Deer round opinions

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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby GroundSwatter » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:13 pm

DevilDog,

i wouldn't apologize to any of these guys that are bragging about their groups with scopes when you're showing off 100M shots with open sights. Damn fine shooting sir.

I also agree 100%, not all open sights are equal.

I really want to get a lever gun. I've killed at least a couple of deer with a buddies 30-30, so I don't know if I want that or a 45-70. I guess it doesn't matter, I still need to convince my wife that I need one.
It's a fact that 70 percent of the people who purchase heavier tackle do so with the categorical I just lost a huge snook! Einstein Hairdo.The other 30 percent have either Tarpon Fever or are sporting a hand cramped into a claw from a deepwater grouper.
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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby devildog28 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:26 pm

GroundSwatter wrote:DevilDog,

i wouldn't apologize to any of these guys that are bragging about their groups with scopes when you're showing off 100M shots with open sights. Damn fine shooting sir.

I also agree 100%, not all open sights are equal.

I really want to get a lever gun. I've killed at least a couple of deer with a buddies 30-30, so I don't know if I want that or a 45-70. I guess it doesn't matter, I still need to convince my wife that I need one.


I was thinking that someone would appreciate a 1 inch group with open sights :sad: :huh:

But to help in your decision a 45-70 is a venerable classic big game round. The drawbacks are that it has a very high "rainbow" like trajectory and you're only going to get about 100-150 yrds. of accuracy out of it. Plus it would destroy the meat in a deer. But if you must have a big bore round I would suggest the .450 Marlin. It's a much improved 45-70. The gun I shoot isn't a 30-30 in case you're wondering :thumbsup:

As far as the wife goes hmmm. Why not get her the .308 lever and you get the .338, 45-70, or .450. She'd never use it which would mean that it would be "her" gun that she never uses. :yes:
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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby ivegotthefever » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:42 pm

Thanks for all the input guys. Sorry I wasnt very clear but the rifle is for me. By all means continue discussing and giving opinions, I am picking up some good information. I would like to add another factor, what type of optics would you put on top?
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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby don taylor » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:41 pm

devildog28 wrote:
apexhunter wrote:
Personally, I'd consider getting him a BLR in .308 topped with a Leupold 3.5x10 40 mm. From years of experience, his rig is very lightweight, compact, easy as heck to carry, is extremely accurate and the lever is fast & easy to cycle if a follow up shot is needed. I shot many 1/2" groups with factory loaded Federal Premium 150 gr ballistic tips and game king loads from mine with little to no tinkering.


Yeah but you're going to pay a lot more for that BLR than a Marlin. I've held both and own the Marlin .308; the Marlin is lighter and I think has a smoother lever action.



I have a BLR in 308. An original made in Belguim in '71. It by far has the worst trigger of all my guns and cannot be adjusted. They still have that problem on never models. Not that its horrible, but to take advantage of a 300+ yard caliber you need a trigger that breaks a little cleaner.

I'd get a .460 XVR S&W revolver then a .500. I have everything else thats getting tossed around.
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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby devildog28 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:51 pm

ivegotthefever wrote:Thanks for all the input guys. Sorry I wasnt very clear but the rifle is for me. By all means continue discussing and giving opinions, I am picking up some good information. I would like to add another factor, what type of optics would you put on top?


If I was going to mount a scope I would get a Nikon Monarch series scope. It's kind of a middle of the road scope but is very sturdy and has a graduation crosshair.
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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby GroundSwatter » Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:39 am

devildog28 wrote:
GroundSwatter wrote:DevilDog,

i wouldn't apologize to any of these guys that are bragging about their groups with scopes when you're showing off 100M shots with open sights. Damn fine shooting sir.

I also agree 100%, not all open sights are equal.

I really want to get a lever gun. I've killed at least a couple of deer with a buddies 30-30, so I don't know if I want that or a 45-70. I guess it doesn't matter, I still need to convince my wife that I need one.


I was thinking that someone would appreciate a 1 inch group with open sights :sad: :huh:

But to help in your decision a 45-70 is a venerable classic big game round. The drawbacks are that it has a very high "rainbow" like trajectory and you're only going to get about 100-150 yrds. of accuracy out of it. Plus it would destroy the meat in a deer. But if you must have a big bore round I would suggest the .450 Marlin. It's a much improved 45-70. The gun I shoot isn't a 30-30 in case you're wondering :thumbsup:

As far as the wife goes hmmm. Why not get her the .308 lever and you get the .338, 45-70, or .450. She'd never use it which would mean that it would be "her" gun that she never uses. :yes:


I have a scoped 30-06 if I want to go out past 100 yds. Honestly most deer that I shoot are within 100 yds, I don't think I've shot one beyond 150 yds. I know your lever gun is not a 30-30, its a 308 Marlin, but I would personally be between a 30-30 and 45-70. I like the 45-70 b/c as you said its a classical big bore round that Teddy Roosevelt killed every game animal in north america with. I also like that fact that your bullet doesn't need to really expand, meaning the bullet already is what most people .270's and 7mm's are aspiring to be once they expand.

I like seeing all the arguments about lever guns though, considering lever guns were killing deer before most of us were born.
It's a fact that 70 percent of the people who purchase heavier tackle do so with the categorical I just lost a huge snook! Einstein Hairdo.The other 30 percent have either Tarpon Fever or are sporting a hand cramped into a claw from a deepwater grouper.
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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby jrockncash » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:41 am

I own a 45-70 and it is by far my favorite gun to pack. Marlin 1895. It shoots 2.5 groups at 200 yards. I load 250 gr barnes tsx's that with a a few gr. of AA1680 will got almost 2400fps. I also have in the works to load a 425 gr beartooth pile driver jr. that will punch through 6 ft of wet newspaper.

www.chuckhawks.com go to the rifle page then find an article entitled " the one caliber hunting choice" or something like that. There is some very good down to earth realistic advice at that site. Another good article that should be read is "100 yards is a long ways"

Trust me when I tell you that the 45-70 rounds still mushrooms. :hammer: Unless your shooting a super hard cast or solid. I would recommend that combo to alot of guys. But then again you cant kill something unless its 400 yards away and you definately cant kill it if your not shooting a super duper ultra magnum. :lol3:
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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby GroundSwatter » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:08 pm

Well they make hollow point bullets for them, so I assume they shroom out, but the point is, I could use a cast lead bullet and punch all the hole I needed.

I liked the "100 yds is a long ways" article. I have a 30-06, sighted in to be dead on at 100 yds with a 3-9x40 scope on it. The one shot I took with it in the deer woods this year was about 25yds. I was sitting on the ground leaning against a tree. Needless to say that 8 point didn't go too far. I love my 30-06, but I could have taken that deer with my bow.

Oh well, I guess we could start a whole controversial topic on how long is a long ways and whats more exciting, getting close to the animal or staying 500 yds away from it.

But back to topic, if I could only choose one rifle, I would probably choose a bolt action 30-06.
It's a fact that 70 percent of the people who purchase heavier tackle do so with the categorical I just lost a huge snook! Einstein Hairdo.The other 30 percent have either Tarpon Fever or are sporting a hand cramped into a claw from a deepwater grouper.
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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby REDGUN » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:34 pm

devildog28 wrote:
I was thinking that someone would appreciate a 1 inch group with open sights :sad: :huh:


:huh: :huh: The picture you have posted up looks like about a 5" "pattern" to me.

If your are shooting 1" groups at 100 yard with open sights, that is (edited by Mod) AWESOME! :bow: :clapping: :bow:
Last edited by Greg Wile on Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed "F" bomb
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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby devildog28 » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:43 pm

REDGUN wrote:
devildog28 wrote:
I was thinking that someone would appreciate a 1 inch group with open sights :sad: :huh:


:huh: :huh: The picture you have posted up looks like about a 5" "pattern" to me.

If your are shooting 1" groups at 100 yard with open sights, that is(edited by Mod) AWESOME! :bow: :clapping: :bow:


The group right next to the quarter on the right is the one I'm talking about. :thumbsup: I looked through the spotting scope after each shot just to be sure. The others I made the mistake of shooting when my barrel was too hot and the thermals were distorting things a lot :lol3:

So yes I am awesome......

But to be honest I didn't pick up a rifle until Marine boot camp, so I guess I didn't have any bad habits to break :smile:
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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby devildog28 » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:47 pm

jrockncash wrote:I own a 45-70 and it is by far my favorite gun to pack. Marlin 1895. It shoots 2.5 groups at 200 yards. I load 250 gr barnes tsx's that with a a few gr. of AA1680 will got almost 2400fps. I also have in the works to load a 425 gr beartooth pile driver jr. that will punch through 6 ft of wet newspaper.

http://www.chuckhawks.com go to the rifle page then find an article entitled " the one caliber hunting choice" or something like that. There is some very good down to earth realistic advice at that site. Another good article that should be read is "100 yards is a long ways"

Trust me when I tell you that the 45-70 rounds still mushrooms. :hammer: Unless your shooting a super hard cast or solid. I would recommend that combo to alot of guys. But then again you cant kill something unless its 400 yards away and you definately cant kill it if your not shooting a super duper ultra magnum. :lol3:


Me and you think alike!!! Have you ever had any problems with meat destruction?
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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby jrockncash » Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:49 pm

Nothing compared to a .270 with a nosler partition. Or a .300 win mag with a Ballistic tip. I shoot the FTX and a barnes TSX through it. Both do very well on critters. They dont come apart like some other types of bullets so meat damage is minimal.
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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby Kurt » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:38 am

I would love to see some one come and get with in 100 yds of a speed goat during rifle season. It is hard to understand the open areas we have to hunt until you hunt them. When shooting a group every shot counts not just the ones that are close to each other regardless of the excuse of hot barrel or thermals. Tell me at 100 yds what thermal are going to do? So what about clod bore which one of the shots was that one so we dont count it. You like the lever action guns thats cool but any one that tells me they are as accurate as bolt guns or even gas guns is living in there own little world. Show me one just one lever gun in a fclass match and i will never doubt there accuracy agin
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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby GroundSwatter » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:05 am

ivegotthefever wrote:Thanks for all the input guys. Sorry I wasnt very clear but the rifle is for me. By all means continue discussing and giving opinions, I am picking up some good information. I would like to add another factor, what type of optics would you put on top?


I have a Nikon monarch on top of my 30-06 and it works pretty well. Leupold would be a step up, but you get more scope for the money on a Nikon. It all depends on how much you want to spend.
It's a fact that 70 percent of the people who purchase heavier tackle do so with the categorical I just lost a huge snook! Einstein Hairdo.The other 30 percent have either Tarpon Fever or are sporting a hand cramped into a claw from a deepwater grouper.
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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby devildog28 » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:47 pm

Kurt wrote:I would love to see some one come and get with in 100 yds of a speed goat during rifle season. It is hard to understand the open areas we have to hunt until you hunt them. When shooting a group every shot counts not just the ones that are close to each other regardless of the excuse of hot barrel or thermals. Tell me at 100 yds what thermal are going to do? So what about clod bore which one of the shots was that one so we dont count it. You like the lever action guns thats cool but any one that tells me they are as accurate as bolt guns or even gas guns is living in there own little world. Show me one just one lever gun in a fclass match and i will never doubt there accuracy agin


Ok smarty I highly doubt my barrell would be heated up that much unless I just walked out of the truck and started blazing away :lol3: :lol3: That would be some redneck scat right there :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:

I've never hunted antelope so I doubt I could get within a hundred yards without someone giving me some pointers. :thumbsup:
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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby waterfowlhunter » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:38 pm

I will start with saying that lever guns "can be" accurate, but most are not what I would call accurate. I did have a marlin 45-70 guide gun that would print little clover leafs at 100 yds and the guy shooting his DPMS varmint rifle was a bit more than annoyed when my groups were smaller than his.

If you are going to shoot a lot and do not reload, go with the 308. It will reliably take anything in N. America with the correct load and it is not hard on your shoulder. it is a short action gun so a bit lighter to carry and ammo is available everywhere.

Of your listed, 30-06 would be my next choice, I have owned both and both are great rounds, The 308 BARELY gives up anything to the 30-06 in terms of range and energy with 150 to 168gr bullets. The 30-06 beats it all over when you start moving up into the 180 to 220gr bullets though. A 308 is usually rifled 1 in 12(better for the shorter 30cal bullets) and the 30-06 usually will be a 1 in 10 twist(better for the longer 30 cal bullets).


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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby jrockncash » Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:21 pm

Kurt wrote:I would love to see some one come and get with in 100 yds of a speed goat during rifle season. It is hard to understand the open areas we have to hunt until you hunt them. When shooting a group every shot counts not just the ones that are close to each other regardless of the excuse of hot barrel or thermals. Tell me at 100 yds what thermal are going to do? So what about clod bore which one of the shots was that one so we dont count it. You like the lever action guns thats cool but any one that tells me they are as accurate as bolt guns or even gas guns is living in there own little world. Show me one just one lever gun in a fclass match and i will never doubt there accuracy agin



Dude you say that like no one has ever hunted antelope before and we dont know how open the "west" is. Ive killed two antelope and both were under 100 yards. Its a personal choice if you want to try and hunt something or to Shoot something. Thats why guys like Jim Shockey are so impressive to me. He chooses to hunt with a smokepole and does very good with it.

No kidding a lever gun isnt going to be as accurate as a bench rifle. But most new levers are plenty accurate if you shoot within your means. If you want to blaze away at 500 yards so be it. You sound like you put in the time according to what you have said here on the internet. But most guys dont and would be better off getting a reasonable caliber in a light gun and trying to get as close as possible.

x 3 on the Nikon, its a good scope for the money.
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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby Greg Wile » Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:11 am

ivegotthefever wrote:Hey everyone, I am looking into trying my hand at some Colorado deer hunting this year with my grandfather as he may not have much time left in the woods, if you know what I mean. Anyways I have been looking at different calibers for deer and don't really know which way to go. I have shot rifles, shotguns, pistol all that I just don't have enough time behind the glass trying to take a deer to know which would be ideal for that situation. I am considering .308, 7mm, or 30-06. These seem to be the standard. What are your experiences, recommendations, comments, etc? Should I look at something else? I want to get the rifle now so that I can get it sighted in and practice all summer.


I don't know where every one got the idea that the gun you are looking into buying is for your grandfather but that's how things get twisted. If all you ever plan on hunting is deer or deer sized game any of the calibers you listed will work just fine. The truth of the matter is the difference between the .30-06 and .308 is minimal and many elk, moose etc.. have been harvested with the .308 with out any problems. If you are a hunter verses a sniper you will try and get as close to the game as possible and especially if you are hunting with an older person who no doubt has trouble with his eye sight and holding a gun steady for long range shots. So given all the above I would go to a dealer try some different style guns for fit and feel then if possible try some different deer calibers from each type of gun on the range. This way you will get the gun that suits,and fits you and your style of hunting.

Deer hunting is not target shooting nor is it varmint hunting where super fine accuracy is necessary. Don't fall into the trap of bigger is better. Find what works for you. If you plan on traveling some for hunting get a caliber that will be easy to buy ammo for and with all the controversy on semi auto and assault style/type fire arms I would tend to avoid those type guns but to each their own. I hope this has been of some help, good luck .
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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby jrockncash » Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:11 am

Greg Wile wrote:
ivegotthefever wrote:Hey everyone, I am looking into trying my hand at some Colorado deer hunting this year with my grandfather as he may not have much time left in the woods, if you know what I mean. Anyways I have been looking at different calibers for deer and don't really know which way to go. I have shot rifles, shotguns, pistol all that I just don't have enough time behind the glass trying to take a deer to know which would be ideal for that situation. I am considering .308, 7mm, or 30-06. These seem to be the standard. What are your experiences, recommendations, comments, etc? Should I look at something else? I want to get the rifle now so that I can get it sighted in and practice all summer.


I don't know where every one got the idea that the gun you are looking into buying is for your grandfather but that's how things get twisted. If all you ever plan on hunting is deer or deer sized game any of the calibers you listed will work just fine. The truth of the matter is the difference between the .30-06 and .308 is minimal and many elk, moose etc.. have been harvested with the .308 with out any problems. If you are a hunter verses a sniper you will try and get as close to the game as possible and especially if you are hunting with an older person who no doubt has trouble with his eye sight and holding a gun steady for long range shots. So given all the above I would go to a dealer try some different style guns for fit and feel then if possible try some different deer calibers from each type of gun on the range. This way you will get the gun that suits,and fits you and your style of hunting.

Deer hunting is not target shooting nor is it varmint hunting where super fine accuracy is necessary. Don't fall into the trap of bigger is better. Find what works for you. If you plan on traveling some for hunting get a caliber that will be easy to buy ammo for and with all the controversy on semi auto and assault style/type fire arms I would tend to avoid those type guns but to each their own. I hope this has been of some help, good luck .



Sage advice ol buddy!
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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby Sagebrush » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:40 am

The old 30-30 was king of the hills in the 1800's..........

With the new 160gr poly tip Hornady it is a 300 yard killer today !!


Just thought I would toss a monkey wrench into the works................ :hi:
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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby Kurt » Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:07 pm

30-30 Win 160 gr FTX LEVERevolution 82730
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd
2400/2046 2150/1643 1916/1304 1699/1025

Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300
-1.7 3.0 0.2 -12.1

Not bad wonder what the wind drift would be with a 15 mph cross wind at 300
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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby Greg Wile » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:58 am

It is funny how every one gets all jittery and worked up over a subject as simple as accuracy. It really doesn't matter a whole lot when some one starts saying that their gun is the most accurate thing this side of Jupiter from the bench when one is talking hunting. How many of us carry a shooting bench to the woods or fields with us. Most of us can shoot very well from a bench but very few do well off hand. I use to shoot in a lot of black powder matches where all shooting was done off hand with open sights at varying ranges. No peep or tang sights and no target sights just primative type sights. So if you can take your 700 and shoot off hand at the edge of a playing card at 15 yards and cut that card in two with one shot I will say you are a good shot if you can take your center fire rifle and shoot at an axe head blade on at 25 yards split the bullet and break a clay pigeon on each side of the axe head then you can shoot very well but until that day comes stop your bragging and practise, because I have and can with my Lyman Trade Rifle that I built from a kit at my Kitchen table. Accuracy needs several things good tools , good conditions and a good operator. An awful lot of 1000 meter matches have been won with the .45 - 70. Many more matches were won with the .38 -55 at ranges of 100 to 500 yards and these were shot with open sights. Many of those groups shot with those old inaccurate rounds in guns built in the 1800's and early 1900's would be hard to beat today with a modern scoped factory rifle in any caliber. Think about it.
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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby Kurt » Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:06 pm

Who shoots factory guns it is like riding a stock snowmobile boring
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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby don taylor » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:23 pm

Kurt wrote:Who shoots factory guns it is like riding a stock snowmobile boring



Let me guess.. You have a bunch of do-dads screwed all over your guns? What would you have me do to my old model 94? a bull barrel and bed the stock?
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Re: Deer round opinions

Postby Kurt » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:44 pm

What are do-dads is that like tactikool. I guess if you need a jack handle it might work for that?
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