Not always duplex shooting

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Not always duplex shooting

Postby Duplex lover » Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:53 pm

I took the BIG GUN ,45/70 out for a test today in preparation for bear season. I wanted to try it off my sticks and see if all was well. It was...I'm using my pet load 300 gr Hornady going 2400 fps. The first target was 100 yards using the 100 yard hash ( center) the marks on the target are an inch apart. The next one is at 200 yards with the 200 hash in the scope.My reloads are a little hotter then the "Evolution" shells and that is what the scope is for. I tried it with the 100 hash at 200 yards and I'm 9" low.Looks like the gun will do it's part if I do.. :lol:
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I felt I should not have missed the last dog so I put the 22/250 on paper too. Looks like I just missed the dog.I'm shooting a speer 52 MK 3800 fps. The first one is off sticks at 100 yards scope on 5 power, the box with the picture ( Center) is about 1 1/2" square and the marks are 1" apart. The next one is at 200 yards off sticks still aimed dead on and on 12 power. All 6 shots are still all but in the 1 1/2" box.SO at 300 yards I should have been still on fur, just missed I guess. :evil:


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Re: Not always duplex shooting

Postby TomKat » Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:57 pm

So, in summary, this is all good?
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Re: Not always duplex shooting

Postby Duplex lover » Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:09 pm

TomKat wrote:So, in summary, this is all good?



YES ALL GOOD! :thumbsup:
Bring on the bear.
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Re: Not always duplex shooting

Postby TomKat » Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:13 pm

I fought the bear and the bear lost...

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Re: Not always duplex shooting

Postby Sagebrush » Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:42 pm

There are quite a few that shoot the 45/70 "Candle stick" rifle load out here in northern Nevada.

Most use iron sights for the "Metal Shoots" out here and you can see them at the rifle range,quite often.
Black powder is sort of a kick in the pants to watch and shoot.

Tried the 52 and 53 pills in my 22/250 but it likes the 55 grains best and even gets 1/2" groups at 100 yards with the big speer 70 gr, round nose with a full case of H414.
Have you tried th Hornady 55gr V-Max poly tip yet....? 5 @ .41"
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Re: Not always duplex shooting

Postby Duplex lover » Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:02 pm

My 45/70 is Not a Black powder shooter. I have a 4X9 scope on her and took a 350 elk last year at 500 yards. VERY fun gun to shoot :thumbsup: With a 1x12 twist I'm sticking to a 50 ish bullet in the 22/250. Off the bench this load ( Varget) will shoot through the same hole If I do my part. I'd rather shoot of sticks when I do paper work that is the way I hunt so thats the way I practice. I've used a 45 Barns for deer and didn't like it much, shot outstanding but just isn't enough for a big Mule deer. I've ran 40gr V-Max and varmint grenades too. For Prairie dogs there fun pushing them to 4300 but for coyotes there again it's just not enough. I've had them blowup on the out side of a winter hair dog... The Match kings do a good job on Kevlar coted coyotes and don't destroy the hide. :hi:
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Re: Not always duplex shooting

Postby TopWop » Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:45 pm

This is an honest question, not being a smarta$$.
You said you shot an Elk at 500 yards with a 45-70. The ballistic charts
I looked at showed a 30"+ drop at 300 yrds (325 gr bullet). It doesn't
show any further data because that was deemed out of it's effective
range. My question is what,why and how? Mostly why. Thanks.

Also why is your font so big? We can hear you loud and clear!
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Re: Not always duplex shooting

Postby Duplex lover » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:10 pm

TopWop wrote:This is an honest question, not being a smarta$$.
You said you shot an Elk at 500 yards with a 45-70. The ballistic charts
I looked at showed a 30"+ drop at 300 yards (325 gr bullet). It doesn't
show any further data because that was deemed out of it's effective
range. My question is what,why and how? Mostly why. Thanks.

Also why is your font so big? We can hear you loud and clear!


I like it BIG!!!!not being a smarta$$.

Even with the old Black powder guns in 45/70 they shot bison at 1000 yards. I'm shooting NEAR 458 ballistics Why not. I shoot 1000,s of rounds a year out of this gun I'm very used to how it can shoot. My scope has range hashes that work very well There is some "windage" but it is experienced Windage :grooving:
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Re: Not always duplex shooting

Postby TopWop » Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:09 pm

I guess my question still remains, how? Are you holding 4' above the animal?
Have you come up with loads that shoot flatter, lighter bullets?
I can't even imagine for myself taking a shot with no brown in the glass.
You standing by that 1000 yard effective range on a 45 70? Did the Bison
die of old age before the bullet got there? With the info that I have found it
just doesn't seem realistic. That's why I'm so interested on how. My Dad has a
Henry 45 70. The few times I've shot it, it seems to drop like a rock at 200+ yds.
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Re: Not always duplex shooting

Postby Duplex lover » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:11 am

TopWop wrote:I guess my question still remains, how? Are you holding 4' above the animal?
Have you come up with loads that shoot flatter, lighter bullets?
I can't even imagine for myself taking a shot with no brown in the glass.
You standing by that 1000 yard effective range on a 45 70? Did the Bison
die of old age before the bullet got there? With the info that I have found it
just doesn't seem realistic. That's why I'm so interested on how. My Dad has a
Henry 45 70. The few times I've shot it, it seems to drop like a rock at 200+ yds.

The Indians Called the 45/70 the "shoot today kill tomorrow" gun. Thats the old trap door type My marlin is a modern version, ballistics are the same as a 450 marlin. At 2500 FPS withs is almost what my 300's run at is almost as fast as a 30/06 and a 200 gr bullet. You would shoot an elk with that??? As I said the scope has hash marks up to 300 yards and it is set for Factory evolution 325 bullets. My 300's run faster then the factory 325's. SO When I shoot 500 yards I do have to put the elk at the bottom of the scope but it is always "IN THE SCOPE". Some of the Latter iron sights on the sharps are 12" long. With a lot of practice and a little luck a 500 yard shot is NOT out of the question. :eek:
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Re: Not always duplex shooting

Postby Sagebrush » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:42 am

+1;
A lot of people have never seen what these and the old Black Powder rifles can do................

Most only know of little 150 grain bullets at 2900 fps for todays "Hunting bullets" and do not under stand what
the old timers used ,very well at long distances, that almost took the HUGE Buffalo heards away !!

Little wind drift and lots of energy , makes for a long rang killer...............bullet drop can be adjusted for with one or two outings to the range and the old Buffalo hunters got very good at kills,since each hide brought in money,for them.

Many used only the round ball and did not have the more accurate "Mini Ball" that was to come out later, which really
improved the accuracy of the old rifles.
With 120 years of bullet improvement and styles bullet drop as been reduced by almost 33 %. and the barrels are twice as good
as the old drilled ones.

I own an original 38 cal rifle and Navy revolver , the revolver took a deer at 80 yards off a porch in California, the same year my father bought it. They may be old but they are still accurate ,in the right hands.
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Re: Not always duplex shooting

Postby TopWop » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:18 pm

1000 yards...... 1000 yards
I'll give you the 500yds. Doesn't sound like a shot that I would take.
I just don't have that club in my bag.

Tell ya what I'll let you shoot at me from there.
1000 yds, 1 shot, iron sights. I may not be as big as a Buffalo,
I'll hold a 36" circle target.

Makes me want to watch Tom Horn now.
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Re: Not always duplex shooting

Postby Sagebrush » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:42 pm

With todays custom barrels, bullets and new black powders even with iron sights on a no wind day, I would not
want to be a target at 1,000 yards.............. Too bad you have not seen any compatitions on the tv or in the field.

Now with a 10mph wind at right angles, there can be misses if it is in gusts but if the data is right and the shooter
does his part, it will still be a hit. Shooters have 2-4 minutes to get off their shots ,depending on class and match.

Some of the bullets are custom made 500 grain lead or even larger................

Then you have the rifles that have scopes mounted on them !! This is the unlimited class and after 2-3 sight in shots
they are all business, for the rest of the day.

I have not delt much with the modern Brass Jacket bullets used in the modern rifles but do know if a 300gr bullet was sighted in at 200 yards it would only drop 15" at 300 yards...............no big deal even with iron sights.
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Re: Not always duplex shooting

Postby Duplex lover » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:50 pm

TopWop wrote:1000 yards...... 1000 yards
I'll give you the 500yds. Doesn't sound like a shot that I would take.
I may not be as big as a Buffalo,
I'll hold a 36" circle target..



:hi: I don't even think I can see 1000 with out some kind of optics man. Never said I could shoot 1000 just said it could be possible thats all. I admit 500 yards is a LONG Poke and one I very seldom attempt BUT I Did and got away with it, do it again Maybe not. I do know if I was going to make a habit of it I'd go to a heaver bullet like 405. or even 500 gr. But I do like how flat the 300's fly , for a 300 gr bullet. I have a load I shoot thats a Barnes all copper 250 gr that is moving about 2650 to 2700 fps But it's like tickling the back end of a Mule!!! :bow:
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Re: Not always duplex shooting

Postby TopWop » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:13 pm

I guess that's all I was getting at. That it's not just run of the mill.
You spend a lot of time and work on your loads.
The only info I had was a ballistic chart that showed a 30" drop at 300yds.
I've shot my Dad's Henry and can't imagine shooting past 150 or 200 yds.
I was honestly just curious and amazed at how you get those kind of numbers.
I did get a little sassy when I thought you made it sound like it's normal.
And ole Cowboys are picking off buffalo at 1000' yds. To me that would be
very exceptional, not the norm.
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Re: Not always duplex shooting

Postby klist » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:11 pm

1000 yards for black powder?

do i believe it? yes

why? because ive seen it done. theres an entire class for long range black powder shooters. the consistently and shooting out to 1000 yards, using 45/70, 38/70, and a whole slough of calibers i know nothing about.

never underestimate a BIG slow bullet. it will go for a while, and it holds ALOT of energy.
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