how fast does my bow need to be??

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how fast does my bow need to be??

Postby turkeyhuntinNC » Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:44 pm

hello...i have been deer hunting all my life and i am gonna try bow hunting this season and i was noticing on the bows that the FPS ranges from 260 to like 335..how fast does my bow need to be for about shots up to 35 yards to cleanly kill a deer? help wpuld be great :help:

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Postby Smackaduck » Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:19 pm

Its gonna be more in your arrow than in the feet per second. You can kill a deer with 40 lbs of pull if your set up is right. My bow shoots around 280.
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Postby Penguine » Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:38 pm

You are not setting up to shoot FPS, you are stting up draw weight. You need to go in to a good archery shop and have them help you out. The higher the draw weight of the bow the faster the arrow will go. I used to shoot 65lb draw weight.
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Postby On the porch » Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:04 pm

Ted Nugent shoots his bow with 53 pounds and uses the cheapest arrows Gold Tip makes. I'd say he's shooting in the 220 FPS range. The Gold Tip's shoot at about 10 FPS faster than allum. arrows. How many THOUSANDS of animals has he killed? Too many to count. You don't need a bow thats set up at 80 lbs and shoot's 300+ FPS to work for you.
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Postby choclab » Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:27 am

On the porch wrote:Ted Nugent shoots his bow with 53 pounds and uses the cheapest arrows Gold Tip makes. I'd say he's shooting in the 220 FPS range. The Gold Tip's shoot at about 10 FPS faster than allum. arrows. How many THOUSANDS of animals has he killed? Too many to count. You don't need a bow thats set up at 80 lbs and shoot's 300+ FPS to work for you.


Good point! It don't need to be fast..........just accurate
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Postby Cupped-n-Committed » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:14 pm

I shoot hand made wooden recurves and shoot 625 grain arrows 164 FPS and they can go through a deer in the ribs. If you do not do the math you need a good archeryshop.

Speed plus arrow weight equals Kenetic energy and that is what you need. I have an excel spread sheet at home that calcs it all outif any one wants it. If you do look up mt e-mail and ask me. I will be home from travel on Saturday.

I hear compounders say "speed kills". Not exactly, too light of an arrow can be bad for KE and for your bow limbs. Energy not asorbed by the arrow is left to resonate in the bow.
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Postby skybuster20ga » Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:48 pm

all of you make good points. speed is a combonation of draw weight, draw legnth, string weight and speed, arrow weight and vane or feather aplication. the key is first find the correct legnth draw. 1 inch is about 10fps (example, 29" @290 would be 300 @30" providing the draw weight and aroow is the same) next is finding the draw weight that is comfy and easy for you to draw repetedly. then match you arrow to both those things. now you can gain here and there w/ some small tricks if you want to. i shoot a 27" draw @ 68 lbs and FMJ 400 @ 282/285fps the same set up w/ my lightspeed 500's im around 325...necasary?? no but it is fun . now my recurve shoots a 480 gr arrow @ 45 lbs and is only 157ish now thats fun! bottom line dont dwell on speed cuz it will get the best of ya!!!
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Postby hunter97051 » Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:14 pm

You want to have a bow that shoots and draws to your personal stregnth and holding ability. Speed is great if you can hold steady, but a slower bow is way more forgiving than a fast one. If you shoot a heavy arrow at 240 - 260 fps. you will have the same kinetic energy as a lighter arrow at 290 - 310 fps. and kinetic energy is what it is all about, because that is what will give you penetration power. Bottom line is a slower bow will kill just as good as a fast bow due to the fact that slower is heavier and faster is lighter its all reletive. When you choose a bow and arrow combination you need to find a good archery pro shop and you need a bow set up for you not just the same thing someone else has. You will need to make the decision that you are confident in. If you are a beginner you shoud start out with a lower poundage slower bow and work you way up when you get your shooting form down and gain confidence then go to a lighter arrow to gain speed. With alot speed a small mistake is way worse than a slower set up, but on the other hand a faster bow means a flater shooting trajectory and you can shoot through smaller windows and also the faster the bow the smaller the distance of drop between yardage and mistakes of yardage judgement will greatly go down. I sure hope this is of some help..... :thumbsup: good luck
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Postby skybuster20ga » Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:38 pm

i highly recomend the easton full metal jackets. the best arrow ive shot in 20 years. they arent exactly a speed demon and they are small dia. tough as nails and straight tol.
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Postby fowl hooked » Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:09 pm

Speed dont kill , placement does ! :thumbsup:
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Postby skybuster20ga » Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:24 pm

the only time i think about speed is w/ my compitition set ups. for hunting purposes im in the 275 to 280 range which really is much faster then needed. i kill deer w/ my traditional bow that is only in the 180 range w/ an alum. 2117
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Postby mjl927 » Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:03 am

I like to setup my bow(s) so that I can easily draw the bow back slowly without raising the front of the bow above my head. In other words, I like to be able to draw the bow stealthy if you catch my drift. I've seen people with the draw weight set so high that they have to raise the bow high above their head and yank down super hard to get the string backwards. That's in warm weather wearing a tee-shirt! Imagine trying to do that from a cold tree stand wearing a parka! No chance!

Tuning a bow involves figuring out the needs of the bow given the arrows you're shooting. Most people determine a draw weight and set the bow to that weight then attempt to tune the bow by sighting it in. But really, you should set the draw weight based on what is best for the arrow shaft you're shooting THEN sight in the arrows. I'll start by setting my draw weight close to the limit before I can't pull it "stealthy". From there I tune it to the arrows I'm using which may mean lowering the lbs a bit or even raising them a bit. Most of the time, I'm right in the 60-65 lbs range.

I do want to get good arrow speed because speed gives you a flatter arrow trajectory. It also gets the arrow to the target quicker. That might mean the difference between a hit or a miss if you happen to judge the distance to the deer as 20 yards but in reality, it is at 24 yards. If you shoot the arrow too slow, the "rainbow" trajectory may cause the arrow to drop too far on a miss-judged distance. Deer are known to "duck" arrows too. So a fast arrow can help compensate for that.

Still....all things being equal....I'd much rather have a comfortable draw weight, quieter bow, etc than a hyper-fast bow that I can hardly draw back.
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Postby Greenhead Grappler » Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:23 am

in deer huntin speed is not as important as it is for 3d. speed gives you a flatter shot (allows more distance errors). in hunting speed is important but so is kinetic energy. you can use the lightest arrows made and have all the speed in the world and it wouldnt go through a deer. i like as much speed as possible without sacrificing my k energy. i shoot 50 yds hunting and my setup does the job. (67lbs, 29"draw, 8.6gpi arrows) the fastest bow might not be the most comfortable for you. i shoot a parker, but my dream is a bowtech (which is much faster) your speed should reflect your IBO. if IBO is 330 you should be able to get 290 or 300fps out of it. if IBO is 310 you should be able to get 260 or 270fps out of it. 35, 40 ,50 yards it doesnt matter try and get a good solid speed of 250 or better and you will be ok. speed is important. but its not everything.
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Postby skybuster20ga » Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:17 pm

well most of that statement is true. depending on your draw legnth. for example, 1 inch of draw legnth is 10 fps , everything else being equal. a brass knock in the center of your string, loose 3-5fps. string silencers, 4-7 fps. 9or more) a hot string, 5 fps. example, fire your bow through a crono first shot. 20 shots later i garentee your bow to be slower. 8 gpi is about minimum for hunting. a heavier arrow is quieter and penetraes deeper. my 3d arrows are 4.4 gpi and would just about blow up in bone. peep sight deduct 3-5 fps. hower there are a few tricks to gain some speed back w/out making you bow loud or drawing more weight. i shoot bowtech for hunting and comp. also and i have a 27" draw and i have my 3d set around 318 323 depending on moisture and temp and things. and my hunting set up is about 275 w/ easton FMJ @ 9.9. but like i said if your ibo is 300fps and you shoot a 27" draw automatically erase 30fps. then all the deductions for string weight and depending on arrow weight. i could give you more specifics you you need em but ive already taken up enough room here
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[b]Kinetic Energy is King[/b]

Postby Cupped-n-Committed » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:54 am

You should read this. you need to understand Kinetic energy. Arrow weight is more important than speed when hunting. But they are semi dependant on each other. I disagree with the author as how much KE required as deer can be killed with less than 45 pound KE when placed in the ribs and not in the shoulders. but it's a very good education on the physics of killing deer with a bow.

http://www.buckdeer.com/kinetic.htm
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Postby skybuster20ga » Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:19 pm

ive said it before. my traditional bow is a 45# and around 165fps w/ a 540 gr. arrow and i pass clean through w/ a 145gr. broadhead.
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Re: [b]Kinetic Energy is King[/b]

Postby Greenhead Grappler » Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:43 pm

Cupped-n-Committed wrote:You should read this. you need to understand Kinetic energy. Arrow weight is more important than speed when hunting. But they are semi dependant on each other. I disagree with the author as how much KE required as deer can be killed with less than 45 pound KE when placed in the ribs and not in the shoulders. but it's a very good education on the physics of killing deer with a bow.

http://www.buckdeer.com/kinetic.htm


I agree to disagree! even though i agree with most of this article i think hes a little hung up on wieght and not enough speed. i know from experience you dont need a 450 gr. arrow for hunting. i shoot 370 gr. arrows and they pass straight through the animal and stick in the ground about 6 in. last year i shot a deer in the shoulder and the arrow passed through both shoulders. shooting such a heavy arrow, your going to have to be nearly perfect on judging distance! if your 5 yds off you may completely miss.
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Postby skybuster20ga » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:15 pm

well it depends on draw weight and draw legnth and arrow legnth. a 370 gr arrow would be heavy for a 26 inch draw @ 55-60lbs. but would be hyperlite for a 30" 70 pounder. its all relavant to each bow set up. the combo has to be perfect to acheive the best of both worlds
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Postby Greenhead Grappler » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:01 pm

skybuster20ga wrote:well it depends on draw weight and draw legnth and arrow legnth. a 370 gr arrow would be heavy for a 26 inch draw @ 55-60lbs. but would be hyperlite for a 30" 70 pounder. its all relavant to each bow set up. the combo has to be perfect to acheive the best of both worlds

thats with 67# and 29".
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Postby skybuster20ga » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:19 pm

thats about right then. middle of the road
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Re: [b]Kinetic Energy is King[/b]

Postby Cupped-n-Committed » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:28 am

Greenhead Grappler wrote:i know from experience you dont need a 450 gr. arrow for hunting. i shoot 370 gr. arrows and they pass straight through the animal and stick in the ground about 6 in.


It is all about KE. You are raising your KE by increasing your speed. Increase your speed ot increase the weight of your arrow and you increase your KE.

But the weight of the arrow increases the KE 2 times what speed does. That is why heavier arrow are important for hunting. The heavier and arrow is the more energy it will take from the bow. That is why manufactures recommend no less that a certain weight arrow on compounds. Shooting a really light arrow is almost like a dry fire.

Ah this is great. I forgot I had this on my web site.
http://www.geocities.com/archeryrob/kinetic_calc.htm
Go and enter your arrow weight and bow speed and you can see the KE your setup is producing. Keep in mind changing arrow weight does reduce FPS some so you have to web search how much. I just can not remember right now how much.
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Postby Cupped-n-Committed » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:33 am

Yea and the author is definately wrong. My 600 grain arrow at 165FPS only makes 35 pounds KE and just kills the crap out of them.

I know for a fact that I have killed deer with bows and arrow probably producing 28 lbs KE
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Postby skybuster20ga » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:44 am

goltips website will do the same thing you pick your set up (build your arrow and then it computes it to ke.my full metAL JACKETS @280 penetrate much deeper then my easton navigators. of course you would never hunt w/ navigators
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Re: [b]Kinetic Energy is King[/b]

Postby Greenhead Grappler » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:54 am

Cupped-n-Committed wrote:
Greenhead Grappler wrote:i know from experience you dont need a 450 gr. arrow for hunting. i shoot 370 gr. arrows and they pass straight through the animal and stick in the ground about 6 in.


It is all about KE. You are raising your KE by increasing your speed. Increase your speed ot increase the weight of your arrow and you increase your KE.

But the weight of the arrow increases the KE 2 times what speed does. That is why heavier arrow are important for hunting. The heavier and arrow is the more energy it will take from the bow. That is why manufactures recommend no less that a certain weight arrow on compounds. Shooting a really light arrow is almost like a dry fire.

Ah this is great. I forgot I had this on my web site.
http://www.geocities.com/archeryrob/kinetic_calc.htm
Go and enter your arrow weight and bow speed and you can see the KE your setup is producing. Keep in mind changing arrow weight does reduce FPS some so you have to web search how much. I just can not remember right now how much.


haha. this is turned into a huge ke discussion! i totally agree with you CnC. however, the problem lies in that thin line between how much k energy can i get without killing my speed. now im not talking about the difference between a 380 gr. arrow and a 400 gr. arrow b/c you wont see much difference, but you can shoot a heavy enough arrow to draw every bit of power from your bow and as long as you only plan on shooting 10 yds. your ok. the problem comes in when you start shooting 40 even 50 yds. a heavy arrow will not have a flat shot. my set up has around 60 or 70 lbs. of KE. i think most people say 40 to 45 lbs is recommended, but i think you can get by with less. you want to kill the deer, but with heavier arrows all you will do is make a bad shot on the animal, and then you can have 100 lbs. of ke and it wont matter. basically i prefer a little more speed for a more accurate shot. and some people prefer a heavier arrow for more KE. just get the perfect combination for YOUR bow. most bows are 60- 70# with draw length 26"- 30". in my opinion i would make sure my minimum arrow wieght is 340 gr.,(for hunting) but i wouldnt go over 400 gr. after 415 gr. your losing more speed than you need to successfully kill the animal.
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Postby Cupped-n-Committed » Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:14 am

The average shot quoted by bowhunting surveys was said to be about 10 yards. At 300 FPS you can just about shoot any weight arrow you want and have killing KE. I like to go heavy as at 15 yards I gets lots of KE and little drop off.

Do you actually shoot 40 to 50 yards with your bow? Every guy I have ever talked to shooting those yardages has wouded deer from string jumps and just deer moving at the shot release.

I am lucky. I make all my own bows and arrows. I like to make deflexed bows that only have 10 pounds or less at brace height. That leaves very little energy left in the bow for noise. I do not use string silencer and have still had people comment on how quite my bows are. The only thing animal hear is the arrow hitting the ground. plus my bows only weight about 4 or 5 ounces.

Although I do a few arrows with high fletching for very close shots as they stabilize the arrow from archers paradox very fast. My bows are old shool and are not center shot like compound risers are design now.
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