Who does not believe in God or Jesus Christ?

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Do you believe in God and Jesus Christ?

Yes
179
83%
No
27
13%
Don't Know
9
4%
 
Total votes : 215

Who does not believe in God or Jesus Christ?

Postby E4C4ever » Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:57 pm

I was curious as to know who does NOT believe in God and his son Jesus Christ! And, Why?
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Postby thaner » Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:57 pm

Unfortunately for many, the belief in a God or that Jesus Christ existed is not sufficient for anything. :no:
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Postby MinnesotaDan » Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:35 pm

Whether or not Jesus existed isn't the question. Even secular historians agree Jesus existed. The question is whether you believe he died for your sins or not.
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Postby DUJUNKIE » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:47 pm

MinnesotaDan wrote:Whether or not Jesus existed isn't the question. Even secular historians agree Jesus existed. The question is whether you believe he died for your sins or not.


i agree totlally
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Postby XR-2 Fan » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:30 pm

The crazy thing is the people that don't believe in him are counting time by him and probably don't even know it!!!
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Postby YAMAHA RIDER » Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:11 pm

MinnesotaDan wrote:Whether or not Jesus existed isn't the question. Even secular historians agree Jesus existed. The question is whether you believe he died for your sins or not.


RIGHT ON :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I do :thumbsup:
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Postby drake~slayer » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:42 pm

I truly do not understand how people can not believe in Him. Jesus died for our sins. We are saved because of him. Everytime i go hunting, after we set up our deeks and right before shoot time, My friend and i bow our heads and Praise God. We thank him for allowing us to be out there in His country. We pray for a safe and bountifull day of hunting. We also pray afterwords. The feeling is amazing. We could not enjoy these gifts without Gods blessings. I hope and pray that you all have a safe off season. God bless you all.
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I do

Postby blazer68 » Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:10 pm

I do eventhough I have premarital sax
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Re: Who does not believe in God or Jesus Christ?

Postby doehunter » Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:55 pm

OK I'll bite!
I was raised in a strict Baptist family, 1 brother,2 sisters. Sundays, Wednesday nights, choir. Baptized when I was about 10 yrs old.
In my family, there was no choice. We were christians. As I see it, much of America is the same way, sort of.
Everybody talks about how it's your choice, but if you make the wrong one then you're an outcast and disrespected. Even people who don't go to church will freak out if you say you just don't believe.
Consider this.
If God existed before there was anything else and he created everything, then where did he come from?
I can't accept "he just always was".
If God was here before everything and knows the future (your future), then he purposely created an imperfect species that will fail to live up to his all perfect standards, and the majority of which is destined for hell. Since the future is already planned out, where is the choice in that?
Prayer. I can't say that I have ever seen any effect except to make people feel better about themselves.
Can you pray the flue away? No. Cancer? No. World hunger? No. Can I pray for a 6 shot limit of ducks and get it? No.
In the Bible, you read about a lot of impossible things, such as when Moses went to free the slaves, and he cast down his cane, it turned into a snake. Then wizards did it too. Anyone ever seen anything like that? It just doesn't happen.
If you spend a few days in the gullet of a whale, don't you think you would suffocate, and then be digested from the acids in there?
In earlier posts I saw comments like "how can you not believe". I hear people say "I just know it's real" and so on.
The truth is, regardless of how you feel or what you think you know. There just isn't any proof either way.
When I'm with my family now, I listen to them rattle on about the lord this and the lord that. Never mind that my mother has been in a nursing home for the last 15 years, my father has alzheimers,bronchitis, emphysema, etc. They pray about all that every day. And for what? I have to stay quiet and not say what's on my mind.
I recently told my oldest sister what I think, and found that to be a big mistake. Now we don't talk.
How's that for love?
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Re: Who does not believe in God or Jesus Christ?

Postby doehunter » Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:22 am

Guys,
I apologize for the above rant. I guess I have issues.
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Re: Who does not believe in God or Jesus Christ?

Postby thaner » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:49 am

Hi Jim!

I am glad you commented. The fact that you are in this forum at all and took the time to me shows you are not totally closed to God.

I was raised in a strict Baptist family also, and I wondered away as soon as I got away from home. I learned that what I was taught from the bible about life was correct. I found my way back, or I should say God pulled me back. The strictness of the Baptist church kind of put me off. I am in a great bible church now and loving it and the Lord.

No one should be an outcast if their eyes are not open. Everyone is in that place at some point. Christ came to save the lost. If you are an outcast then those who treat you that way need to get right with God, because it was not Christ's way. The religious Jews thought that way, and Christ did not go easy on them for that type of talk.

You make a lot of common points about what some consider to be good sound arguments against the existence of God. Someone who knows their bible, history, archaeology................. better than I could give you so much data your head would be swimming. I will just hit the highlights.

There are certain things in the bible that you will not fully understand as a human on the earth. God made you from dirt. Do you really thing the created can fully understand the power that crated it? Go make you a mud man and see if you can get him to understand you. God doesn't go into somethings further because you would just be confused even more. Even if it was explained fully you still need faith; that is what it all comes down to. More data will not help you there. The bible has what you need. Don't worry about where God comes from because once you know God exists and your life is altered does it really matter?

God knows the future (your future). However, He did not purposely created an imperfect species. Man was perfect and without sin when created, but had freedom of choice. There is a difference between knowing what will happen and making it happen. God uses all things to bring glory to him and to work out his plan, but He doesn't make you do what you do. He just allows it and uses it to the final end. It was man's free will to sin. It was not God's desire. With God's help I made a couple kids. I see their choices, and I know what those choices will bring. I try to teach them better. I don't make them do those things or make the outcome happen. I made them even though I know they will suffer in life and die. They could even reject God and go to hell. However, I see real spiritual growth in them not just going along with the flow like you and I did as kids. Wow, I must not really care or love them!? I tell them what it right, they make a bad choice, and I let them suffer the consequences so they will learn and grow. Would you rather be a robot? What glory would God get from being served by those who have no choice at all? How good would your friends or wife be to you if they were with you without any choice in it? Angels know God without question. There is no faith issues there and they probably don't know where God came from exactly. The fallen ones still made a choice and will pay for it.

Those who call out to God, but don't have a personal relationship with Christ have no prayer power unless it is the prayer for salvation. Even those who are saved, but who's hart is not right have little prayer power. The bible is very clear about that. God is not a magic lamp to grant all your wishes. Prayer should always be in the form of God's will. Sometimes it is in God's will and sometimes it is not. Answers to prayer can be yes, no, or wait. God's timing is not always our timing. Some things happen, we want out, but God has a plan, and getting out of it is not in that plan. Sometimes what we want to pray our way out of is something that is a consequence of our actions, and we need to suffer it. Remember my example of my children? We don't learn much if we get bailed out of everything.

Your hear is not in the right place and you are lost. You are not going to see much of anything from prayer unless it is for salvation. For those who believe, answered prayers are not uncommon at all. You don't see them because you are not in a body of believers actively where you can have a relationship with them and see what prayer is doing everyday. I could go on for pages. And yes I have seen cancer and other things disappear and completely baffle doctors. I could go on for hours about all the things in my life that have been the direct result of God and prayer. I have also seen dear saints die a slow miserable death, but reach out and touch so many people with their witness for Christ and then go home to him. Praise God!

Nothing is impossible for God. There are no impossible things in the Bible. Science can't disprove the bible. History and archaeology can't disprove the Bible. Hundreds of arguments against the Bible have been shot down over the years by what we dig up from the middle east. Others by what science is just starting to learn. The Bible states many things like the earth being round, the universe ever expanding and many other things that took science a couple thousand years to figure out. They will figure a few more out as time goes on. God crated everything from nothing so a snake from a stick is not big thing. God's plan is in full swing. The things of the old testament Bible were done to show the world about God, and the coming of Christ. Christ has been here and the miracles of that time were used to show who he was. There is no more need for that stuff now. Christ has come. We have the Bible. Those who are saved have the Holly Spirit. We are in the time between Christ's first coming and second coming. Also consider that the there are times where long periods of time passes and no major sign of God or a profit were actively visible to the general public. The thinks of the Bible were not everyday stuff. Hang on to your seat, because the things of Revelation are next. If you are around for that you will see plenty and in the end all will stand before God. Many people saw great miracles in the past and still didn't believe. Faith is not an eye thing; it is a heart thing.

Do you know the digestive speed of a large fish's system? It was a large fish. Current translations say whale, but we don't know that for sure so we don't know how that fish's system worked. It could be one that digest very small things and not a big thing like Jonah. God crated everything so keeping someone in a fish's stomach for a few days is not big deal. Christ raised people from the dead. The fish thing is child's play for God. Besides, he was probably dead in the fish and brought back to life. If you read the story you will find he was not so great looking when he came back out of the fish so don't count out death or some digestive activity. The people were shocked by his appearance and that is probably part of why they listened to him.

When you are truly saved you are a different person and it is easy to say "how can you not believe", because you know, and it is so real you can't imagine how others can't believe. However, if you were not save as a child you just need to remember there was a time when you didn't believe. To a non-believer there is no proof and no knowing. That is because you are lost my friend. When you are saved you do know because life is never the same. It is the power of God's salvation in lives that is the most obvious proof of His existence in our current time, and God's greatest tangible miracle to me. Drugs, doctors, social workers, prison systems, ............. can't make the miraculous changes that salvation has done in the lives of the lost. There are millions of stories about murderers, thieves, rapists, prostitutes, drunks, drug attics...................wicked evel me.............who's lives have been miraculously transformed forever. That is power! Power you can experience! But you will not get there with your head. You have to call on God with your heart and really ask him in to change you and open your eyes. That is where you will find God. Step out on faith and ask him with all your heart to open your eyes to him. If you will do that God will work in your life. He is doing it right now through this.

God is love. Christ showed love to the lowest of people he came into contact with when he was here. Any believer that turns a back on you because you don't believe needs some spiritual growth. It is through the difficult times in life that we do grow. Your sister needs to do some more Bible study, and growing if she is really turning a back on you. However, if you are being a pain and disruptive to the family in time or crisis you may need to be at arm's length a little. It is through the difficult times in life that we grow and many times open up to God. It is through difficult times that we see the power of God. If all was well, we had no challenges, sickness or trouble in life we would all be lost because we would all be just fine without God. This life will be suffering and death due to man's sin. We all sin and most of what we suffer in life has to do with our choices. Some due to others choices. Some due to Adam's choices. The Bible is very clear about that. Christ, the son of God, suffered and died, and He was without sin. Do you think you will have it any better? You probably will not have near the hard life or death He had. However, for the saved we have God, and we don't have to fear death. Eternity is our home, not his word. If you are lost, eternity will not be a good thing. The suffering of this life will be minor in comparison.

Jim, reach out to God and open you heart. You have done the church thing, but you have not opened the heart and know the Saviour. There is a huge difference.

I am praying for you now,

Todd
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Re: Who does not believe in God or Jesus Christ?

Postby shoot-n-goose » Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:44 pm

Now I'll prolly catch flack for this, but I also have a hard time believing. I grew up going to Catholic elementary and junior high schools. When I look at the facts from a scientific standpoint, none of it adds up. Simple example, the Bible says that Adam and Eve were created and put on the earth, followed by all animals. If that is true, why do we know that dinosaurs existed long before humans ever walked the earth, or why are dinosaurs not referenced in the book. I have nothing against people who believe, only when they try to convince me otherwise. The question I ask is if the Bible never existed, would you still believe?
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Re: Who does not believe in God or Jesus Christ?

Postby Pa'peake » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:17 am

I most "definately believe in both" but I have a question? How many believe God the Creator and Jesus his Son are one in the same and not seperate? I for one believe they are the same in purpose but definately seperate individuals for as Jesus said he came to not do his will but the will of his father in heaven.
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Re: Who does not believe in God or Jesus Christ?

Postby doehunter » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:50 pm

shoot-n-goose wrote:Now I'll prolly catch flack for this, but I also have a hard time believing. I grew up going to Catholic elementary and junior high schools. When I look at the facts from a scientific standpoint, none of it adds up. Simple example, the Bible says that Adam and Eve were created and put on the earth, followed by all animals. If that is true, why do we know that dinosaurs existed long before humans ever walked the earth, or why are dinosaurs not referenced in the book. I have nothing against people who believe, only when they try to convince me otherwise. The question I ask is if the Bible never existed, would you still believe?


Shoot-n-goose,
That's what I mean. Things just don't add up. Consider the Adam and Eve story. If the 2 of them and their sons were the first people on the planet. No other people. How did they multiply, incest?
How about Noah's flood. Did a pair of every species on the planet really fit on the same boat together without eating each other? Even today you couldn't get a pair of every species on earth on one ship. And if you did, the gene pool would be shot. How long would it take a polar bear to walk from the north pole to say Iraq? (without dying from the heat!)
I have heard baptist radio talk shows, where they claim the dinosaur fossils were put there by God to keep us busy or something, that the dinosaurs didn't really exist! They say the earth is only about 12,000 yrs old. While carbon dating may not be perfect, I think it's better than that. There are human type fossils dated at 3-4 million years. And as you said, animal fossils much older than that.
Like you, I don't have a problem with people who want to believe, but I do have a problem when they assume they know better than the non believers and try to run their lives too. For instance, the churches like the separation of church and state for tax reasons, but have no problem with their people running for office and running the country.
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Re: Who does not believe in God or Jesus Christ?

Postby Nomeite » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:08 pm

No, I do not believe in God as a Personal God that looks after me from the heavens, and had a son in created in our image. I do believe in most things that the Cristain faith believies in treat eachother fairily, try to better yourself and your community, support and cherrish your family.
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Re:

Postby xtrema2shooter » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:50 am

MinnesotaDan wrote:Whether or not Jesus existed isn't the question. Even secular historians agree Jesus existed. The question is whether you believe he died for your sins or not.



You are 100% incorrect!

Let me preface this by saying that I DO believe that Jesus the Christ exisited. I'm more devout in my belief and worship than most, and I know in my heart with certainty that he walked the Earth.

That said... there's absolutely no historical documentation to support that. No mention in the Roman tax rolls, census data, execution records, etc. The earliest references to him in the non-Biblical record come from Roman historians Flavius Josephus (about 60 years after the crucifiction of Jesus) and Tacitus (about 70 years after the crucifiction of Jesus). Both are known by modern historians to be wildly inaccurate at times.

There just aren't any contemporary accounts or verification of the existance of Jesus outside of the Biblical Canon. When we look at the Bible-- scholars generally agree that the oldest books of the New Testament are Thessalonians (ca 52 AD -- 19 or so years after the crucifiction) and James (ca 64 AD-- 30 years after the crucifiction)-- neither claim to have known Jesus in the flesh. Matthew and John both claim to have known Jesus in the flesh, but both were written at the end of the first century AD -- they would have been VERY old men for that time. Scholars generally agree that neither book was actually written by THE Matthew and THE John of the Bible.

I welcome dissention on the topic, and if someone has evidence, I'd be delighted to hear it... but that evidence can't come from the Bible, it has to come from an outside source to have historical credibility.
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Re: Who does not believe in God or Jesus Christ?

Postby xtrema2shooter » Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:14 am

Wow... I wasn't paying attention to the date... dunno why the thread got dredged up, but I responded to a 2 year old post, and I try to make a point of not doing that... sorry!
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Re: Who does not believe in God or Jesus Christ?

Postby Bill Herian » Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:07 pm

Don't feel bad, you dredged up a nearly 2000 year old post. No shame in that.
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Re: Who does not believe in God or Jesus Christ?

Postby swampbilly 1980 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:13 am

If you had the last supper that evening with Jesus, and was still doubtful,..one could have waited outside of the tomb with the Roman guard that was with it for 3 days...they didn't do that. And if someone wanted to prove that after 3 days, he wouldn't rise,..they could have taken his body (stolen it) kept it for 3 days and paraded it through the streets,..that didn't happen...the body was gone and the tomb was empty,..and still is....the body wrappings were "folded",..as one would do with a towel or a sheet, or a blanket,..as if you are planning to return....
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Re: Who does not believe in God or Jesus Christ?

Postby swampbilly 1980 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:13 am

Bill Herian wrote:Don't feel bad, you dredged up a nearly 2000 year old post. No shame in that.

...... :thumbsup:
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Re: Re:

Postby Preacher1011 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:46 pm

xtrema2shooter wrote:
MinnesotaDan wrote:Whether or not Jesus existed isn't the question. Even secular historians agree Jesus existed. The question is whether you believe he died for your sins or not.



You are 100% incorrect!

Let me preface this by saying that I DO believe that Jesus the Christ exisited. I'm more devout in my belief and worship than most, and I know in my heart with certainty that he walked the Earth.

That said... there's absolutely no historical documentation to support that. No mention in the Roman tax rolls, census data, execution records, etc. The earliest references to him in the non-Biblical record come from Roman historians Flavius Josephus (about 60 years after the crucifiction of Jesus) and Tacitus (about 70 years after the crucifiction of Jesus). Both are known by modern historians to be wildly inaccurate at times.

There just aren't any contemporary accounts or verification of the existance of Jesus outside of the Biblical Canon. When we look at the Bible-- scholars generally agree that the oldest books of the New Testament are Thessalonians (ca 52 AD -- 19 or so years after the crucifiction) and James (ca 64 AD-- 30 years after the crucifiction)-- neither claim to have known Jesus in the flesh. Matthew and John both claim to have known Jesus in the flesh, but both were written at the end of the first century AD -- they would have been VERY old men for that time. Scholars generally agree that neither book was actually written by THE Matthew and THE John of the Bible.

I welcome dissention on the topic, and if someone has evidence, I'd be delighted to hear it... but that evidence can't come from the Bible, it has to come from an outside source to have historical credibility.


A lot of people think that the disciples were very young men when they were called by Jesus. Some think they were 14 or so. Not the old me all the paintings make them appear.
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Re: Re:

Postby mixedbag916 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:43 pm

xtrema2shooter wrote:
MinnesotaDan wrote:Whether or not Jesus existed isn't the question. Even secular historians agree Jesus existed. The question is whether you believe he died for your sins or not.



You are 100% incorrect!

Let me preface this by saying that I DO believe that Jesus the Christ exisited. I'm more devout in my belief and worship than most, and I know in my heart with certainty that he walked the Earth.

That said... there's absolutely no historical documentation to support that. No mention in the Roman tax rolls, census data, execution records, etc. The earliest references to him in the non-Biblical record come from Roman historians Flavius Josephus (about 60 years after the crucifiction of Jesus) and Tacitus (about 70 years after the crucifiction of Jesus). Both are known by modern historians to be wildly inaccurate at times.

There just aren't any contemporary accounts or verification of the existance of Jesus outside of the Biblical Canon. When we look at the Bible-- scholars generally agree that the oldest books of the New Testament are Thessalonians (ca 52 AD -- 19 or so years after the crucifiction) and James (ca 64 AD-- 30 years after the crucifiction)-- neither claim to have known Jesus in the flesh. Matthew and John both claim to have known Jesus in the flesh, but both were written at the end of the first century AD -- they would have been VERY old men for that time. Scholars generally agree that neither book was actually written by THE Matthew and THE John of the Bible.

I welcome dissention on the topic, and if someone has evidence, I'd be delighted to hear it... but that evidence can't come from the Bible, it has to come from an outside source to have historical credibility.


That's why it's called "FAITH". If God wanted us to have so-called "proof" we would. You either have faith that Jesus loves you and died for your sins and that the Bible IS accurate, or (unfortunately) you don't. The only proof I need is the Bible.
But then again, even science is faith. Just because scientists say that something is a certain age (millions of years old, written in 64 AD, etc) doesn't make it so. They can't prove it. IMO, science is a religion itself.
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Re: Who does not believe in God or Jesus Christ?

Postby 870 » Fri May 07, 2010 7:06 pm

I know this is an old topic, but there isn’t much going on here so why not. Now after reading all these post I don’t know where to start but to what was already said, it boils down to one thing FAITH. Most of you guys are looking for the same thing they were looking for when Jesus walked on the earth “SIGNS” = PROOF that He was who He said He was. The Bible records that He healed the sick raised the dead and fed multitudes yet they still didn’t believe that He was their Messiah.

I’m not the one to debate evolution v creation, but I do know this, that the leading evolutionist won’t go toe to toe with those that can debate creation, because they use their own Mathematics and Science against them and make them look foolish.

If there isn’t a God then why is it that no matter where you go on earth you’ll find people worshiping a God. It’s created within us to warship God. You can stack up what you call proof on both sides of this topic, but yet when life deals with us unfairly why is it then that we look to God. I had an atheist’s friend just before he died want to confess Jesus as his Lord. It was a deathbed confession yet a confession of faith just the same. The God that didn’t exist before touched his heart. Just like the thief on the cross.

Someone once said, “How do you know there is a God?” I said, “How do you know the wind is blowing?” You can’t see the wind moving it’s invisible. What you see is the effect of it moving and you can feel it on your face when it touches you. The same thing is true with God, you see Him moving in the lives of others and when He touches your life. It come down to one thing Faith for with out it it’s impossible to please Him. :thumbsup:
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Re: Who does not believe in God or Jesus Christ?

Postby byf41 » Sat May 08, 2010 9:59 am

This is an old song that gives comfort to believers:

I know not how the Spirit moves,
Convincing men of sin,
Revealing Jesus through the Word,
Creating faith in Him.
But “I know Whom I have believed,
And am persuaded that He is able
To keep that which I’ve committed
Unto Him against that day.”
I know not when my Lord may come,
At night or noonday fair,
Nor if I walk the vale with Him,
Or meet Him in the air.

"These things have I written unto you... that ye may know that ye have eternal life..."
1 John 5:13 KJV
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Re: Who does not believe in God or Jesus Christ?

Postby Bill Herian » Mon May 10, 2010 11:21 am

Religion and sceince are really one in the same. Even the most widley accepted scientific theories, once you strip them down, begin with an assumption, a leap of faith, a "that's just how it is" statement, much like religion. Nothing is totally proveable, at some point, an assumption has to be made. Thats why I don't really get into arguments about it. I'm not particularily spiritual, but whatever I choose to beleive is no more bulletproof than anything else. I can't take the bible at face value and pity those who do, but I also see many who "beleive in science" arguing that it is totally provealbe when it is a faith based assumption. More ink has been spilled on this debate than any other in history and it shows no signs of being settled. I say to each his own.
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