Handgun in Bars?

From the .22 to the mighty 50 caliber

Moderator: fowl_wishes

Handgun in Bars?

Postby Pintail-Peeler » Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:16 am

I would like to hear yalls input on the debate about handguns being allowed into any drinking establishment. I have my CHL and I personally dont recommend the ability to have your personal firearm in a bar. They are saying that if you were to have your gun in the bar, you would not be able to have a sip of alchohol while there. Although this is a good idea, how will they enforce this law? With concealement, they will not know that you have a gun and will still serve you if requested. Please give me your input and there might also be some stuff that i do not know.

Thanks

Shoot small, Miss small
Gig 'Em
Adam
User avatar
Pintail-Peeler
hunter
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:15 pm
Location: Midland Tx


Re: Handgun in Bars?

Postby jaysweet3 » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:33 pm

Being able to carry when booze is in the mix should be looked at about the same as driving with booze. A certian level of consumption should be established, if someone is found to be over that limit and carrying, a punishment should be established.
The road to diabetes will be sweet.
User avatar
jaysweet3
hunter
 
Posts: 8408
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:42 am
Location: N. Illinois

Re: Handgun in Bars?

Postby apexhunter » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:03 pm

Here in NC it is not legal to CC into an establishment where alcohol is consumed on premise. Meaning all bars and most restaurants are off limits to conceal carry. Some are trying to have the law changed to permit carry as long as the CCP holder is not consuming any alcohol, which is a touchy subject to some. Personally I would like the ability to legally CC into a restaurant as long as I was not drinking alcohol. As far as quantity of consumption goes, here there is ZERO tolerance and anybody concealing with ANY alcohol in their system is in violation.
"Shoot low boys...they're riding shetland ponies in search of true grit" Lewis Grizzard
apexhunter
hunter
 
Posts: 2240
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:46 pm
Location: Apex, NC

Re: Handgun in Bars?

Postby Preacher1011 » Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:48 pm

They just passed the law here in Tennessee that you can carry into bars. Like you said, they can't drink. If an establishment doesn't want you to carry they just have to post a sign. Remember that a bar is not necessarily a bar alone. There are restaurants that have bars in them and you can't carry there either. I fully support the new law. About the not knowing about if people are following the law or not, let me answer that question with another question- Do you honestly think that passing or not passing this law will keep the people that are already carrying illegally from taking them into bars?
Locked&Loaded wrote: I got out shot by a 13 yeard old girl.


jrockncash wrote:Is that mask only for ghosts or can fat guys with little weiners use it too?


Image
User avatar
Preacher1011
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 8456
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:14 pm
Location: Knoxville, TN

Re: Handgun in Bars?

Postby ALMODUX » Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:37 pm

Ummm, the 2nd amendment IS your concealed carry permit. It applies whether you are drunk, sober, at home, or Joe Bob's roadhouse...UNTIL you break the law. Now, I realize that this is not what a bunch of laws state, and that these same laws also attempt to restrict where a person has a right under the 2nd. It's a fallacy on top of a fallacy, is all I'm saying. If you are dumb enough to drink until impaired while carrying a firearm, you'll probably shoot your own foot off before someone else's, but it's none of the government's business if you do...IMHO. :biggrin:
Here's a thought: Let the ducks work and decoy.
ALMODUX
hunter
 
Posts: 352
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:14 pm
Location: NE Alabama

Re: Handgun in Bars?

Postby waterfowlhunter » Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:29 am

I have had a CPL since 1990 and I agree with the laws the restrict carrying in Bars. I know and see too many people that after a couple of drinks loose all their common sense. :hi: In MI the law has a % tagged onto it stating that if a certain % of the business is serving booze than leave your gun in the car or at home. this pretty much makes it ok of you to carry in bar resturants that serve food as a primary item. I believe in the 2nd but also know that not everyone should be toating a gun in their pocket. Accidents happen and that guy that thinks he is fine with a few drinks and then wants to pull a gun because someone bumped into him can give us all a bad image.
"A free people ought to be armed" George Washington 1790

‘For those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety.’ —Ben Franklin.”
User avatar
waterfowlhunter
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 3758
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 4:53 am
Location: Linden, MI

Re: Handgun in Bars?

Postby ALMODUX » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:38 am

One's image, opinion of others, or standards of judgement do not override another's 2nd amendment rights. You have the freedom of speech to tell them they are a fool, but not the right to enforce your opinion over them calling you one back...same with the 2nd. Just because something seems sensible, does not mean we need a law about it. :biggrin:
Here's a thought: Let the ducks work and decoy.
ALMODUX
hunter
 
Posts: 352
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:14 pm
Location: NE Alabama

Re: Handgun in Bars?

Postby waterfowlhunter » Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:06 pm

ALMODUX wrote:One's image, opinion of others, or standards of judgement do not override another's 2nd amendment rights. You have the freedom of speech to tell them they are a fool, but not the right to enforce your opinion over them calling you one back...same with the 2nd. Just because something seems sensible, does not mean we need a law about it. :biggrin:



I guess we will just disagree on this :beer:

just like laws that say you can not drive when drunk, would you consider that is a bad law also ?? :bow: In that case the car is the weapon rather than the gun.

I do support the second ammendment but even in the old west drinking establishments required you to check your guns at the door rather than haveing all the shootouts as in the movies, Check the history on that if you wish....

I just tend to err on the side of safety and common sense rather than believe that everyone can make sound judgements at all times, especially when intoxicated.

Cheers,
"A free people ought to be armed" George Washington 1790

‘For those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety.’ —Ben Franklin.”
User avatar
waterfowlhunter
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 3758
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 4:53 am
Location: Linden, MI

Re: Handgun in Bars?

Postby ALMODUX » Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:38 pm

waterfowlhunter wrote:
I guess we will just disagree on this :beer:

just like laws that say you can not drive when drunk, would you consider that is a bad law also ?? :bow: In that case the car is the weapon rather than the gun. TERRIBLE analogy. :hammer: You're comparing your right to bear arms with your privelege to have a driver's license? Let's look at it this way: Is it legal to talk while drunk? Freedom of speech covers that too, right? Well, it covers your RIGHT to BEAR arms, also...intoxicated or not....nothing said here about any right to get drunk and shoot someone....just the fact that MANY have a misconception regarding a right vs a privelege, at least when it comes to the 2nd.

I do support the second ammendment but even in the old west drinking establishments required you to check your guns at the door rather than haveing all the shootouts as in the movies, Check the history on that if you wish.... Another non-sense analogy: Checking guns was up to the establishment, and was within their rights: It's THEIR establishment. They can run it however they want. However, it's not a thing for 'law' to infringe upon a constitutional right.

I just tend to err on the side of safety and common sense rather than believe that everyone can make sound judgements at all times, especially when intoxicated. That's good. However, it's non-sense to think that a differing of opinion gives one a special authority to regulate another's constitutional rights.

Cheers,


It's already against the law to be publicly intoxicated in most places. It's already against the law to discharge a firearm without cause in most cities. It's already against the law to shoot someone, unless in self defense, just about everywhere. :biggrin:
Here's a thought: Let the ducks work and decoy.
ALMODUX
hunter
 
Posts: 352
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:14 pm
Location: NE Alabama

Re: Handgun in Bars?

Postby waterfowlhunter » Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:44 pm

ALMODUX wrote:It's already against the law to be publicly intoxicated in most places. It's already against the law to discharge a firearm without cause in most cities. It's already against the law to shoot someone, unless in self defense, just about everywhere. :biggrin:


AND it is aginst the law to carry a gun into a Bar in a most states, :thumbsup:
"A free people ought to be armed" George Washington 1790

‘For those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety.’ —Ben Franklin.”
User avatar
waterfowlhunter
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 3758
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 4:53 am
Location: Linden, MI

Re: Handgun in Bars?

Postby ALMODUX » Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:46 pm

waterfowlhunter wrote:
ALMODUX wrote:It's already against the law to be publicly intoxicated in most places. It's already against the law to discharge a firearm without cause in most cities. It's already against the law to shoot someone, unless in self defense, just about everywhere. :biggrin:


AND it is aginst the law to carry a gun into a Bar in a most states, :thumbsup:



AND it's patently unconstitutional, but it's not a PC fight to attempt to overthrow a law that seems to make 'sense'. Point is: Those laws are unconstitutional, just like others have been and will continue to be. We ACCEPT regulation of the 2nd amendment out of FEAR that bucking seemingly sensable regulation will placate or put off more stringent regulations. I'm glad you nor I work in a bar in a rough part of town and need a firearm on our persons. You'd be SOL in many states, including mine. The government has a constitutional obligation to make sure you are not a convict or mentally unstable with regards to having 2nd amendment rights. Aside from that, they have no business regulating it, under the constitution. Unlike speech, firearms are inanimate objects and CANNOT in and of themselves commit any crime....whereas, speech itself can be a crime. Hence, regulating a firearm is non-sense to begin with, and we should revert to laws against what one DOES with one, not where one happens to be. :thumbsup:
Here's a thought: Let the ducks work and decoy.
ALMODUX
hunter
 
Posts: 352
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:14 pm
Location: NE Alabama

Re: Handgun in Bars?

Postby waterfowlhunter » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:35 am

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I spend MOST of my time working in detroit and Saginaw, And not in the "good" parts of town.

OK you win, You believe that every drunk in the bar that does not have a record should be allowed to carry their gun with them. Well that is fine with me if that is what you believe. I believe that due to the frequency of fights in bars that it would cause issues and have to agree with sensible laws like this. you keep bringing up the freedom of speech issue, I have never seen some drunks words be capable of blowing someones foot off or killing a bystander in a bar but when that happens I am sure they will regulate those too. :yes:

I am pro rights, have been an NRA member since 1982 and MCRGO for about 10 years now. And I have never seen either claim that we should fight the "no guns in bars" law.
"A free people ought to be armed" George Washington 1790

‘For those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety.’ —Ben Franklin.”
User avatar
waterfowlhunter
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 3758
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 4:53 am
Location: Linden, MI

Re: Handgun in Bars?

Postby ALMODUX » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:50 am

waterfowlhunter wrote:...I spend MOST of my time working in detroit and Saginaw, And not in the "good" parts of town.
Not in bars, though?
OK you win, You believe that every drunk in the bar that does not have a record should be allowed to carry their gun with them. No, the U.S. Constitution says they have a right to bear arms, period. It doesn't distinguish between drunk or sober, or in Church or in a bar. Well that is fine with me if that is what you believe. I believe that due to the frequency of fights in bars that it would cause issues and have to agree with sensible laws like this. While something may be 'sensible' to your thinking, it doesn't give government the authority to regulate it. IT also has nothing to do with what you 'believe' nor what I might believe. It's about the Constitution, and what it states as the right, period. you keep bringing up the freedom of speech issue, I have never seen some drunks words be capable of blowing someones foot off or killing a bystander in a bar but when that happens I am sure they will regulate those too. If a drunk yelled 'bomb!' in a crowded bar and people got trampled to death, then it would be worse than if he'd had a gun. However, we don't remove the offender's tongue BEFORE he shouts the dangerous words. :no: ...

I am pro rights, have been an NRA member since 1982 and MCRGO for about 10 years now. And I have never seen either claim that we should fight the "no guns in bars" law.

Again, it seems as if you intentionally miss the point and want to assume something not stated. You assume that we disagree, then defend your 2nd amendment support? Why is that? IF you support the 2nd amendment, then we don't disagree, and you have no reason to be defensive. However, you have indicated that governmental regulation of your 2nd amendment rights is perfectly acceptable to you regarding private property. It makes sense to you. That being said, here is how it is addressed: You make a personal choice to not carry your firearm into any establishment that sells alcohol, and you can feel you have done the sensible thing. Any establishment (alcohol or not) has the right to ask that guns not be brought on the premises or to set up a system of regulating those that need to. Those of us that don't like that policy or feel we need to carry to and from said establishment can choose to spend our money elsewhere. The government has no constitutional ability to rectify this. :thumbsup:
Here's a thought: Let the ducks work and decoy.
ALMODUX
hunter
 
Posts: 352
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:14 pm
Location: NE Alabama

Re: Handgun in Bars?

Postby waterfowlhunter » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:49 am

:huh: Ok, If you say so.... :bow:
"A free people ought to be armed" George Washington 1790

‘For those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety.’ —Ben Franklin.”
User avatar
waterfowlhunter
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 3758
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 4:53 am
Location: Linden, MI

Re: Handgun in Bars?

Postby Preacher1011 » Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:31 pm

So I take it freedom of speech covers your right to yell "FIRE!!!!!" in a crowded theater, or "BOMB!" in a subway?

waterfowlehunter, I like the way your state does it. Makes more sense than our law. It's ridiculous not to be able to carry into a restaurant with a bar in it, but if a bar is strictly a bar then you should leave it in the car. When you get around friends in a bar, everybody isn't going to say "Hey, I've got a gun. I'm not going to drink." Most of the dingle berries will say "Ah, I'll have a beer." and one turns into 3 or 4. Then someone bumps into them or hits on their girlfriend and he winds up shooting them.
Locked&Loaded wrote: I got out shot by a 13 yeard old girl.


jrockncash wrote:Is that mask only for ghosts or can fat guys with little weiners use it too?


Image
User avatar
Preacher1011
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 8456
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:14 pm
Location: Knoxville, TN

Re: Handgun in Bars?

Postby ALMODUX » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:46 pm

Preacher1011 wrote:So I take it freedom of speech covers your right to yell "FIRE!!!!!" in a crowded theater, or "BOMB!" in a subway?
Please read the entire thread, all the posts, etc. It already covered this.
..... Then someone bumps into them or hits on their girlfriend and he winds up shooting them.

Or, they could just yell 'fire!!!' or 'bomb!!!'....but until they do, they can keep their tongue. :hi:

My entire point is that we (as 2nd amendment supporters) willingly accept pre-emptive laws that cover what some (otherwise legal) gunowner MIGHT or COULD do with a gun, while we watch the news about the thug shooting six people who was out on parole after three prior firearms-related crimes, and crack another beer. :beer:
Here's a thought: Let the ducks work and decoy.
ALMODUX
hunter
 
Posts: 352
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:14 pm
Location: NE Alabama

Re: Handgun in Bars?

Postby Pintail-Peeler » Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:11 am

I will throw this out here also. Even though i do have my CHL and i am 21, I am still in college and go to parties and drink like the best of them. Some of yall might be older than me in here.. would you like a college kid in a bar with you drinking if he has a CHL? I am a college kid and i wouldnt want that lol. I still dont believe that a lot of people my age are trustworthy in a bar with there own handgun.
Gig 'Em
Adam
User avatar
Pintail-Peeler
hunter
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:15 pm
Location: Midland Tx

Re: Handgun in Bars?

Postby waterfowlhunter » Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:55 am

Pintail-Peeler wrote:I will throw this out here also. Even though i do have my CHL and i am 21, I am still in college and go to parties and drink like the best of them. Some of yall might be older than me in here.. would you like a college kid in a bar with you drinking if he has a CHL? I am a college kid and i wouldnt want that lol. I still dont believe that a lot of people my age are trustworthy in a bar with there own handgun.


Good Point, That is why I believe that some regulation is DEFINATELY necessary :beer:

But I do not agree with age to buy a handgun should be 21. I think at 18 you should have enough intellegence and common sense to own a handgun being that you can buy a rifle or shotgun at that age. and carry one on duty in the military. :huh:
"A free people ought to be armed" George Washington 1790

‘For those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety.’ —Ben Franklin.”
User avatar
waterfowlhunter
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 3758
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 4:53 am
Location: Linden, MI

Re: Handgun in Bars?

Postby ALMODUX » Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:55 pm

If you own a bar, you have a right to regulate your patrons. If you are the gov't, you don't have a right to regulate the patrons, only what they do to harm or endanger others....drunk or sober, doesn't matter. Even in the case of drunk driving, you generally have to at least attempt to drive before it's regulated in any way....even though driving is not a 'right'. The 2nd is a RIGHT, but we accept that it can be regulated whenever it makes 'sense' to you? It doesn't matter if it makes sense to 99.9% of the population, it's protected by the constitution, and should not be subject to mob rule/public opinion. What if it made sense to 99.9% of folks that you HAD to have your vote approved before it was cast? Actually, the 2nd amendment is one of two rights that exist without the constitution having to state them: Liberty and the right to protect yourself....are God given rights of all men. :biggrin: Now, you and I likely agree on what SHOULD be sensible with regards to where and how you carry. However, it doesn't mean it'w within the government's perview to mandate anything about it. BTW, my state says that the ONLY place I cannot legally carry with a permit is within 1000' of a publice 'demonstration'. With a CCW permit, we can carry into bars, state buildings, and even schools...so long as there is no 'intent to harm'. :biggrin:
Here's a thought: Let the ducks work and decoy.
ALMODUX
hunter
 
Posts: 352
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:14 pm
Location: NE Alabama

Re: Handgun in Bars?

Postby Preacher1011 » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:07 pm

That's what our state did. We can carry just about anywhere unless a public place doesn't allow it. Most of the places that are strictly bars don't allow you to carry in them, and I can understand that. It only takes one crazy jackass to give everyone a bad name and ruin CCW for everyone.
Locked&Loaded wrote: I got out shot by a 13 yeard old girl.


jrockncash wrote:Is that mask only for ghosts or can fat guys with little weiners use it too?


Image
User avatar
Preacher1011
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 8456
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:14 pm
Location: Knoxville, TN

Re: Handgun in Bars?

Postby fenton_3 » Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:12 pm

I do not see a problem with carring a gun in a bar as long as you do not plan to drink. Once you drink then it becomes a problem.
fenton_3
hunter
 
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:42 pm
Location: St. Louis, Missouri

Re: Handgun in Bars?

Postby Sagebrush » Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:33 pm

If you ever go up to Alaska and walk into a bar and see people wearing coveralls or bibs, with a little string, going down inside......................

Don't mess with them !!!

It is not a watch on the other end.......................


Should it be allowed.............?

Thats why we get to vote.
User avatar
Sagebrush
hunter
 
Posts: 4774
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:28 pm
Location: Reno Nev.

Re: Handgun in Bars?

Postby ALMODUX » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:06 pm

Sagebrush wrote:If you ever go up to Alaska and walk into a bar and see people wearing coveralls or bibs, with a little string, going down inside......................

Don't mess with them !!!

It is not a watch on the other end.......................


Should it be allowed.............?

Thats why we get to vote.



Actually, you can't 'vote' on removing any 2nd amendment, as it's a 'right', not just a law....which is the point I'm trying to make about it all. I'm not disagreeing that toting a gun and consuming quantities of alcohol ain't the smartest thing in the world. However, until you start 'gunning' while drunk, and become subject to a 'GUI', it's just like being a drunk with a car parked outside: you have to crank it up to get a DUI. :biggrin: ...only (by definition), it's in the purvew of the bar owner regarding firearms in his establishment, not the government.
Here's a thought: Let the ducks work and decoy.
ALMODUX
hunter
 
Posts: 352
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:14 pm
Location: NE Alabama

Re: Handgun in Bars?

Postby swampbilly 1980 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:25 am

Wouldn't carrying in a bar eliminate alot of fighting that takes place?... :hammer: :beer:
Swampbilly1980- I got a feeva',..and the only cure is more Mergansers and face paint.
User avatar
swampbilly 1980
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 9079
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Gloucester,Va.

Re: Handgun in Bars?

Postby ajmorell » Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:09 am

swampbilly 1980 wrote:Wouldn't carrying in a bar eliminate alot of fighting that takes place?... :hammer: :beer:


Possibly, but one could argue that it would only make them worse. I know a lot of idiots that would use a gun in that situation if they were carrying one and would probably end up killing someone.
Andy
ajmorell
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 1661
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:40 am
Location: Santa Fe, NM

Next

Return to Rifle and Handgun forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests