OPEN CARRY

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OPEN CARRY

Postby steelslinger » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:31 pm

Quick question, I know that you need a permit to carry concealed. Are there not quite a few states out there that will let you open carry (Arizona)? If they will let you carry open then why would you want to have a conceal permit. Can you do things with a conceal permit that you can't do with open carry.
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Re: OPEN CARRY

Postby shoot-n-goose » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:14 pm

In Michigan it is legal to open carry without a permit as long as you can legally own a handgun. But without a permit you cant drive with it on your person in your vehicle. You have to unload it and have it cased and in a seperate compartment from the ammo.

The other thing is when you OC everyone knows you have a gun. Simply showing others you have a gun can make you a target.

There are many more reasons but those are what i came up with off the top of my head. I'm sure others will add
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Re: OPEN CARRY

Postby devildog28 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:51 pm

shoot-n-goose wrote:
The other thing is when you OC everyone knows you have a gun. Simply showing others you have a gun can make you a target.



I mean no disrespect but that is one of the most rediculous statements about OC I keep hearing. I have yet to hear of someone being assaulted because someone knew they had a weapon. Criminals are a largly cowardly group. Imagine two skinny meek looking guys on a dark street. Which one do you think is going be a target?

The only people targeting OC citizens are liberals who want to do away with guns. :rolleyes:
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Re: OPEN CARRY

Postby ajmorell » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:02 pm

devildog28 wrote:
shoot-n-goose wrote:
The other thing is when you OC everyone knows you have a gun. Simply showing others you have a gun can make you a target.

The only people targeting OC citizens are liberals who want to do away with guns. :rolleyes:


You ain't kidding.......


I think the problem with open carry is that most people aren't aware it's legal and it's not conceived very well by the majority of the population....I think a lot of people would panic if they saw a guy just open carrying a gun walking into somewhere, they would automatically assume he was going to commit a crime.
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Re: OPEN CARRY

Postby shoot-n-goose » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:04 pm

devildog28 wrote:
shoot-n-goose wrote:
The other thing is when you OC everyone knows you have a gun. Simply showing others you have a gun can make you a target.



I mean no disrespect but that is one of the most rediculous statements about OC I keep hearing. I have yet to hear of someone being assaulted because someone knew they had a weapon. Criminals are a largly cowardly group. Imagine two skinny meek looking guys on a dark street. Which one do you think is going be a target?

The only people targeting OC citizens are liberals who want to do away with guns. :rolleyes:



I was simply stating a fact. If someone is going to forcefully rob a bank, who are the first people they take out? The ARMED guards, simply because they know they have weapons. Now imagine if Joe Schmoe was OCing in that bank and the robbers come busting in. Whos gonna be in their sights?

Hell, a criminal seeing your gun might prevent them from doing something.
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Re: OPEN CARRY

Postby shoot-n-goose » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:09 pm

ajmorell wrote: I think a lot of people would panic if they saw a guy just open carrying a gun walking into somewhere, they would automatically assume he was going to commit a crime.


Thats another reason i forgot to mention, and one that would (does) prevent me (and it would be a pain in my butt to be loading and unloading my gun everytime i got in the truck). I enjoy a good arguement and would get nothing done if i had to spend my time schooling the misinformed. That and people would be calling the cops right and left since i live in the middle of a city.
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Re: OPEN CARRY

Postby ajmorell » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:37 pm

shoot-n-goose wrote:
ajmorell wrote: I think a lot of people would panic if they saw a guy just open carrying a gun walking into somewhere, they would automatically assume he was going to commit a crime.


Thats another reason i forgot to mention, and one that would (does) prevent me (and it would be a pain in my butt to be loading and unloading my gun everytime i got in the truck). I enjoy a good arguement and would get nothing done if i had to spend my time schooling the misinformed. That and people would be calling the cops right and left since i live in the middle of a city.



Yep, agree 100%. It's sad just how mis-informed this country is...and not with just respect to guns either. :no:
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Re: OPEN CARRY

Postby Preacher1011 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:53 pm

http://opencarry.org/opencarry.html

You can thank don taylor for that link. :thumbsup:
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Re: OPEN CARRY

Postby devildog28 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:36 pm

shoot-n-goose wrote:
ajmorell wrote: I think a lot of people would panic if they saw a guy just open carrying a gun walking into somewhere, they would automatically assume he was going to commit a crime.


Thats another reason i forgot to mention, and one that would (does) prevent me (and it would be a pain in my butt to be loading and unloading my gun everytime i got in the truck). I enjoy a good arguement and would get nothing done if i had to spend my time schooling the misinformed. That and people would be calling the cops right and left since i live in the middle of a city.


I understand what your saying, but people's unnecessary fears be damned! I always unload and show clear in the grass behind where I park. I've had a few people freak out but like I just said I don't give a damn about their "precious" nerves when it comes to safety. There's no way in hell I'm unloading inside my truck. The law here says that you must make a reasonable attempt to conceal your weapon. Well unloading in my truck with the small chance of a ricochett isn't reasonable.

And if they called the cops I would tell them just what I stated here, and they'd probably applaud me for taking every step to be safe.
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Re: OPEN CARRY

Postby devildog28 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:42 pm

shoot-n-goose wrote:
devildog28 wrote:
shoot-n-goose wrote:
The other thing is when you OC everyone knows you have a gun. Simply showing others you have a gun can make you a target.



I mean no disrespect but that is one of the most rediculous statements about OC I keep hearing. I have yet to hear of someone being assaulted because someone knew they had a weapon. Criminals are a largly cowardly group. Imagine two skinny meek looking guys on a dark street. Which one do you think is going be a target?

The only people targeting OC citizens are liberals who want to do away with guns. :rolleyes:



I was simply stating a fact. If someone is going to forcefully rob a bank, who are the first people they take out? The ARMED guards, simply because they know they have weapons. Now imagine if Joe Schmoe was OCing in that bank and the robbers come busting in. Whos gonna be in their sights?

Hell, a criminal seeing your gun might prevent them from doing something.


In said situation those guards should earn their pay and be diligent to see those scumbags in the parking lot and already be ready. That isn't a lot to ask by any means.
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Re: OPEN CARRY

Postby shoot-n-goose » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:49 pm

By "unloading" for vehicle transport I meant that unless you have a CCW you have to transport the pistol just like any other firearm. You can unload it anywhere you please, but it must be empty and cased in a seperate compartment from the ammo while in a vehicle. So i would have to unload my pistol (outside of the truck), put it in its case, store it behind the seat, and put the ammo in the bed of the truck, which is capped(If a truck has no topper the ammo has to be in a glove box or in a location that both the pistol and ammo cannot be accessed while driving). If it were a car you would have to put the ammo in the trunk to seperate it from the pistol.

Sorry if it cause any confusion. i didnt mean you must unload it in a car, but before you enter the car. Once you enter a vehicle with a pistol on your person the firearm is considered concealed (in Michigan)
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Re: OPEN CARRY

Postby devildog28 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:54 pm

I was goona ask you where you lived, but I saw it at the end of your post. I feel bad for you people there. Here in Tx they passed the Castle laws where you're allowed to defend yourself without retreating not only in your house, but while you're operating a motor vehicle. So you can keep it loaded. The only stipulation is that you have to conceal it from public view.
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Re: OPEN CARRY

Postby apexhunter » Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:35 am

NC is also an open carry state but very, very few people do it outside of the more rural areas. The way our laws are here it is almost prohibitive to do what is otherwise totally legal. All it takes is 1 person to tell a LEO that he is "uncomfortable" with somebody OC'ing and he/she must either concel the weapon (if they are legal to do so) or put it away.

As far as transport is concerned, if you have a CCP it isn't a problem as it can be concealed on or about your person. If you don't have a CCP you can transport it anywhere in a vehicle, empty OR loaded, as long as it is either in plain sight (on the seat, dash or on the console) or in a locked container of some kind where a key or combination lock is required to operate for access. This can be a lockable briefcase, locked glove box, the trunk or any lockable container.

The ironic thing around here is the different places that one cannot legally CC but can OC in a totally legal fashion. Everybody knows that you cannot CC into any State or Federal building, school property or business where alcolol is consumed, etc, but unless the building is otherwise posted to prevent firearms you can legally open carry into some of the places. Take banks for instance, most ARE posted to prevent firearms from being brought in, but if one does not have the legally required posting anybody can OC right through the doors and be totally within the law...same for restaurants that serve alcohol.
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Re: OPEN CARRY

Postby don taylor » Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:02 pm

I'm the guy who OC's while riding a motorcycle. A .45 kimber in a underarm holster is my choice.

If a LEO EVER tells you to put your gun away DO NOT COMPLY! You are then CONCEALING your gun. Now you are a lawbreaker. You have a right to bear arms. Period.
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Re: OPEN CARRY

Postby Preacher1011 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:13 pm

don taylor wrote:I'm the guy who OC's while riding a motorcycle. A .45 kimber in a underarm holster is my choice.

If a LEO EVER tells you to put your gun away DO NOT COMPLY! You are then CONCEALING your gun. Now you are a lawbreaker. You have a right to bear arms. Period.


Just make sure you have a carry permit if required, and that the state you are going to accepts your states permit. I know you already know this don, I'm just letting the other folks on here know.
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Re: OPEN CARRY

Postby don taylor » Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:18 pm

The reason I responded that way is because its a LEO trick used to start a search. I don't give an inch. I've been stopped before and questioned. I've even had a LEO ask to handle my gun. I told him as long as he didn't mind me handling his I'd prefer to keep it holstered. I'm not a criminal and refused to be treated as one. Its funny how me exercising my 2nd amendments rights is so shocking to some people.
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Re: OPEN CARRY

Postby devildog28 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:28 pm

don taylor wrote:The reason I responded that way is because its a LEO trick used to start a search. I don't give an inch. I've been stopped before and questioned. I've even had a LEO ask to handle my gun. I told him as long as he didn't mind me handling his I'd prefer to keep it holstered. I'm not a criminal and refused to be treated as one. Its funny how me exercising my 2nd amendments rights is so shocking to some people.


I can tell me and you would get along great. :biggrin:

Here in TX open carry of long guns is legal and you can be damn sure I DON'T make an effort to discretely carry 'em so "joe ****" or "daddy's princess" don't get offended when I'm going to the range or hunting.
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Re: OPEN CARRY

Postby waterfowlhunter » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:07 pm

I did not read every post as a lot of them were just over quoting again and again.

I have read (police journal I believe) that there are a lot more issues with open carry than the authorities want to deal with. Mainly the people that are "anti gunners" like to call 911 on open carry people, then the police MUST respond wasting their time and yours. and there is no recourse aginst them at all. There is also the issue that, probably remote, but probable that a thug can walk up behind or you walk by them and they too have open access to your gun. I shoot IDPA and we do drills (moc guns) where the perp is trying to take your "concealed" pistol and it is quite easy when your expecting it, especially a doped up 300 pound gorilla that can over power a lot of people. Imagine if you are not expecting it how easy it would be. You can not draw and fire your gun as quickly as someone can grab it out of your holster. This even happens to cops that are trained extensively to counter this action and have retension straps on some of their holsters. I carry with no retention besides the molding of the holster and would only carry open if it was required.

we have done 7 yd drills where the perp runs at you with a knife and can stab you before you have time to pull your gun. Try it sometime but only with dummy guns and knives.

I do like knowing that I can carry open if I had to.
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Re: OPEN CARRY

Postby don taylor » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:06 pm

You have to put yourself in the worst possible scenario. How does a perp armed with a knife get that close without me drawing? You have to put yourself in the worst possible situation to make yourself ineffective. I practice for the situations which I have some more control. Yes a freak thing can happen where I'm the first target, but give me a half second and my sights are aligning with your forehead.

We don't have to look back further than 150 years where everyone wore a gun. Everyone OC'd. It was a way of life. The murder rate was lower back then because everyone knew everyone else was packing. It kept cowards and idiots in line.
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Re: OPEN CARRY

Postby shoot-n-goose » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:22 pm

don taylor wrote:You have to put yourself in the worst possible scenario. How does a perp armed with a knife get that close without me drawing?


Another thing to consider is what do you think you would do if you didnt have a pistol on you? The guy would still attack you. I would rather take my chances with a delayed draw then be defenseless in a fight with a guy that has a knife.

Also there is the fact that its faster to draw when open carrying then when you have a concealed pistol. (and dont start saying your the fastest draw this side of the mississippi from a concealed position, or else police would carry that way)
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Re: OPEN CARRY

Postby don taylor » Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:46 pm

I carry a sweet Benchmade Stryker II auto. Bring the knife fight.

What it can really come down to is who the biggest bad azz in the room is. I'd like to say I'm 100% certain its always going to be me. If you have any less of faith in yourself, by all means you shouldn't carry. I'll take my destiny into my own hands.
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Re: OPEN CARRY

Postby waterfowlhunter » Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:00 am

don taylor wrote:The murder rate was lower back then because everyone knew everyone else was packing. It kept cowards and idiots in line.


The number of murders was lower but you might want to check % on that. the population was less than 1/10 of what it is today.

I have no problem with open carry but only a SMALL percentge of us gun toters actually shoot and practice weekly to keep proficient in accuracy and mindset.

I hope to NEVER be in a position where deadly force is required to preserve life but if it happens I will be ready...
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Re: OPEN CARRY

Postby don taylor » Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:54 am

I've been searching for my source but can't find it. They did manage to try and take in everything from the lack of medical care vs. today and not being skewed with accidents and suicides which always find there way into these statistics. I cut the story from a medical journal back in the 90's. Back then we were close to 40,000 a year. The wild west didn't come close to 1994 in the height of the gangs. Its a tough subject to even research. Everything you find on the internet is by some baised source.
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Re: OPEN CARRY

Postby gdun » Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:44 am

I know in California you can open carry. You must be unloaded, but you can have a loaded magazine in a holster pouch right next to your gun. The only thing you can't do without a CCW is carry a loaded gun and you can't hide your gun.
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Re: OPEN CARRY

Postby VtechSkybuster » Tue May 04, 2010 6:16 am

In Vt we have no Concealed Carry Laws. They dont even give permits if u wanted to apply for one. We do what we want when we want where we want! Gotta Love it! The Day I Turned 21 i bought my SR9 and took it home that day :grooving:. At 18 you can have a hand gun but u cant buy them or ammo until u turn 21.
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