17 hmr vises 45/70 government

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17 hmr vises 45/70 government

Postby Duplex lover » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:54 pm

Why is it when we talk about the 17 we say it's BLAZING fast,tack driving,hard hitting ext. Then when the 45/70 is talked about we say its, Slow and lumbering,lobing shells out to see where they hit.I just got some 17 shells and was looking at the specks on the box. The 17 gr are going only 50 fps faster than my 300 grain Gubberments.At 2550 fps the 17 do fly but my LUMBERING rainbow arcing 300's are going 2500 fps,are they Flying too? As for tack driving I can put them in to the same hole at 100 yards and there is very little wind drift compared to the 17. Heck the more I think about it Why did I even but the 17's today I should be just using my 45/70, the gophers don't mind at all...
NOW WHERE TALKING!!!!
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Re: 17 hmr vises 45/70 government

Postby TomKat » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:15 pm

I shot some water jugs this weekend with a .204 Ruger. That is a blazing fast tack driver!!
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Re: 17 hmr vises 45/70 government

Postby Duplex lover » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:23 pm

TomKat wrote:I shot some water jugs this weekend with a .204 Ruger. That is a blazing fast tack driver!!


Thats for sure I also shoot a 22/250 at 4500 fps. :thumbsup:
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Re: 17 hmr vises 45/70 government

Postby TomKat » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:30 pm

I am getting to start loading some 40 and 45 grn bullets for mine....what does it take to get that fast? I thought 4200 was pretty good for 40 grn .22-250 bulets
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Re: 17 hmr vises 45/70 government

Postby Duplex lover » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:42 pm

36-gr varmint grenade
40.2-gr IMR8208XBR
CCI Bench rest Primer
Winchester case


Is what I use for flat out speed. BUT they won't group as well as they do if you slow them down to around 4200. :hi:
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Re: 17 hmr vises 45/70 government

Postby TomKat » Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:31 pm

What is a good ACCURATE lost ? 40 grains? 41? I have heard a lot of good things about 8208XBR. I have to use up the H380 I have first LOL
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Re: 17 hmr vises 45/70 government

Postby Duplex lover » Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:46 pm

39.5 gr will make my TC 1/14 twist put them in the same hole at 100 yards :hammer:
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Re: 17 hmr vises 45/70 government

Postby clampdaddy » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:36 pm

Because the HMR is the fastest rimfire and the .45-70 is on the slow end of centerfire rifle cartridges. But at least the .17 rem is still the factory speed king. :thumbsup:
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Re: 17 hmr vises 45/70 government

Postby Sagebrush » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:01 am

Duplex;

I know a few ranchers that shoot vermin in their back yard with 45/70's and when the smoke clears...........
they go out and do spring planting.........with all the new BIG holes in the ground!! (joking)

I have shot a few with a 30-06 and was amazed at how high body parts can fly. :eek:
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Re: 17 hmr vises 45/70 government

Postby TomKat » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:45 am

Sagebrush wrote:Duplex;

I know a few ranchers that shoot vermin in their back yard with 45/70's and when the smoke clears...........
they go out and do spring planting.........with all the new BIG holes in the ground!! (joking)

I have shot a few with a 30-06 and was amazed at how high body parts can fly. :eek:


I have killed lots of them with a 70 grn Sierra bullet from a 6mm. BOOM!
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Re: 17 hmr vises 45/70 government

Postby MOhuntingGuy » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:16 pm

The only thing that bugs me about this thread is you are comparing a .17HMR to a .45/70. Thats like comparing a Mack truck to a honda civic. Yeah, they both drive but one is a lot bigger than the other.
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Re: 17 hmr vises 45/70 government

Postby TomKat » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:54 am

MOhuntingGuy wrote:The only thing that bugs me about this thread is you are comparing a .17HMR to a .45/70. Thats like comparing a Mack truck to a honda civic. Yeah, they both drive but one is a lot bigger than the other.


that is the whole point of it, its SUPPOSED to bug ya :biggrin:
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Re: 17 hmr vises 45/70 government

Postby Sagebrush » Thu May 03, 2012 10:54 am

Kneeener,Kneeener.................. :lol:
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Re: 17 hmr vises 45/70 government

Postby talltimber » Thu May 03, 2012 6:09 pm

Shot a buddies 45/70 last fall. I had never seen one before. Nice guide gun, with a big boom. I liked it quite a bit. The kick was nothing like the report, ported barrel. I'm thinking I might have to have one :thumbsup:
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Re: 17 hmr vises 45/70 government

Postby ibedamn » Sat May 05, 2012 8:12 am

In my area Christmas tree farmers are allowed to shoot deer all year round with the proper permits. They deer really hammer the tree's. Many of these use the 17HMR. All that I have talked to claim it drops em dead. Most of these guys I know to be honest. I would have never expected such a small bullet to be a deer killer.
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Re: 17 hmr vises 45/70 government

Postby talltimber » Sat May 05, 2012 8:29 pm

I'm assuming an eye or earhole shot. I wouldn't trust one to kill a deer hitting anywhere else. Not saying it couldn't be done, just saying... :lol3:
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Re: 17 hmr vises 45/70 government

Postby ibedamn » Sun May 06, 2012 8:29 am

talltimber wrote:I'm assuming an eye or earhole shot. I wouldn't trust one to kill a deer hitting anywhere else. Not saying it couldn't be done, just saying... :lol3:


I agree, it would not be my choice of calibers. Most tell me they neck shoot em. I have killed numerous deer with a 223 by the neck shot. But when I questioned it, one particular farmer told me he has chest shot em and dropped them. I am sure not claiming that is true, since I didn't see it myself. The one thing these farmers have in common, is they don't care if a deer runs off and dies. That way they don't have to deal with a multiple of carcusses. Who wants to process deer meat in 90 degree temperature, and most people have only so much room in their freezer.
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Re: 17 hmr vises 45/70 government

Postby TomKat » Sun May 06, 2012 8:35 am

It is my opinion that a .223 is a poor choice of caliber for shooting deer.

Not to start a fight with ya, but I would never choose a neck shot on purpose.
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Re: 17 hmr vises 45/70 government

Postby ibedamn » Sun May 06, 2012 9:09 am

TomKat wrote:It is my opinion that a .223 is a poor choice of caliber for shooting deer.

Not to start a fight with ya, but I would never choose a neck shot on purpose.


Just from my on experience, when I am meat hunting, meaning doe meat for the freezer, a very accurate 223 works great and I have never had one move out it's tracks with a neck shot. It drops em dead, maybe a kick or two, but that's it. This way you don't have any usable meat damage and no time spent tracking. I've have never body shot a deer with a 223 and would not recommend it.
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Re: 17 hmr vises 45/70 government

Postby TomKat » Sun May 06, 2012 9:36 am

One of the first deer I ever shot was shot in the neck with a .243 I was young and didnt know much of anything about ballistics, or deer anatomy. He dropped in his tracks. I was thrilled.

The next time I got a shot on a deer, it was a nice 8 point buck. I hit him right in the neck and he went down...and much to my surprise, he jumped back on his feet and bounded off in the distance, never to be seen again.

I felt bad about that deer for a lot of reasons. I really got to hitting the books, learning about terminal ballistics and deer anatomy.

These days I use a .270 or a .30-06 and normally try to hit the heart on my way thru the lungs. I have had a number of them hit the ground dead. One actually made it 60 yards before he dropped, and I did knick his heart.

My favorite angle is the quartering away shot.
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Re: 17 hmr vises 45/70 government

Postby ibedamn » Sun May 06, 2012 2:33 pm

Maybe the next one I shoot will run, but so far that has not been a problem. These are easy shots, it's under 50 yards, shooting from a almost like bench over a corn pile. As I said this is for meat, not horns. I don't know if it makes a difference but, our doe's here rarely make a 100 pounds. Maybe Iv'e just been lucky, you do have me thinking. I can not stand to lose game.

The last buck I shot with a 7Mag, hit through the heart, ran 50-60 yards.

In our area, a lot of people hunt with 223, (mainly kids) and most don't neck shoot em. A big part, maybe 1/3 of the youth guns here on the shelf's at gun shops are 223. Federal even makes a 62 grain fusion loaded round...as they say for larger animals (whatever that means).
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Re: 17 hmr vises 45/70 government

Postby TomKat » Sun May 06, 2012 2:47 pm

I have a .44 Super Blackhawk that is pretty darn accurate. I have been thinking about shooting a meat deer with it.
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Re: 17 hmr vises 45/70 government

Postby talltimber » Mon May 07, 2012 8:29 pm

ibedamn wrote:Maybe the next one I shoot will run, but so far that has not been a problem. These are easy shots, it's under 50 yards, shooting from a almost like bench over a corn pile. As I said this is for meat, not horns. I don't know if it makes a difference but, our doe's here rarely make a 100 pounds. Maybe Iv'e just been lucky, you do have me thinking. I can not stand to lose game.

The last buck I shot with a 7Mag, hit through the heart, ran 50-60 yards.

In our area, a lot of people hunt with 223, (mainly kids) and most don't neck shoot em. A big part, maybe 1/3 of the youth guns here on the shelf's at gun shops are 223. Federal even makes a 62 grain fusion loaded round...as they say for larger animals (whatever that means).


I'm the same way. Doesn't matter if it's a squirrel, duck, deer, whatever. Not because I didn't get to eat it but because, now, it's hit and suffering, and it's my fault. I don't like it at all.
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Re: 17 hmr vises 45/70 government

Postby toolmaker » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:56 pm

Duplex lover wrote:
TomKat wrote:I shot some water jugs this weekend with a .204 Ruger. That is a blazing fast tack driver!!


Thats for sure I also shoot a 22/250 at 4500 fps. :thumbsup:


thats smoking.... I think the fastest loads I saw in the books 20 years ago were runnign about 4000-4200maybe...

I got my best accuracy at 3950 fps......Thinking back..i am guessing it was one of the ball powders...might have even been compressing the powder in the case with a 62 gr boattail.

tight necked chambers Dan Dowling smithed hart barrled 22-250.....3 shot groups as small as .170"

regularly pushing almost anything that went into it down to .375" or less....


havent fired it in 15 years at least!

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