controversial question

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controversial question

Postby blazer68 » Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:18 pm

I do go to church, I am a Catholic and I go when I can. my question is can you live a sinful life and still be saved? Like look at the stories in the bible where Christ himself said " NOW SIN NO MORE" do you think that applies to modern day man.
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Postby Trois_beaux_canards » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:01 pm

That is a controversial question, so I will try...then I won't look back so if you look to address a response to me forget it...

Raised a Christian, I was always taught to believe that your sins are and will be forgiven. Jesus died that so that you may be forgiven. We are humans, we are capable of failure...and we see to it that at least once in our own lives we will fail to live up to God's expectations for us, and will undoubtedly be a siner at some point in our lives. Some by mistake, others choice. If you accept the Lord Jesus into your hearts you shall be forgiven, so it is written. The most murderous, selfish person on his deathbed...may ask Jesus into his heart, and he shall be forgiven.

To err is to be human, to be human is to fail, to fail oftentimes is to sin. we are not immune to it, some just do better than others.

The mere attempt you could make to rid yourself of sin, ought to be enough...but I am not the one who makes the call. You are fallible, man is fallible...just don't willfully sin becuase you know you will be forgiven.

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Postby TNmatt83 » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:21 pm

Sin is sin. It doesn't matter if it's one sin or a million, the point is that Jesus was the only sinless person to ever live. That's why God sent him to earth so that he could die for OUR sins. Once you make the decision to live your life for Christ all those sins are washed away. I like to think of it this way, when God looks down at us instead of seeing our sin he sees his son. We are all going to make mistakes and fall short but if you are repentant and seek forgiveness there is no sin too great that God can't forgive it. Look at thepeople in the Bible that we consider to be great men, for example Peter, he strait up denied that he was a follower of Jesus and he's still considered to be one of the greatest contributors to the Christian faith, or if you go back even farther; David commited adultery with Bathsheba and then had her husband killed and he was still considered to be a "man after God's own heart." So to tie this all together, I think every generation and every person is going to experience different trials and struggles but the message of Christ will always apply.
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Postby Preacher1011 » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:11 pm

I couldn't have put it better myself guys. :thumbsup:
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Postby 870 » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:44 pm

Hi blazer, to answer your question yes. What Jesus said to the woman who was caught in the act of adultery “now go and sin no more” applies to our live today. What Jesus was saying to her was don’t commit adultery again. If she got caught again, He might not be there to bail her out again. Everything Jesus said 2000 years ago is relevant for today. If we are truly Christians and we know that what we’re about to do is sinful, the Holy Spirit will let us know it’s wrong and not to do it. At that point you’re at a crossroad, do we choose our will or do we choose Gods will for our life. Paul said, “ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! Rom 6:1-2 Gods grace will cover our sins, but at the same time He doesn’t want us to commit those sins.

It’s true at the time of our sin, all we need to do is ask God to forgive us and He will forgive us At the same time we need to head the words of Jesus and “sin no more”. When we truly love someone we do everything in our power not offend that person and our relationship with that person. The same thing applies here with our relationship with God; by willfully sinning we damage our relationship with Him. Now if we just do something stupid without thinking that’s easy, we just ask for forgiveness and it’s taken care of. As Christians we can’t truly enjoy living a sinful life, that’s impossible you can’t do it. The Holy Spirit well dog you with conviction till you stop sinning. I hope this helps, later dude :thumbsup:
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thanks

Postby blazer68 » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:49 pm

thanks guys
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Postby bayouboy » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:12 am

i like what 870 said about choosing our will vs. God's will. i definately believe in God's grace and forgiveness, and i try to be thankful for it and try not to sin. i cant think in the back of my mind that God will forgive me so why not sin? so i must also repent.
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Postby MissedAgain » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:57 pm

There is no forgiveness for intentional sin. Unintentional sin is forgiven upon repentance. Don't do something with the idea of repenting later. This is all explained in the front part of the book.

Let's look at the teaching where Jesus spoke about the guy calling someone a fool - he would be held guilty before the court, and if he kept it up could go to hell. That, dear sirs, is someone losing salvation.

Paul says to work out our salvation in fear & trembling.

Messiah also said that people would come to Him and say that they had performed miracles in His name. He said go, I never knew you. Sounds like someone who thought they were saved but wasn't.

Let's pray that none of us fall into the above situations because we do walk in fear & trembling.
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Postby capn - Tx » Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:02 pm

MissedAgain wrote:That, dear sirs, is someone losing salvation.


No it isn't, in fact it has nothing to do with salvation.

Matthew 5

21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother[b]will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[c]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
23"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.

25"Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.


Taken in context, the purpose of the story is to show the sin behind the sin, which shows the actual purpose of the law. The law existed to reveal sin, not to define right and wrong. Murder revealed unjust anger, and such anger is sin. To go on in anger is just as sinful as to go and commit murder, hence the point that both are judged equally in the eyes of God.

To answer the original question, God can forgive anybody that accepts by faith Christ's death as sacrifice for their sin and resurrection as the victory over their sin. On the other hand, faith is perfected in works, so faith is not simply believing. Faith is belief in action. You can not be saved and then go on living in the same manner with no change - that is not faith. Even demons believe, real faith will lead to repentence and life change. Hence the admonishment to go and sin no more, to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, and people calling out Lord Lord whom He doesn't know.
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Postby pappy » Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:06 pm

WOW

what a perplexing delima. I was raised and still am a baptist. the southern babtist doctrine teaches once saved always saved. that is where i depart with that line of teaching. i tend to agree more with the chuch of the nazerine that you can't live in a state of perpetual sin and expect to be considered saved.

i have seen people enter the church and make an open profession of faith and be on fire for the lord and six months later they are back in the world doing the same things that they were so ashamed of on that faithful day. i do believe that if you accept christ on your death bed you can be saved. BUT i think if you are on your death bed you would truely know in your heart if you were forgiven because of the peace and joy of the holy spirit that would come upon you.

i have heard the same people stand up and say i thank God for my salvation when in reality it is not their savation. it is God s salvation given to us by grace through our faith. i have no salvation but God has salvation through his son if we just believe.

when jesus told they woman to go her way and sin no more he meant just that. he told her sins were forgiven but he put a condition on it. he didn't say your sin are forgiven go and do as you please. he said sin no more. Did she fail? iikely but if she continued to work out her sins through fear and trembling and by going to God in prayer then God poured his salvation upon her.

getting saved is not a get out of hell free card. the path to heaven is narrow . will we step off the path? of course. can we get back on the path? yes indeed. we have a God who is willing to forgive through the precious blood of his son.

but a profession of faith at the alter and a dunking in the baptism pool in my opinion does not insure a place in heaven. if you can't say on the path of faith then you have made a mockery of the death of the only begotten ...... something i think God will take a particulary hard line on. in the book of james the author says if one in faith loses his faith that it would be better for them that they never had it all. to whom much is given much is expected.

i will pray for all of you and i request your prayers for myself that we all keep our faith seeded in Christ. God BLESS,

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Postby MissedAgain » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:21 pm

We can lose our salvation. We are in His hand and nothing can take us out except for us - by sinning and having our own will/way.

God told Cain that he could master sin. That goes for us today.

If Jesus says that your anger against your brother puts you in danger of hell fires - He means it. Yes, you need to make it right with your brother - even if he doesn't know there is a problem.

Sadly, most people won't take the steps and then live with that sin. One of our Decons stepped back for a little while instead of sstepping up and doing just this. All over a little thing - then he told me that God took the other people out so they could come back. I pray for him.

The best way to approach everything is to say that once you are convicted of any sin - you don't do it any more. That's how the Spirit trains us. Then once we get that sin under control, He reveals the next one....up to perfection. None of us live long enough for that, so we have the Blood of Messiah and our heart intents when we go before God.
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Postby Cephous » Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:41 pm

Some people believe that you can sin over and over and just confess to God and all will be forgiven. I am of the belief that God tells us not to sin. If you continue, he will condemn you for that. You can't just do what you want to and think all will be forgiven in the end.
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Postby thaner » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:07 pm

Everyone needs to crack open the New Testament and do some reading about sin and the believer. It is good stuff. Study, read and pray for God’s direction and understating as you study. You will get your answers to these questions and real peace and assurance of your salvation. If you don’t you will get some first class conviction.

We sin and don't even know it may times. Pride, failure to love your neighbor, and so on happens without a thought most times. Much of the sin we do is not what we do, but what we don’t do. If you could loose your salvation we would all loose it and you would be in and out every hour or minute. We sin in ways we don't even know about so you can be going along thinking you’re doing great and you’re just another black hearted sinner God can’t look out without Christ as your intercessor. God is perfect and anything less than perfect is sin. How many minutes a day do you think you're are perfect? Take a lesson from the Pharisees who thought they were really religious and holy. Christ called them everything but that. Most of us are no better then them.

When Christ says no one can take you out of the father’s hand he didn't say no one but you. If you think you can loose your salvation through sinning then you control your salvation by your works. The bible is very clear that you are not saved by works or the law, but by grace through salvation in Christ. The law is still good to follow and works are good. By their works you will know them and that is not by their works they are save. Because they are saved they do the work. Basically if you’re saved you should be seeking to be more like Christ and to mature and grow. You will not be happy doing the old world things. That doesn’t mean you don’t trip up here and there, or that your old flesh doesn’t sometimes long for those things. Even Paul said I do what I do not want to do and don't do what I want to. Do you think he is just talking about day to day activities? I want to go eat lunch and don't? No he is talking about sin and the ongoing war between the old flesh and the new sprit. Every person in the Bible but Christ was a sinner. The greatest of them all willfully sinned and in big ways, but when they did they knew it, were convicted, and repented.

The New Testament is very clear about living in sin or living a life where you sin because you can and then get forgiveness. That is wrong. If you can just wonder through life doing as you please and have no conviction and figure you have it covered then you really need to take a look and see if your are truly save, or just taking out fire insurance. You can believe in God and Christ and not be saved. I have had people argue that one many times. Believing is not salvation. Salvation is believing, repenting and accepting Christ as your personal savior and putting all your hope in him. The devil and the fallen angels believe in God and Christ. They know him personally and they are not saved.
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Postby 870 » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:28 pm

thaner, I really like the part about satan and his fallen angles believing in God and they aren’t saved. I just wonder how many of us so-called Christians really understand the belief in God that we need to have to enter into heaven? Do we truly believe in God or are we just going through the motions, or looking for what you said a fire escape?

I liken it this way; there are two kinds of belief. The first kind of belief is, we believe that the Sun will come up tomorrow. Why wouldn’t I believe it’s coming up, it’s been coming up since the down of time. That belief doesn’t require anything from us, we just go through life planning our tomorrows. The second belief is like this, you’re asleep, all of a sudden your waken by hearing your fire alarm going off. You jump out of bed open the door you feel the heat smell the smoke and see the flames. Next you grab the wife and kids and you’re out the door to safety.

The second belief is the kind of belief that the Lord wants from us. We see the danger that lies before us. That belief will drive us to save all others around us. I don’t think most Christians understand that, if they did then why is it that 95% of all Christians never lead anyone to Christ and less than 8% tithe each Sunday. They fill their life with so much that they can’t make a bible study or serve in their church. One of the saddest is that the average Christian doesn’t spend 5 minutes a week reading their bible. Yet they have it stuffed under their arm on Sunday.

God the Father wants us to have a level of belief in Him so deep that our eternal security isn’t in question. I heard it said one time “if we were to spend our time doing all the do’s, we won’t have time to do all the don’ts” God believes in us so deep that “He gave his only begotten” He's not asking us to die for Him, but just to live for Him. To live a life of deep belief in Him and His word that to sin against Him is out of the question. Your so right, we all need to spend more time reading His word. That’s for your post bro, God bless.
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Postby hogjaw » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:07 pm

for those of you who believe you can lose your salvation, how many times have you been saved? because in my opinion it isnt possible for a person to go very long at all without sinning. Im not talking about just the ten commandments either. there are other ways to sin although they might be lumped in as a type of one of the commandments. now i dont want to start anything here im just wondering. this is a touchy subject for alot of people and i dont want to get anybody mad. here is my problem with this doctrine or belief if you can lose your salvation wouldnt you need another sacrifice for the sin you commited that caused you to lose your salvation? In scripture God demanded sacrifices on a yearly basis. this is because man would sin in the year following the previous sacrifice. plain and simple. Man would sin. Man then had to give another blood sacrifice to cover his sins. Blood was required for sin. year after year after year. This was an imperfect sacrificial system. it was flawed because it had to be repeated. Jesus Christ did away with repeated sacrifices and once and for all covered mans sins past present and FUTURE with his blood. Therfore when man accepts God's gift of Christ there is no more need of a blood sacrifice. If you could lose your salvation we would have no better of a system than they had in the Old Testament because sin would have to covered by the shed blood of Christ again and again. Jesus would have to enter our world again, be born of a virgin, live a perfect sinless life, be betrayed, go to the cross again and die, then raise again from the dead. and this is just for one sin for one person in one day in our present time. Think about how much time has passed since jesus and how many sins have been commited. That would be six million times just for Hitler! in my opinion it is impossible to lose your salvation. The problem is that alot of people think this gives them a liscense to sin. Not so. We should strive each day to live a perfect life after all that is what being a Christian is all about. Being Christ-like. read Hebrews ch. 10. This talks about the imperfect sacrificial system of the old testament and how the blood of Christ did away with it. Just my two pennies and like i said i dont want to get into an argument bout this. I have never lived sinless since i was saved but im still saved and im counting on that to get me to heaven.
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Postby thaner » Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:28 pm

This is about the law and being released from the law, which is by Christ’s sacrifice. Romans is a good study about the law, and sin that continues to be a battle. The battle is due the new nature and old nature. We are new creations in Christ, but as long as we live we still carry around the old nature and have to battle it. A study of these chapters will answer a lot of questions. Note there is not in and out of Christ or alive and dead to sin. There is no indication of any condition on your behavior and nothing about you being sin free when save. It is just the opposite. I cut a few things out just to shorten it up, but it is all good.

Romans 6

Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ. Note it never says you will not sin, but don’t live in sin or let sin master you.

1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

10The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. 11In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. Slaves to Righteousness 15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!

Romans 7 (New International Version)

4So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God.

Struggling With Sin, everyone does.

14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

Romans 8

Life Through the Spirit not through the law or your actions.

1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in sinful man,[d] 4in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

Are you saved? What is your mind set on?

5Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.

There is a penalty for the sin in your life, but in Christ that penalty is physical and not spiritual

[b] 10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.
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Postby RBwaterfowler 2 » Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:19 pm

870 wrote:Hi blazer, to answer your question yes. What Jesus said to the woman who was caught in the act of adultery “now go and sin no more” applies to our live today. What Jesus was saying to her was don’t commit adultery again. If she got caught again, He might not be there to bail her out again. Everything Jesus said 2000 years ago is relevant for today. If we are truly Christians and we know that what we’re about to do is sinful, the Holy Spirit will let us know it’s wrong and not to do it. At that point you’re at a crossroad, do we choose our will or do we choose Gods will for our life. Paul said, “ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! Rom 6:1-2 Gods grace will cover our sins, but at the same time He doesn’t want us to commit those sins.

It’s true at the time of our sin, all we need to do is ask God to forgive us and He will forgive us At the same time we need to head the words of Jesus and “sin no more”. When we truly love someone we do everything in our power not offend that person and our relationship with that person. The same thing applies here with our relationship with God; by willfully sinning we damage our relationship with Him. Now if we just do something stupid without thinking that’s easy, we just ask for forgiveness and it’s taken care of. As Christians we can’t truly enjoy living a sinful life, that’s impossible you can’t do it. The Holy Spirit well dog you with conviction till you stop sinning. I hope this helps, later dude :thumbsup:


DITTO THAT!! Well said. :thumbsup: You too thaner :wink:
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Re: controversial question-BTW

Postby RBwaterfowler 2 » Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:24 pm

blazer68 wrote:I do go to church... still be saved?


I love the old saying...

Going to sit in church-no more makes you a Christian...

...than sitting in the garage, makes you a car.

:rolleyes:
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Re: controversial question

Postby ksfowler166 » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:22 pm

What do you think the sacrament of Reconciliation is for? :huh:
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Re: controversial question

Postby heathrow » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:52 pm

I would have to say no, you can not live a sinful live and go to heaven. If you keep on sining and sin is sin. Know matter how big the sin might be to you its still sin. You need to asked Jesus into your heart and forgive you of your sins and have a personal relationship
with him, so you can also share the word of God with friends and family. Remember not all people will enter the Kingdom of heaven

Matthew 7: 23 And then i will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
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Re: controversial question

Postby utduck » Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:28 am

True repentance requires you to commit the sin for which you were forgiven no more. We of course will continue to sin. Hopefully not the one we were forgiven of. But He is nit telling us we have to be perfect. He's telling us to do our best and then his grace will cover the rest. After we have done all we can.

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Re: controversial question

Postby snieff » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:24 pm

x2 .
All scripture applies to modern day man. Why wouldn't it? Jesus Christs teachings don't change because the time period. His teachings and gospel are alway the same. Today, tomorrow and forever. I dont think just attending church will "save" you. You must live a clean and viturous life and try to be like Jesus is. We all sin little sins eveyday and we can repent of these and try our best to do them no more. Show your faith by your works. :thumbsup:
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Re:

Postby Decoy » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:07 pm

The Bible tells us we are dead in our sins. A dead man can do nothing. The only thing they can do is rot. We can not be good, we cannot abstain from sin. The Bible is clear we are powerless over sin. We are its slave.

The Bible tells us that no one comes to Jesus but the father draws him in John 6:44. God starts drawing us to him, he brings us to a point we see our sin and recognize it for what it is and realize we are helpless over it. At that point we realize that our sin will destroy us. When/if we surrender to God and ask for his forgiveness the Bible tells us he takes our place (big word is propitation sp?). He takes on our sin and gives us his righteousness, it says we become a new creation. If we are trying to be good enough to earn salvation we are fooling ourselves. When God changes our heart our actions follow. Yes we will battle with sin Romans 7 is a great example. The key is that it is a battle, we no longer love our sin, we hate it. I have seen many people who profess to be Christians but they love their sin, I would suspect they have been led to believe that they did some ritual (pray a prayer, walk an isle or some other activity) and their faith is in the event. See God converts a believers heart so that they don't want to sin. They may struggle with sin, but God has made them a new man. The Christian walk is full of this on going battle, it is part of the sanctification process.
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Re: controversial question

Postby HonkQuackBang » Tue May 15, 2012 2:51 pm

God wont accept the last repentance of a scoundrel!

When you meet St Peter at the gate and if you are lucky to get that far he will find something to blame you and he will tell you to"" Get outta here with that & take it down below!
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Re: controversial question

Postby pork4life » Tue May 15, 2012 5:49 pm

HonkQuackBang wrote:God wont accept the last repentance of a scoundrel!

When you meet St Peter at the gate and if you are lucky to get that far he will find something to blame you and he will tell you to"" Get outta here with that & take it down below!

I'm pretty sure that isn't how it goes.
Rick Hall wrote:If you look close, you'll see "momma" has a pecker.
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