe in God to think it’s wrong for Him to kill. Try this, pray and ask Him though the Holy Spirit to reveal to you why he did what He did. If you ask for the answer He’s going to give it to you. Be you ready for the answer.
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Postby Goose Calling Expert » Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:09 pm

Well I have such a hard time with this thinking of my own kids. Is Gods love greater for us then we have towards our children?

I could never imagine burning my kids forever if they thought wrong.

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Postby 870 » Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:49 pm

That’s just it; God doesn’t want anyone to burn in Hell You see if you live your life apart from God. He will let you spend eternity apart from Him as well. It’s your choice; remember that “free-will” thing.

It sounds like you have never come to the point of salvation. I don’t care how involved you were, or are at your church. Going to church or saying a prayer doesn’t make you a Christian. For if you had, you would have come to a place of knowing just how wicked WE really are.

At that point the Holy Spirit would of come and dwelt inside you and start to lead and teach you the things of God. He would of started leading you into all the truths pertaining to God. You would start to have a clearer understanding of God.

Somewhere along the way you’ve allowed the enemy to plant seeds of doubt in your mind pertaining to God and His Holiness. Don’t think you’re the first, go back to Gen and see what he did to Eve Gen 3:4-5 “and the serpent said to the woman, You surly shall not die!” Well guess what, she did die physically and spiritually

Man… he has you on a path you don’t want to be on. He put seeds of doubt into her mind about God, and he’s done the same to you. How can you sub at the Sunday school with these doubts you have about the Holiness of God? Man that’s got to be hard!

I believe your God conscience, meaning that you believe there is a God, but you haven’t come to the place of crying out looking to be saved from your sins, you haven’t come to a place of finding no peace from the thoughts of just how sinful your life really is.

There has to be a deep hunger for Gods righteousness in your life. (Righteous = being in right standing with God). You can only get that from God at the point of your salvation. I’m not saying everything is going to be crystal clear at first NOWAY but your going to be on the right road. “Seek and you shall find, knock and it will be opened to you” That’s a promise from God. Did you pray and ask the Holy Spirit to start to reveal Gods truths to you like I suggested. With your heart where it is, stuck in a sea of doubt their will never be an answer that will service

God operated in the Old Testament under the old covenant it was a very stern time, He gave people plenty of chances to change but if they didn’t He dealt with them sternly. Sometimes they died, but now we are under a new covenant its call the covenant of grace (grace = unmerited favor)

You know what pal, your moving to the top of my prayer list in a hurry

Later 870 peace out :thumbsup:
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Postby AWOTIS » Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:40 am

I can understand your question i've heard other people ask the same question. God is somewhat difficult to understand sometimes and other times he's clear as a bell. I belive that since we are gods children he loves us just as much as we do our own children and that He dosent want his children to suffer just like we dont wont our children to suffer.

I also belive like the indians do that in everyone's life bad things must happen just as good things must happen its all part of the great plan that God has for us. thats why some children die or have bad things happen to them.

As far as my kids burning for doing something wrong i belive that we are responsible for our children and that the burden goes on us till they can become resposible for them selves and that we need to bring them to God as soon as possible and to teach them right from wrong to help them be responsible.

I cant quote the bible like others do i just have the simple beliefs that i've been taught or have come to understand over the years. I learned that when i dont understand something of gods work i just give it up to God and say to God i dont understand what you have planed but since its your plan i'll trust you. It works for me anyway. Hope my .02 worth helps you and like the other guy ill put you in my prayers also..
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Postby Goose Calling Expert » Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:49 am

AWOTIS wrote:I belive that since we are gods children he loves us just as much as we do our own children and that He dosent want his children to suffer just like we dont wont our children to suffer.
..


IF your kid did not think correct could you burn them forever?

What act would make you burn your kids forever?

Thanks for the honest replies and prayers.

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Postby AWOTIS » Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:28 pm

OUR KIDS WONT BURN FOREVER BECAUSE WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR SINS. IT WILL BE US THAT HAVE TO ANSWER FOR THEM UNTILL THEY CAN LEARN AND BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEMSELVES.
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Postby 870 » Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:09 pm

Our kids won’t burn at all if they die before the “ age of accountability” this is time in their lives before they truly know the difference between right and wrong, good or evil.

When they reach the time when they understand and choose between the two, that’s when they become accountable for their own sins and not until.

GCE, try to understand, first God is a Holy and Righteous God. Second God is sovereign meaning He can do what He wants to whomever and whenever He wants.

The breath in your lungs is there because He wills it, your alive today because of His will for your life. The ability to question, reason and doubt is something He gave you.

The bible says the earth and all that’s in it belongs to the Lord. That includes you, even if you wish to believe it or not. Jesus is Lord and everyone will one day stand before Him.

Personally I don’t think there is an answer for your question, and I don’t think your really looking for one because you have set in your heart that God is someone who loves to though innocent little children into the fiery pits of hell just for something to do.

I’ll pray that He sends into your life the person that can help you work this thing out.

870 peace out and God bless
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Postby Goose Calling Expert » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:04 am

Sorry guys I should have been more clear. My kids will always be my kids and see loving them forever.

Even if my adult children turn into alcoholics or drug addicts I will still love them. I just can not in my mind think of anything that would make or make me want to burn them forever. I love them.

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Postby h2ofwlr » Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:12 pm

This is my viewpoint, where I am at. Take what you can use. It is not meant any disrespect to others beliefs, it is just my belief.

If God is Omnipitent, meaning all powerful and is everything, (all encompassing) do you think the burning in hell is his idea? Or the idea of Man?

For me, the God of my understanding is loving and caring, not vengeful at all. And if he/she/it is Omnipitent then how can there be there room for evil or the devil?

Thus the way I see it, evil, devil, pain, etc... is of our (mankind) own making. He is everything or he is not at all, I choose to say he is everything. As for the old testiment, remember it was Man that via word of mouth for countless generations it was told and then finally it was wriiten down, and thus not by God. Something to think about.

All I can say is I could not turn my life over to the care of a vengful God. But I can do that to a loving and caring God. And it works for me. :thumbsup:
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Postby 870 » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:15 pm

GCE, God doesn’t want anyone to burn in hell the bible says hell was created for Satan and the fallen angles. Christ said He didn’t come into the world to condemn it, but that it might be save though Him. Meaning for anyone who believes that He is the Son of God and that He came into the world as the sacrificial lamb, the only one that could pay the price for our sins. Will not burn in hell, but will live forever with Him.

It all boils down to choice; God will not make you or anyone have a relationship with Him. If you wish to live your life separate from Him, expect to spend eternity separate from Him.

At the time of our salvation we become the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. You become one of the children of God It’s only the righteous who will get in, sorry that’s a cold hard fact you will one day come face to face with. One of hells best kept secretes is it’s filled with good people, mans own goodness won’t get him into heaven only Gods righteousness will get him in.

I know as a father of three that its my responsibility to raise my kids knowing 1st that there is a God 2nd that He loves them 3rd that He wants to have a love relationship 4th that we are sinners and He sent His Son to pay the price for our sins. There is much more that I have taught them as the spiritual leader of my house. As fathers we carry the responsibility to train up our children in the ways of God, for their blood is on our hands.

I have to go, one of my kids needs to use the computer, Later Bro 870 peace out
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Postby Goose Calling Expert » Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:16 pm

870 wrote:GCE, One of hells best kept secretes is it’s filled with good people,


This sums up exactly what I am having problems with.

H2Ofowler what church do you go to? I may want to try that one.

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Postby 870 » Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:25 pm

well I tryed, later
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what the hell is going on?

Postby gracenjohn » Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:40 pm

GCE,

Every morning you wake up you have a choice. You can do good things, you can do bad things, or you can do nothing. The important thing is that you have a choice. God does not kill people. People kill people.

Abraham and Isaac may be a good story to review. Abraham never doubts God, unlke his bargaining for Sodom and Gomorrah, nor does he offer himself in Isaac's place. Abraham trusts God, and Isaac is spared for the Ram. A very simplistic description, and if you are interested, check out Kirkegaard.

I think we should ask these and other tough questions. Our free will has awesome responsibility attached to it. I'm with you, I like the sounds of H2O's God.
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Postby THIN MAN » Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:42 pm

It all boils down to faith. Not knowing nor understanding why things happen, but trusting him whole heartedly none the less.

HE has a plan for everyone, some to live a long healthy life yet others will go home at a very young age, it is not for us to ask why just trust in him that HE has a reason. If you ask him and you open your heart to him he will show you what your plan is.

GCE, you said that you where having problems with the fact that hell is filled with good people. Doing good deeds does not get you home, being SAVED gets you home.

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Postby 870 » Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:49 pm

THIN MAN wrote:
GCE, you said that you where having problems with the fact that hell is filled with good people. Doing good deeds does not get you home, being SAVED gets you home.

THIN MAN

great answer THIN MAN but he's not looking for an answer
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