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Postby Goose Calling Expert » Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:15 pm

870 wrote:GCE, God doesn’t want anyone to burn Later Bro 870 peace out


870 if this was a true statement no one would go to hell correct? God can and has the power to do what ever he wants correct? So if he does not anyone to go to hell they won't correct.

Or is it possiable God can not do what he wants?

Thanks is discussion is helping me understand it better.

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Postby jjohnson_714 » Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:29 pm

could God force us all to go to heaven? you bet, but then there is the whole thing where we are free to make up our own mind. pretty much when Jesus came and died he was like "ok here is the deal. i dont want anybody to go to hell, and i want you to spend an eternity with me. however there is one thing that you have to do. confess that Jesus is my son and your savior and it was by his death that your sins are forgiven and you are saved. that is it. if you don't do the that one small thing i ask of you, then you do not want to be with me. therefore you will be cast away from me and burn in hell. its your choice."

will there be "good" people in hell? you bet there will be, because just because you do good things with your life it doesnt mean that you confessed that jesus is their lord and savior. will there be "bad" people in heaven? perhaps, but once you see the truth then it is harder to do wrong.

do i believe that God is a loving God? yep i do. But you have to remember he's still the same guy who flooded the earth, killed armies, let his people go into captivity, and smited countless people for doing stupid stuff. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. he is unchanging. luckly we have Jesus though to interceed for us. :thumbsup:
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Postby 870 » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:54 pm

Right now in Heaven there is no sin or unrighteousness. God will not allow it, that’s why when Lucifer and 1/3 of the angles rebelled against God; He cast them from there. Heaven is for those who have received Jesus as Lord and Savior.

At that point you’re no longer seen as unrighteous, but righteous (in right standing with God the Father) it’s your faith in His Son Jesus Christ that brings about that change. You became born again, your name was written in the Lambs book of life. All of your past, present and future sins are and will be are forgiven. You are a new creation in Gods eyes. God the Holy Spirit comes and dwells in you, He leads you into all truths pertaining to God the Father. He will council you, guide you and convict you when you do something wrong.

The reason why I think your not really looking for an answer is, you have received it number times, but you will not see it. It all boils down to choice, He wants you to choose where you want to spend eternity. He required a blood sacrifice for the payment of sin in the Old Testament. It was up to the head of the household to choose weather or not to first buy, then take it to be sacrificed. God made it very clear, a lamb’s blood must be shed to the forgiveness of sin. So that the person would be in right standing with God = (righteous) in gods eyes.

The thing was, it had to happen year after year after year under the Old Covenant.
We are under a new covenant with God. There had to be still a sacrifice for sin, but this time God said that sacrifice for your sins would be my only begotten Son Christ Jesus, He will the lamb that takes away the sins of the world.

Rom 10:9-10 “that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
For with the heart one believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation”

Bottom line God will not force you to do anything you don’t want to, if you want to live a life separate from Him expect to spend eternity separate from Him AKA Hell

One last thing, are own human righteousness is, but fifthly rags unto Him We cant get good enough on our own. The righteousness we need to get into Heaven, He gives us, and it’s a gift from Him. You have to choose to receive it or not. He will let you make that choose.

Oh BTW the next time you quote me, please don’t edit the quote to make it say something other than what it was intended to. Later 870, peace out
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Postby Goose Calling Expert » Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:06 pm

870 wrote:GCE, God doesn’t want anyone to burn in hell the bible says hell was created for Satan and the fallen angles. Christ said He didn’t come into the world to condemn it, but that it might be save though Him. Meaning for anyone who believes that He is the Son of God and that He came into the world as the sacrificial lamb, the only one that could pay the price for our sins. Will not burn in hell, but will live forever with Him.

It all boils down to choice; God will not make you or anyone have a relationship with Him. If you wish to live your life separate from Him, expect to spend eternity separate from Him.

At the time of our salvation we become the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. You become one of the children of God It’s only the righteous who will get in, sorry that’s a cold hard fact you will one day come face to face with. One of hells best kept secretes is it’s filled with good people, mans own goodness won’t get him into heaven only Gods righteousness will get him in.

I know as a father of three that its my responsibility to raise my kids knowing 1st that there is a God 2nd that He loves them 3rd that He wants to have a love relationship 4th that we are sinners and He sent His Son to pay the price for our sins. There is much more that I have taught them as the spiritual leader of my house. As fathers we carry the responsibility to train up our children in the ways of God, for their blood is on our hands.

I have to go, one of my kids needs to use the computer, Later Bro 870 peace out


870 What does BTW mean? By the way I am guessing.

Here is your whole quote I am sorry I did not post it in its entirerty last time.

You first sentence is what I was asking about "GCE, God doesn’t want anyone to burn in hell the bible says hell was created for Satan and the fallen angles. "

So are you saying God does not anyone anyone to burn in hell?

I thought from my reading the bible Jesus came with a sword.

Thanks and again sorry if I offend you by not posting your whole quote.

Thanks

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Postby 870 » Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:37 pm

GCE, you didn’t offend me at all, I just didn’t want someone to misunderstand the quote.

If God wanted people to burn in Hell, then what was the point of sending Jesus to die on the cross for our sins?

Let me ask you a question, what sets Christianity apart form all other religions?

1. To obtain and maintain the level of Holiness God requires from us we can only do it by the power of the Holy Spirit living with in us. All other forms of religion you can reach and maintain theirs only with human effort.
2. Lets look at Islam; a sure way of getting to their heaven is to die a martyr’s death. After you have died for their God, you enter into their idea of heaven and receive 70 virgins.

What really sets Christianity apart is, are God said I will die for you and you must live for me. Only a loving God would say such a thing not a God who wants s to send all of us to hell.

God has been doing everything He can since the fall of man to get you into heaven. Do you know anyone who would give up there life for you, what maybe one or two?
Now do you know anyone who would give their only son’s life in exchange for yours, I doubt it!!! I know I don’t

God in a sense said, I don’t care if you hate me I still will have my Son die for your sins. Because I love you that much and I want to spend all of eternity with you.

I’m sure your just toying with me, but it’s been fun. I truly hope God sends someone into your life that can answer all of your questions.

Later Bro 870 peace out :cool:
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Postby inthelips » Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:43 pm

I know that I am jumping in here late, but I would have say that God actually created a miracle with the healing of your wife! He created beauty and joy for both of you. And, if you have children or plan on having children, they will be blessed with a loving mother! Praise the Lord!
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Postby Goose Calling Expert » Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:36 am

870, I am kind of offended that you feel I am toying with you. That is why I asked first if I could ask tough questions.

The biggest thing I have found different about Christianity is we have had a resurrection of a person.

The guy Myrta was born before Jesus and was born of a virgin etc. He did not rise from the dead.

Seems you know your bible well :cool:

In Numbers I have found were any Christian who died fighting for the lord would receive 32 virgins in heaven so to me that is kind of like Islam.

Thanks

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Postby 870 » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:50 pm

My apologies GCE that wasn’t my intention I was just kidding around, that’s why I said it was fun. Sometimes when I try to be funny it ether isn’t, or it makes me sound stupid my bad. :oops:

As far as the verse in Numbers I’ll have to study up on that one, I not familiar with it.

Once again my apologies
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Postby Goose Calling Expert » Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:11 pm

No problem hope I did not act like it is my time of the month!

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Postby 870 » Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:11 pm

Goose Calling Expert wrote:[
I thought from my reading the bible Jesus came with a sword.
GCE

If you’re referring to Matt 10:34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword”. One thing we can’t afford to do is take scripture out of context to make it say what we want it to say. To truly understand what the Lord is saying we need to leave it in context. That verse is just one of nineteen verse’s talking about the cost of discipleship.

In a nutshell to be a disciple of Christ, it might cost us a relationship with our families, and that our love of Him makes our love for them seem like hated compared to our love for Him. He doesn’t expect you to turn on and hate your family

He speaks of the “sword” He’s referring to the Word of God and that’s the will of God.
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Postby duckdog » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:25 pm

There is only one answer for the original question, and only one person knows it and that person would be God!!!

I can only accept, and try to understand gods will, even if there is times of doubt. Best example I can give is my wife. Before I met her she lost a little girl at birth. It would devastate me, and I'm sure it did her for a while, but now when asked how she dealt with it, she will say that God had much better plans for her, and needed her in heaven.

Not for real sure why your hung up on the question so much, unless you have had tragedy with your kids, or know of someone who has. IMO, it is kind of like a test of faith, if someone you know, or love is ill, or in trouble, how far are they ,or you willing to go to help them get out of trouble, or become welll. Would you give your income to a homeless person so they could eat, would you give your kidney to a person you did'nt know. I would'nt, I might give someone money to help them out, or ask for prayer for somebody ill.

That is why we need God, and jesus. We do wrong every day, and if we confess are sins, and ask for forgivness, and do are best to follow gods will. We shall be saved.

If you truly question gods will, at times and honestly want an answer. Do as someone said here earlier. Go to a church, lake where ever it may be for ya, that is peaceful, and quiet. Sit down and talk to God, and ask him for answer. You must be sincere, and open to it, and I gaurantee you will either get your answer, or be at peace with the topic. I speak from experience. Almost a year ago my little boy was in a hospital, having open heart surgery, and had some issues afterwords. Was very scary for a while, and all I wanted to know was why him, what did he do. I went down to the chapel, and prayed like I have never prayed before, and also talked to God. And let me tell you he answered, without saying a word. At that moment I had such a feeling of relief,happiness, and calmness just rip right through me, that I knew he was there with me. Pure awesomeness, went back up stairs and not long after everything was alright. Can I explain it NO WAY, but I tell you it was real, and will never again ask why God would do something, no matter how wrong it may seem. Good luck in your quest.
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Postby Goose Calling Expert » Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:39 pm

inthelips wrote:I know that I am jumping in here late, but I would have say that God actually created a miracle with the healing of your wife! He created beauty and joy for both of you. And, if you have children or plan on having children, they will be blessed with a loving mother! Praise the Lord!


In the lips I hear where you are coming from. If you went to the doctor and he cut you with his scalpel and then stitched you up would you thank him?

That is what started me down this dark path. He is God and he allowed or gave my wife cancer. It seems so odd to thank him for curing her after allowing or giving her cancer.

Thanks for your reply.

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Postby Chiloquin » Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:58 am

Goose Calling Expert wrote:Not even close to angry or upset.

She is doing fine.

I struggle with him killing children.

Thanks

GCE

What if God knew those children would Grow up to hate him? you see if God accepts anything other then perfection then he himself wouldn't be perfect! God, cannot support anything that has fallen out of the perfection that He created. The question isn't why did God kill those people? the question is why didn't he kill us all? There is olny one answer GRACE.
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Postby Chiloquin » Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:01 pm

870 wrote:Right now in Heaven there is no sin or unrighteousness. God will not allow it, that’s why when Lucifer and 1/3 of the angles rebelled against God; He cast them from there. Heaven is for those who have received Jesus as Lord and Savior.

At that point you’re no longer seen as unrighteous, but righteous (in right standing with God the Father) it’s your faith in His Son Jesus Christ that brings about that change. You became born again, your name was written in the Lambs book of life. All of your past, present and future sins are and will be are forgiven. You are a new creation in Gods eyes. God the Holy Spirit comes and dwells in you, He leads you into all truths pertaining to God the Father. He will council you, guide you and convict you when you do something wrong.

The reason why I think your not really looking for an answer is, you have received it number times, but you will not see it. It all boils down to choice, He wants you to choose where you want to spend eternity. He required a blood sacrifice for the payment of sin in the Old Testament. It was up to the head of the household to choose weather or not to first buy, then take it to be sacrificed. God made it very clear, a lamb’s blood must be shed to the forgiveness of sin. So that the person would be in right standing with God = (righteous) in gods eyes.

The thing was, it had to happen year after year after year under the Old Covenant.
We are under a new covenant with God. There had to be still a sacrifice for sin, but this time God said that sacrifice for your sins would be my only begotten Son Christ Jesus, He will the lamb that takes away the sins of the world.

Rom 10:9-10 “that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
For with the heart one believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation”

Bottom line God will not force you to do anything you don’t want to, if you want to live a life separate from Him expect to spend eternity separate from Him AKA Hell

One last thing, are own human righteousness is, but fifthly rags unto Him We cant get good enough on our own. The righteousness we need to get into Heaven, He gives us, and it’s a gift from Him. You have to choose to receive it or not. He will let you make that choose.

Oh BTW the next time you quote me, please don’t edit the quote to make it say something other than what it was intended to. Later 870, peace out
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Postby Chiloquin » Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:55 pm

Goose Calling Expert wrote:
inthelips wrote:I know that I am jumping in here late, but I would have say that God actually created a miracle with the healing of your wife! He created beauty and joy for both of you. And, if you have children or plan on having children, they will be blessed with a loving mother! Praise the Lord!


In the lips I hear where you are coming from. If you went to the doctor and he cut you with his scalpel and then stitched you up would you thank him?

That is what started me down this dark path. He is God and he allowed or gave my wife cancer. It seems so odd to thank him for curing her after allowing or giving her cancer.

Thanks for your reply.

GCE
Im trying to say this as gentle as possible. God didn't give your wife cancer we did. The second that adam and eve took their lives in their own hands they introduced the world to a curse. when I was told this I said ," ya, but that was Adam And Eve, not me!." but the problem was that I knew I had agreed with them the first chance I got. God created us to follow him as created beings, but by trying to control our own lives (eating the fruit, and what we/I still don't give to him today) we are saying that we can play God Better then God. This is where all sin has come form, we are all guilty of it and will be until we enter the new heaven and new earth. Now your wife is caught under this curse, thats where the cancer came from. The curse that we chose. You see God is Just, when we rebelled(we all have and still do) we drought justice on ourselves. God said the payment for sin is death, not just for the sinner but for all the earth. The earth has to pay for our sins, it is also caught up in the curse that we unleashed. Your wife is affected in that same way, as well as you and I. My first thought is- thats not fair! Its not but thats the way it is, God says its not fair that he should have to die on the cross and feel the ultimate evil that humanity can dish out. Now this brings us to one last point why? How else would God make a being that he set out to make in the beginning, in his own immiage(free thinking, with a personality), that would love him (love requires a choice) and that would still call him King? it makes scense that he would make a temporary world that mirrors the perfect world yet to come. In this world God would have to create the potiential for sin, I.E> the choice to rule our own lives ( the tree of good and evil) and retibution for that sin. When we find out that we all have sinned we realize that there is no way that we could be God(the old testament). We know what perfection is but we never reach it. This realization leaves us looking for salvation, Sets us up to accept God as king, "Jesus." -Not out of being forced, but out of Love, and all Love requires a choice. So in order to create humans in the way God wanted, he also had to allow the earth to be the way it is now, and that is the reason your wife has gone thru what she did, But God never expected us to go thru it alone, he never said do as I say not as I do. God Took the full brunt of sin on the cross, he personally took on all of the evil this earth can dish out. Think through what God would have to do in order to make humans the way the Bible says he wants them. Our world sin in all, looks like the most reasonable way he could achieve his will on that point.
My prayer goes out to you and your wife my friend. Remember there is nothing wrong with being mad at the cancer, after all God is hates the sin that brought the plague on us.
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Postby thaner » Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:34 pm

One must remember and understand that God is perfect. Often people talk about being good. How good are you compared to perfection? God is holly and perfect in all ways. Perfection can't abide imperfection or sin not even one sin. If God just let this and that go and said well you are good enough would that be a God you would want to serve? A God that makes judgment calls and puts up with things? That sounds like man's standard not God's. I want to serve a perfect God. If we really look deep into our heat and look at it the way God does, and compare our hearts to his standards we will all see that we are very evil. The problem is that often unbelievers have a hard time getting to the point where they can truly see just how bad they are. I never understood how bad I was until I was saved. Then my eyes were open and I could see just how sinful I was. God can’t have a relationship with sinful man. It is only by the blood of Christ that we can stand before God blameless. If you reject Christ and God then you are not a child of God. You are a child of the world and the devil and God can’t have a relationship with you. An eternity apart from God is hell. With out the good of God you are left with hell.

It is often difficult to endure trials and tribulations in life, but these are the things that make us grow and mature if we are believers. If we are not believers these things are often what brings us to God. What need of God would we have if everything was all roses and we had no problems?

Because of the fall of man and the entrance of sin into the world we must all die. Is it worse for a child to die young and be with God or for a child to live a long life and spend an eternity in hell? I have two small children. I love them very much. I would rather they died tomorrow and spent eternity in haven than grow old and reject God.

One-day things will change when Christ rules. This is the day of man. God uses the things of this world to bring his own to him, but not all will come. God want volunteers not slaves. He wants all to be saved, but he will let you decide. Remember he can’t have a relationship with you if you do not accept Christ’s sacrifice and acknowledger your own sinfulness.

We like to blame God for everything, but God made a perfect world. We messed it up and now we blame God for the mess, and we want him to just let us off and take our few good deeds as good enough, but God is perfect so perfect is the only thing that is good enough. It is fortunate that God is a loving God and by grace gave us a way out of our mess. All we have to do is take it. Don’t confuse a loving God with a push over God. God will punish those who reject him. He will not tolerate evil.
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Postby 870 » Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:28 pm

Chiloquin, I was speaking of those who are up in heaven, the saints who have gone on before us. The Scripture in Rev 12:10 does say that Satan goes before God and accuses us day and night. I’m sure that’s just the thrown room of God, not all heaven itself.

Here’s a list of those who will not enter

Mt. 7:21, 25:41 Lk. 13:27, 1 Cor. 6:9 Gal. 5:21 Rev 21:8, 22:15

Great answer thanner, I really like the part that He doesn't want slaves :thumbsup:

So many think that when we become Christians thats what we become. Thats not even close, instead if becoming slaves, we are set free from the laws of sin and death. :cool:
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Postby thaner » Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:33 pm

870 wrote:
So many think that when we become Christians thats what we become. Thats not even close, instead if becoming slaves, we are set free from the laws of sin and death. :cool:


So true. Just because one serves God doesn’t make you a slave. So many people feel they would be restricted with rules and give up freedoms, but they don't realize that thy really gain freedom for the first in life when they choose to follow and serve the Lord. It is a hard concept for our society. It's a much easier concept I think for those that lived in the past under a king or other similar government. To serve a king that is just and righteous is true freedom from the worries of the world. You are completely taken care of and have noting to fear and not need for anything, and the only things you loose out on are the things that are destructive to you and others. Not a bad system; however, there has never been a ruler that could provide this, but there will be. :thumbsup:
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Postby maddiedog » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:11 pm

Wow very interesting thread! I can't believe I have never seen this forum before. I am an elementary teacher and love children. My favorite story in the bible is when Jesus is preaching and the children try to hear him. The disciples start to chase them away and Jesus tells them to let the children come onto him. He is a very loving God! If he were not as loving we would all be dead for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. I have never had the extreme unfortunate experience of a loved one going through cancer. I am absolutley positive that God has a purpose for all of this. What is that purpose? Sorry I don't think you will find that answer until you see our Lord and Savior face to face. Then none of this trivial life will matter. The way I see it is if she is healed she can witness to many people of God's love and mercy. Our purpose on life is to be diciples and what more of a better way? :thumbsup:
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Postby thaner » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:58 pm

:welcome: maddiedog. I should spend more time here myself.

It is interesting to look at the disciples as examples, both bad and good. It is very interesting to look at all the mistakes and issues they made. They were followers, but in the old way and not in the new way that came with the death and resurrection of Christ. You can really see the changes can't you! What an example of what true belief and acceptance of Christ as your savior does in ones life.

We all go through trial and tribulation in life. Sometimes we are healed and sometime not, but either way God can use it. I have had thing happen that at the time I couldn't possibly have understood why. Many years later I can see partly why, but I still probably don't see the big picture like God does. How can we sympathize and help people through difficult times and have truly great faith if we have not suffered our selves and had to really totally on God for our strength?
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Postby 870 » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:20 pm

thaner, thats a whole lot of truth spoken right there :thumbsup:
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Postby littlesturgeon » Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:52 pm

God will NEVER give you a problem that will not be ableo bear
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Postby DuckBrother » Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:00 pm

Well said 870!
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Postby woollybugger » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:52 am

Life is so short compared to eternity. What we do in this short mortal experience sets the course for us in the hereafter. I have read a lot of really good posts. I would like to add something. We someone asks me why God kills children, or causes diseases, wars, etc.; I interrupt them and clarify, that God does not kill children, or do any harmful thing to us. Everything we experience is for our benefit if we choose to have faith in Jesus Christ and follow him. Free agency, and the fact that we are in a mortal state cut off from God (Adam and Eve could tell you something about this) makes us subject to all of these terrible things. What we do to each other and not being with God is the reason for the suffering and trials in life. Something I have realized since losing someone dear a few months ago is that 'life on earth' isn't about life. It's about what we are to do after this life.
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Postby Modified_Choking » Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:50 pm

[quote="Goose Calling Expert"]Not even close to angry or upset.

She is doing fine.

I struggle with him killing children.

Thanks

GCE[/quote]

Here's my thought on this...God killing children.

I don't beleive God "kills" children any more than your gun "kills" waterfowl. There has to be a physical, natural and real worldly force behind the trigger mechanism - namely your trigger finger. As for what "kills" children the physical, natural and real worldly forces vary be it disease, people with evil in their heart, careless mistakes, etc. Consequently, in my understanding of these matters, we live on earth. And, sadly there are things that happen to people (regardless of age) on earth. But, again do I think it is God doing it? I say no.

The natural argument would be to debate that God, in His infinite power and wisdom, could stop such things from happening. I say He does - we just may never know about it. Nonetheless, the answer to this argument is in the argument itself - "...in His infinite power and wisdom..." That's exactly it, God has ultimate power and wisdom. If one chooses not to beleive as such, that is the choice God has allowed each one of us to make at a reasonable age of understanding. Nonetheless, truth is still truth regardless.
I'm talkin bout the Lifestyle of the not so rich and famous.
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