Rifle accuracy opinions

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Rifle accuracy opinions

Postby REDGUN » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:00 am

Everyone's idea of accuracy is different. What is your "idea" of deer rifle accuracy?

I will sell/get rid of any rifle I can't get to shoot under 1 inch at 100 yards. Went through 4 different 270 WSM's when they first came out for this reason, ended up having one built to meet my goals.

What is your idea of "acceptable" accuracy for a deer rifle? What do you guys require from the rifles you hunt with?
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Re: Rifle accuracy opinions

Postby jrockncash » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:06 pm

Less than MOA!? Im happy with minute of deer.

I think too many guys get caught up on how the gun shoots out of the box. They dont work up loads, they dont accurize their rifle, and they dont break in barrels. Another one is not adjusting your trigger to maximize its potential. Then they bitch it shoots 1 1/2" groups and sell it. Most guns with work will shoot just fine. If a person is a hunter then 2MOA is good enough. If you are a shooter then you may have to tighten it up a bit.

If you want your gun accurized right ,I have a buddy that does all my gun work. He is meticulous. And doesnt charge an arm and a leg. We have done a bunch of guns and every one has ended up significantly more accurate. My .270 was horrible and after some work it now shoots nickel sized groups.

It just depends on your style of hunting. Although it is funny to see a guy trying to hike with a 28" barreled varmint stocked bipod enhanced 14 pound gun.
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Re: Rifle accuracy opinions

Postby Kurt » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:13 pm

At 100 yds 1 moa is alright though i like better when i get work done on the gun. Trigger makes a huge difference and so does the glass. If there is one thing not to skimp on it is glass. I always get a kick out of the guys that wonder why there groups change all the time when they are using barfska,bsa, or any of that other chinese junk. Not enough people practice the techniques need to shoot accurate like dry firing and controlled breathing. They just go out shoot 6-7 times hit the target and say good enough and then cant believe they miss. So far since the start of the year my round count is 435 so hopefully when it gets nice out i can shoot alot more.
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Re: Rifle accuracy opinions

Postby OkieHunter » Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:11 pm

My deer rifles will shoot 1" or Under Groups at 100 yards or I will sell them and build another. I have always figured that if I miss I want it to be me not the rifle that missed. Just my opinion
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Re: Rifle accuracy opinions

Postby REDGUN » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:10 pm

OkieHunter wrote:My deer rifles will shoot 1" or Under Groups at 100 yards or I will sell them and build another. I have always figured that if I miss I want it to be me not the rifle that missed.


My thought's exactly. :thumbsup:
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Re: Rifle accuracy opinions

Postby don taylor » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:56 pm

My .44 S&W had a Red dot on it that covered a 5 inch circle at 100 yards. It shot 5 inch groups with that set up. My newer Leupold 2x scope has shrunk it down to a 2.5 inch group. Guess what I've noticed? Nothing. Deer still die. You can't pinpoint the location of vital organs to the extent that a 1 moa gun is needed until 500 plus yards. Besides, the heart alone is 5 inches across and trauma from the bullet fragmenting extends several inches in every direction from the entry channel. I shoot black powder, old flintlocks and pistols that fall short of target grade shooters, but have never let me down on flesh.

If you misss with a gun that shoots 3 moa how is it the guns fault? Even at 300 yards your still in a 9 inch pie plate circle, the size of vitals. If your shooting in heavy wind ect, you may have issues but all in all i think a tack driver is for impressing buddies.
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Re: Rifle accuracy opinions

Postby Kurt » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:03 pm

Thats why i love shooting pdogs at short 300 yards with an acurate gun, 3moa gun you will be missing all day long. guess it is all in what makes a person happy. I love shooting just to shoot and the competeing with people to see who can shoot the best. So if all you are going to do each year is shoot a few deer at the ranges that most people do out east 3 moa will be more than good. But if you are going to come and shoot pdogs at 750 yds then you better do a little better then 1moa at 100yds
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Re: Rifle accuracy opinions

Postby fenton_3 » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:20 pm

When I go to the public gun range very rarely do I see an individual who can shoot sub 1 moa groups, and when I do its ussaly a .223 varmint gun. So either us at duck hunting chat are really good shots, or we have a few guys that like to talk the talk. I have a .300wsm that shoots under 2 moa which I consider more than accurate enough to hunt big game with. In theory that puts me in a 6" or so circle at 300 yrds; which is my max range. I have never shot anything at that range, but it is my personal max range! It amazes me how so many get obsesed with 1 moa guns from a bench, but never take into account real world shooting in the field. A 1 moa "bench gun" does no good if you can shoot in the field. Now lets get ready for the BS to start flying!!!

P.S. this is not a personal attack on anyone, but its impossible that everyone shoot sub moa groups!
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Re: Rifle accuracy opinions

Postby devildog28 » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:32 pm

Never tried to shoot 1 MOA with a scope, 99% of my shooting has been open sighted. I'm more of a believer in good fundamentals than equipment.

to sum it up I don't care if you can hit 1" groups on a lead sled rest at the range. Real accuracy is shooting a target off-hand 200 yards away and hitting it the first time in rain, snow, and wind. It's not that hard with good training. When I qualified on the rifle range during my enlistment it was always during summer with thermals distorting the target, and that was the good years. The last one was in pouring rain.
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Re: Rifle accuracy opinions

Postby Kurt » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:46 pm

I must be good then because the last time i had rifle qualify with my m-16 a2 i shot expert that was in 2002 my last year in. Out of 6 years 47-50 was the worst i qualified at. but i think that i apples to oranges. You are shooting a weapon that is just plain and no work. But with a scoped rifle you can make it shoot good. There must be a reason that scout snipers shoot bolt guns with scopes if we are talking about military training those guys are some thing special.
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Re: Rifle accuracy opinions

Postby devildog28 » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:05 pm

Kurt wrote:I must be good then because the last time i had rifle qualify with my m-16 a2 i shot expert that was in 2002 my last year in. Out of 6 years 47-50 was the worst i qualified at. but i think that i apples to oranges. You are shooting a weapon that is just plain and no work. But with a scoped rifle you can make it shoot good. There must be a reason that scout snipers shoot bolt guns with scopes if we are talking about military training those guys are some thing special.


Yep 47-50 makes you a pro :thumbsup: From what I know bolt actions are more accurate because the locking bolt holds the rounds more steady. But say compared to a lets say M-14 the gains aren't exponentially better. If I remember right the Corps rifle team uses them, not bolt actions. Think about this, the M-21 sniper rifle is semi, the M-82 barrett is semi as well. And yes I am referring to military training. The training we got is the best in world hands down.

Would I ever own a bolt action? the answer is a resounding hell yes!!!!!!! In fact I plan on buying a savage 10 later this year when the newness of the one I just bought wears off :yes:
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Re: Rifle accuracy opinions

Postby waterfowlhunter » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:57 pm

I like a rifle to be under moa. All of my handloads will do that in my Browning A-bolt 300 WSM's. In my varmint rifles I want one ragged hole or it is back to the loading bench for some more loads. if that does not work the rifle is sold. I have NEVER owned a custom built rifle, Too costly IMO when I can do the same thing with a factory browning, AR or savage and some reloading/range work. I had a 30-06 savage that would shoot under 1/2" @ 100yds with factory winchester silvertips and at the time I used it for everything from deer to crows.

I always do a slight barrel conditioning / break in. I know some say it is not necessary but I still do it for the first 20 shots(shoot, clean, cool, repeat) and I never let the barrel get too hot. I do not know if it helps but I do it anyway.
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Re: Rifle accuracy opinions

Postby devildog28 » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:28 pm

Crows with a 30-06! Just when I thought I had heard it all about shooting weird animals with high powered guns. You must either have a lot of ammo or am really bored :beer:
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Re: Rifle accuracy opinions

Postby waterfowlhunter » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:27 am

devildog28 wrote:Crows with a 30-06! Just when I thought I had heard it all about shooting weird animals with high powered guns. You must either have a lot of ammo or am really bored :beer:


Neither, It was the only rifle I had and the crows liked to hang out at the dump where we practiced at....
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Re: Rifle accuracy opinions

Postby ALMODUX » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:37 am

Seems to me, it should depend on the task at hand and the caliber, etc. I mean, I've had .44 mag carbines where anything less than 4"@100 was just fine. All I used it for was deer to 100 yards. My 30/30 would be acceptable if it shot anything under 3"@100yards, but since it shoots around 1"@100 with Leverlutions, it's a bonus. Even a typical 'deer' bolt gun doesn't 'have' to be any better than 2" for many. I've has Ruger RSIs that I couldn't get under 2", consistently. That was just fine, as my use for them was as a woods gun adn I couldn't see a >300 yard shot possibility on a deer in their future. My varmint guns or varmint/deer combo setups, I've asked a little more of....being uncomfortable if I couldn't get under 3/4" groups at 100 yards, with one that would do 1/2" with three different factory loads at the same POI at 100 yards, and it would do 1/4" for a buddy of mine....simply because he was a heck of a bench machine. :biggrin: So long as it fits the task at hand with it's accuracy, I'm not too picky about numbers. I used to be, but gradually figured out it wasn't worth all of the effort, save for special uses and scenarios. :biggrin:
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Re: Rifle accuracy opinions

Postby REDGUN » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:04 am

devildog28 wrote:to sum it up I don't care if you can hit 1" groups on a lead sled rest at the range. Real accuracy is shooting a target off-hand 200 yards away and hitting it the first time in rain, snow, and wind.


I guess my question here is: How big is "the target"? :huh:

I mean if you are practicing on paper targets, in the above situation, are you happy to hit paper? To put all shots in the black? Or are they all in the X-ring?
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Re: Rifle accuracy opinions

Postby devildog28 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:45 am

REDGUN wrote:
devildog28 wrote:to sum it up I don't care if you can hit 1" groups on a lead sled rest at the range. Real accuracy is shooting a target off-hand 200 yards away and hitting it the first time in rain, snow, and wind.


I guess my question here is: How big is "the target"? :huh:

I mean if you are practicing on paper targets, in the above situation, are you happy to hit paper? To put all shots in the black? Or are they all in the X-ring?



At 200 yards as good as I am I doubt I could group 1-2" ! My favorite non prone position is the sitting. If done right it can be almost as stable as the prone or bench. But off hand there's no doubt I could nail a kill area at 200 meters. Used to have to all the time. Anybody that can do better than that is a liar or should be on the Olympic team!
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Re: Rifle accuracy opinions

Postby don taylor » Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:15 pm

waterfowlhunter wrote:
devildog28 wrote:Crows with a 30-06! Just when I thought I had heard it all about shooting weird animals with high powered guns. You must either have a lot of ammo or am really bored :beer:


Neither, It was the only rifle I had and the crows liked to hang out at the dump where we practiced at....



My father used to go "squirrel barking" to warm up for deer season. You take your deer rifle, my dads choice was 300 weatherby, and head out to the woods. When you get a squirrel inside gun range, you aim for the tree directly underneath the squirrels belly. The flying bark shrapnel launches their toothpick skewered bodies skyward.

You have to be careful about a backstop when you shoot though.
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Re: Rifle accuracy opinions

Postby devildog28 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:26 pm

don taylor wrote:
waterfowlhunter wrote:
devildog28 wrote:Crows with a 30-06! Just when I thought I had heard it all about shooting weird animals with high powered guns. You must either have a lot of ammo or am really bored :beer:


Neither, It was the only rifle I had and the crows liked to hang out at the dump where we practiced at....



My father used to go "squirrel barking" to warm up for deer season. You take your deer rifle, my dads choice was 300 weatherby, and head out to the woods. When you get a squirrel inside gun range, you aim for the tree directly underneath the squirrels belly. The flying bark shrapnel launches their toothpick skewered bodies skyward.

You have to be careful about a backstop when you shoot though.


Of course you'd post up some goofy shooting excursions. But I would like to try that one :thumbsup:
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Re: Rifle accuracy opinions

Postby Kurt » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:31 am

devildog28 wrote:
REDGUN wrote:
devildog28 wrote:to sum it up I don't care if you can hit 1" groups on a lead sled rest at the range. Real accuracy is shooting a target off-hand 200 yards away and hitting it the first time in rain, snow, and wind.


I guess my question here is: How big is "the target"? :huh:

I mean if you are practicing on paper targets, in the above situation, are you happy to hit paper? To put all shots in the black? Or are they all in the X-ring?



At 200 yards as good as I am I doubt I could group 1-2" ! My favorite non prone position is the sitting. If done right it can be almost as stable as the prone or bench. But off hand there's no doubt I could nail a kill area at 200 meters. Used to have to all the time. Anybody that can do better than that is a liar or should be on the Olympic team!


Shooting a deer and a flip up target are 2 different things, if that was not the case i would have a 171" buck on the wall. I know the size because it was shot 2 days latter. Now i have shooting sticks at all times no need to shoot off hand learned that lesson the hard way
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Re: Rifle accuracy opinions

Postby Sagebrush » Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:17 pm

If you are young and have good eyes and steady nerves open sights will work great at 100 to 200 yards.

I needed a scope when I reached 45 or so in order to get tighter groups at 200 plus.

All rifles need good optics,bedding and a good triger along with the correct ammo, to shoot good groups.
If you take a box of Federal,Remington,Winchester etc in two different bullet weights, you will see different
impact areas and groups from these six loads.

Only time at the target range will tell if the gun is a keeper, not just 40 rounds...........................
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