Thinking about joining

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Thinking about joining

Postby lameduck » Sat Feb 14, 2009 11:38 pm

Hey,

I am junior in college and I am thinking about joining the service. I have always wanted to join and do my part before I entered the workforce. My brother in law is in the Special Forces and graduated from West Point. Although I feel he might kill me as soon as he finds out his sisters husband is joining I still want to. The only thing holding me back is the uncertainty of your MOS in the contract and the fact that now Obama is President. I hope to join a special forces unit in one of the branches, but I do not know which one offers the best possibilities if I get hurt or do not make it. I know that I am athletic enough but there is always the unknown. Any information on the best path to take or how to join will be appreciated. I just wanted to hear the opinions of the people here before I go and get an ear full from a requiter. There is also a ROTC path at OU and if going through that would help let me know.

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Postby devildog28 » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:25 am

If the only thing holding you back is the uncertainty of MOS choice you need to go into the office first thing monday and sign a contract.

Unless you bomb the asvab (which you won't) you get to pick your MOS and it's included in your contract terms. There ya go case closed :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

When I was signing up I asked my recruiter what jobs I was qualified for....He put the whole binder on the desk and told me to pick any one I wanted out of it.

As much as Obama is a tard I don't think that should factor in to your decision.
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Postby duckslayer82 » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:30 am

GO AIR FORCE!! I've been in 5yrs now and the standard of living is 10 times better...Same pay, and taken better care of....Any of the special forces in any branch is a challenge even for the best in shape...Very high "wash out" rates...

Same with the Air Force....If you talk to a recruiter, take the ASVAB and see what jobs he/she can offer you. If you like one, put it in your contract and its a gaurentee...DONT SIGN UP FOR "OPEN" ANYTHING if he/she trys to tell you to do that...Then the branch has the final say in what you will be doing.

GOOD LUCK!! With college credits you will come into the Air Force with a higher rank than the rest...IF you do ROTC then there is possiblities of being an officer...<---a lot better pay...!

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Postby lameduck » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:06 am

What I meant by uncertainty of MOS is that; from what I understand they can change it on you whenever they want and you cant do crap about it.
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Postby QUACK3XS » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:57 am

devildog28 wrote:As much as Obama is a tard I don't think that should factor in to your decision.


I agree, it shouldn't be a factor. Being in shape is a good thing but, I think you'll find that the mental factor will be your asset or downfall in special forces traing no matter what branch of service. If I was you, I'd have a LOOOooong talk with your wife & make sure she knows whats she's in for. Being a serice member for me was about sacrificing some of my freedoms for the betterment of my country (which includes those I strongly disagree with). Who knows you find that you'll get some really good vocational training out of it, which may go along way if you choose to "Get Out". It did for me. This should be a thought out choice, there's no hurry & plenty of info out there. I was a Navy Seabee, which for me there is no other job or branch...I'm proud of it. As one of my other brothers said "AIR FORCE" really wouln't be a bad choice, they really take care of thier people. GOOD LUCK & "CAN DO" brother
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Postby k9horseluvr » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:13 am

All branches of the service have their own unique qualities. No one is better than the other (GO NAVY!!!), it just all depends on what you want and where you see yourself. You say you want SPECWAR? What type of skills would you like to have along with your SPECWAR training? If you were to wash out of SPECWAR training....what type of career field do you see yourself pursuing? I was a recruiter for the Navy for 4 years and I could tell you alot about what types of programs are available or were when I was still recruiting. Alot of things change on a constant basis but once you have a guaranteed contract you are locked in for any of the branches. I'm no longer a recruiter and back in the fleet. If you would like to know more in depth info about SPECWAR and other opportunities available in the Navy just PM me and I'll give you specifics. If you send your phone # I will give you a call and talk to you more in depth and you can know alot before or if you ever talk to a Navy recruiter.

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Postby LaRedneck » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:30 pm

The military is a great choice for kids these days. And I think you're on the right track at making a good choice not only for yourself but for your future. The military is good for a family to if your wife and kids can handle deployments. With the A.F. you have to chose a job then while in basic you will try out for the various special forces like TACP and Para rescue. I know with the Air Force you can put whatever you want in a contract as long as you ask for it like where you want your first base to be etc etc. If you're up in the air on which branch talk to them all and then decide for yourself which you think is best. We've got all the branch's covered here so ask any question you want. :thumbsup:
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Postby devildog28 » Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:26 pm

lameduck wrote:What I meant by uncertainty of MOS is that; from what I understand they can change it on you whenever they want and you cant do crap about it.


No they can't :thumbsup:
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Postby NHDuckHunter » Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:39 pm

LaRedneck wrote:I know with the Air Force you can put whatever you want in a contract as long as you ask for it like where you want your first base to be etc etc.


Yah, no, they aren't going to do THAT anymore either.
They can guarantee you a "geographical location" but that is usually "east coast" or "midwest" etc. and what it amounts to is the largest base of said service, in that area. IE< in the navy, you ask for "east coast" you got yourself Virginia. They will guarantee you they will send you to a base that most people are fighting to get out of anyway :rofl: . Yes, they can change your MOS too, if something comes up to preclude you from that job. Such as, you wanted to be a bomb diffuser, then they figured out your color blind. But, if you maintain all your qualifications, it won't happen. They are trying to fill specific jobs where they need people, after they have already planned you to fill a job, to go and change it, hurts them as much as it hurts you.
I will tell you though, if you finish your degree, a lot of services are going to want you as an officer anyway depending on what branch and what your degree is in. Sometimes a recruiter will sneak one by the O programs staff, but most times they got caught anyway.
Another thing, a recruiter can't guarantee you a job, the job classifier can. If the recruiter is trying to guarantee you a job, he is either hard up for a contract and rolling the dice, or he is killing the contracts and just trying to make life easier for himself. Either way, he is hurting his/her applicants. The only time I let my recruiters sell jobs is when/if we were going to miss numbers, or it was a ridiculously easy one, like a guy comes in and says I really want to be a cook. "Sure, no problem, I'll make you a cook."
Actually, for you, I would sell you Spec Warfare too, thats another easy one. Every male, non-nuke applicant, gets to try out at boot camp for SEALS.

Where did you recruit K-9? I started off as a recruiter in NH, then became a RINC, and finally a zone sup in MA. Wicked lot of fun if you did the job right. I loved it.
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Postby duckslayer82 » Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:30 pm

They can guarantee you a "geographical location" but that is usually "east coast" or "midwest" etc. and what it amounts to is the largest base of said service, in that area. IE< in the navy, you ask for "east coast" you got yourself Virginia. They will guarantee you they will send you to a base that most people are fighting to get out of anyway . Yes, they can change your MOS too, if something comes up to preclude you from that job. Such as, you wanted to be a bomb diffuser, then they figured out your color blind. But, if you maintain all your qualifications, it won't happen.


Guarantee you a "geographical" location is a bunch of hokis pokis. They put you where they need you. Yes you feel good with "dream sheet" of places you would like to go, but nothing is for sure. My first duty I wanted to stay in the midwest for hunting purposes. So I didnt fill out any overseas on my dreamsheet. I only put midwest bases on it. They ended up giving me Germany!! Granted had a blast but it goes to show you they put you where you are needed not where you want to go....

If you do happen to put in for a specific job in your contract and you get to basic and they say you are no longer qualified they will give you other options for jobs. If you dont like any of them you can get out of the service if you'd like. The contract is the bond between you and them and just like any other contract they cant break it without legal issues.

Not trying to start anything here. I am only speaking for the Air Force. Other branches might be different but this is how the Air Force works.
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Postby devildog28 » Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:18 pm

NHDuckHunter wrote:
LaRedneck wrote:I know with the Air Force you can put whatever you want in a contract as long as you ask for it like where you want your first base to be etc etc.


Yah, no, they aren't going to do THAT anymore either.
They can guarantee you a "geographical location" but that is usually "east coast" or "midwest" etc. and what it amounts to is the largest base of said service, in that area. IE< in the navy, you ask for "east coast" you got yourself Virginia. They will guarantee you they will send you to a base that most people are fighting to get out of anyway :rofl: . Yes, they can change your MOS too, if something comes up to preclude you from that job. Such as, you wanted to be a bomb diffuser, then they figured out your color blind. But, if you maintain all your qualifications, it won't happen. They are trying to fill specific jobs where they need people, after they have already planned you to fill a job, to go and change it, hurts them as much as it hurts you.
I will tell you though, if you finish your degree, a lot of services are going to want you as an officer anyway depending on what branch and what your degree is in. Sometimes a recruiter will sneak one by the O programs staff, but most times they got caught anyway.
Another thing, a recruiter can't guarantee you a job, the job classifier can. If the recruiter is trying to guarantee you a job, he is either hard up for a contract and rolling the dice, or he is killing the contracts and just trying to make life easier for himself. Either way, he is hurting his/her applicants. The only time I let my recruiters sell jobs is when/if we were going to miss numbers, or it was a ridiculously easy one, like a guy comes in and says I really want to be a cook. "Sure, no problem, I'll make you a cook."
Actually, for you, I would sell you Spec Warfare too, thats another easy one. Every male, non-nuke applicant, gets to try out at boot camp for SEALS.

Where did you recruit K-9? I started off as a recruiter in NH, then became a RINC, and finally a zone sup in MA. Wicked lot of fun if you did the job right. I loved it.


I take it you're in the Navy. I believe you when you state that no jobs are gaurenteed in the Navy. I was one of those "I want a contract now!!!" guys when I went to the office. I was probably the easiest enlistment he had all month :rofl: But after he saw my asvab score he still told me I could have anything I wanted. I guess score comes into play with job chances???
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Postby NHDuckHunter » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:59 pm

devildog28 wrote:
I take it you're in the Navy. I believe you when you state that no jobs are gaurenteed in the Navy. I was one of those "I want a contract now!!!" guys when I went to the office. I was probably the easiest enlistment he had all month :rofl: But after he saw my asvab score he still told me I could have anything I wanted. I guess score comes into play with job chances???

I can tell you, without a doubt, the recruiter can not guarantee you a job. Like I said, he can sell you on a job. It is easier if you have a high ASVAB score, but when you saw the recruiter, did you take a physical yet? What if you said all I want to be is a demolitions guy, then come to find out during your physical you are colorblind. The recruiter screwed himself and screwed you. Not every job, but there are quite a few, have physical constraints as well as test constraints, and still others have background constraints (when I joined, I wanted to be a Master at Arms, the assault and battery charge killed that for me).
The other thing, what if there just is no need for the job you want? Say one of the smaller odder jobs, I had a kid come in and tell me he wanted to be an AG (come on Navy guys, anyone know that rate?) I had never even heard of it. I called the Classifier (the guy that CAN guarantee jobs) he said he sees maybe 2 or 3 of them a year, no way... calls me back later on that day and says he has one for me, get the kid there tomorrow. :thumbsup:

The recruiter can definately roll the dice and say "sure kid, I'll make you an "X", but I promise you he didn't hand you a contract that said it." If you got what you wanted at the MEPS, well then you and the recruiter both lucked out.

I didn't BTW say no jobs are guaranteed in the Navy, just that no jobs are guaranteed by the recruiter.

And Duckslayer, the AF can guarantee Geo Location too, its different then a dream sheet. Most recruiters/classifiers never ever talk about it, because if they believe in what they are selling, they don't need to. Its really a crappy program that ends up screwing the kid in the long run. Kind of like the SEAL guarantee program, Sub guarantee program, and a few others.
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Postby bluelund79 » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:41 pm

Go sit down with a recruiter from every branch of the service that you are interested in. Have your questions written down on paper so you don't forget them. Graduate college before you ship for any service. If(When) you graduate before you ship, and you enlist in the Army, you will be a Specialist (E-4), if you go OCS that is different and I don't have that much time to type. I run 3 recruiting stations for the Army, but when I enlisted 11 years ago, i checked them all out and chose the one that fit me best. And yes, the Army does guarantee your training of choice(job) in the contract,as well as length of contract, which depends on the job YOU choose. The only thing we will and can not guarantee is first duty station. Good luck in your search and thank you for your questions.

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Postby k9horseluvr » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:51 pm

NHDuckHunter...I recruited in Nebraska and had a great time. I never sold jobs just the Navy life and experiences you gain. NO recruiter, I REPEAT NO RECRUITER can guarantee you a job. I'm actually headed back to NE to be an Officer Recruiter. On that note, I had quite a few people with degrees that came in and talked about enlisting...I always contacted the Officer Recruiter and 9 out of 10 weren't qualified based on their degree and GPA. If you plan to get a degree to go Officer you had better study hard and have a good GPA (3.2 or higher). If you enlist a degree will give you advanced paygrade in most services. Ask all the questions you have before you sign anything or go to MEPS. Don't ever trust a recruiter that says "Just go to MEPS and see what's available". At that point, alot of money has been spent on you. Ensure you are 100% sure you are ready to join no matter what.
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Postby NHDuckHunter » Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:13 pm

k9horseluvr wrote:NHDuckHunter...I recruited in Nebraska and had a great time. I never sold jobs just the Navy life and experiences you gain. NO recruiter, I REPEAT NO RECRUITER can guarantee you a job. I'm actually headed back to NE to be an Officer Recruiter. On that note, I had quite a few people with degrees that came in and talked about enlisting...I always contacted the Officer Recruiter and 9 out of 10 weren't qualified based on their degree and GPA. If you plan to get a degree to go Officer you had better study hard and have a good GPA (3.2 or higher). If you enlist a degree will give you advanced paygrade in most services. Ask all the questions you have before you sign anything or go to MEPS. Don't ever trust a recruiter that says "Just go to MEPS and see what's available". At that point, alot of money has been spent on you. Ensure you are 100% sure you are ready to join no matter what.
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Nice K9, enjoy the Office recruiting. The 2nd station I took over the old RINC left and went to work for the OPO, he always said he wasn't recruiting anymore, all he was doing was packages... good thing too, that guy couldn't put Popeye on a ship.
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Postby marshstalker83 » Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:53 pm

hey man just make sure whatever you want is in your contract read it before signing. If you go in with an 18x contract thats a special forces contract and you wash out you will be an infantryman. Thats what I do and I get alot of new soldiers that came in on 18x contracts. I would call the Infantry the best job in the army, so its a win win situation.
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Postby dogsbestfriend2 » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:23 pm

If you get a chance go ROTC. They pay for your college and when you come in you are a officer. You can't beat the pay and benifits plus the free education. As for Special Programs, you can get it in your contract as a Officer or Enlisted but, all you really are getting is a chance to try out. If you fail out it all depends on what the service needs and what options they give you from there. As for the ASVAB it is pretty easy. If you are doing good in JC then it should be a breeze. Glad to hear you are thinking about the what if situation.

Just think what if you completed your college degree threw ROTC then went to BUDS and messed up your back and were seperated (God forbid), then you have your degree. Now if you go ahead and drop out of school go to buds and the same happens you are SOL. Just a example of what could happen.

Also like eveyone else said getting you to sign in the recruiters job he is a salesman for the service. The guy at MEPS is who you need to haggle with. Do not sign unless you get what you want. Also by the way you can pretty much get a bonus from almost every service for enlisting if you know to ask.
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Postby lameduck » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:24 am

Thanks for all the information. I am going in this Monday to talk to the people at the ROTC office. I think I am going to head the army route because my brother in law was a ranger and is currently a captain in the SF. I feel like that would be a wealth of information and guidance that I would be an idiot not to take advantage of. Also the army has a lot of possibilities if I get hurt or wash out. One thing I would like to know more about is if I go to OCS will that hinder my chances of being selected for SF, and should I go in as 18x or as an infantrymen and volunteer for SF later?

I really appreciate the help, and thanks for all of your service!
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Postby marshstalker83 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:39 am

I would suggest the 18x route because you then have it in your contract that you will be able to try out. Chances are if you go the infantry route you will go to a unit manning up to deploy and not get the chance to go to sfas until you get back. Hit me up if you have any questions. I'll try to help best I can.
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Postby lameduck » Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:32 pm

This really does not make since to me:

Out of 817 18x recruits only 132 completed and graduated airborne, and of those 132, 106 made it to sfas. It does not go on to say how many people get selected, or end up making it all the way through. Lets say half of the 106 get selected, and then of that half 70% go on to make it all the way through that means only 37 of the 817 make it all the way through. This would mean that 4.5% make it. I have never failed at anything I have done (but I have never tried something this demanding) but it seems like 18x is a ploy to get recruits when they know that virtually no one makes it.
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Postby marshstalker83 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:46 pm

yeah thats pretty much it. They will give the option to anyone who wants it pretty much knowing most will fail out but at that point they are already in the army. I recieved a replacement soldier while in Iraq who told me he came in with an airborne ranger contract. This soldier was 34 years old and about 50 lbs overweight was kicked out of airborne school for falling out on too many runs (females graduate every cycle). Some people arent cut out for that kind of job and the recruiters see them coming from a mile away. Dont let the fall out rate scare you. If you are in shape and you know whats coming you should do fine just stay motivated and don't quit. :thumbsup:
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Postby dogsbestfriend2 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:49 pm

The army does give you all kinds of chances if you wash out or get injured on paper. But, just like most any other service they will give you some options to pick from. Good luck in whatever you choose but, remember get the most out of it.

My buddy Terry taught he was going to be a Ranger for life but, 2 gun shot wounds and one IED later he is has no night vision or depth perseption so he could no long be a Ranger. So they allowed him to become a recruiter guess what 3 years in combat does work well back in the states. So he was discharged and has combat skills, 3 purple hearts and a brozen star (not very good for resume) and thats it. He didn't think about later in life so now he is trying to go back to school.
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Postby USMCDUCKS » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:07 am

Military is a great choice especially with the economy doin what it is doin. i would say finish up your college and become an officer you will be much happier with that decision. you know what branch i recomend....if you want an easy job go AF if you like ****** go Army...****..navy like to work hard and do cool ****... Marines hahahhahaha lol jk for you guys


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Postby NHDuckHunter » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:38 am

USMCDUCKS wrote:Military is a great choice especially with the economy doin what it is doin. i would say finish up your college and become an officer you will be much happier with that decision. you know what branch i recomend....if you want an easy job go AF if you like ***** go Army...****...navy like to work hard and do cool crap... Marines hahahhahaha lol jk for you guys


Thats kind of contradictory isn't it? You want him to finish college AND join the Marines? Isn't that a disqualifier?
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Postby NHDuckHunter » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:39 am

NHDuckHunter wrote:
USMCDUCKS wrote:Military is a great choice especially with the economy doin what it is doin. i would say finish up your college and become an officer you will be much happier with that decision. you know what branch i recomend....if you want an easy job go AF if you like ***** go Army...***...navy like to work hard and do cool crap... Marines hahahhahaha lol jk for you guys


Thats kind of contradictory isn't it? You want him to finish college AND join the Marines? Isn't that a disqualifier?


Hey USMC, shoot me a PM if you need me to tell you what "contradictory" means. :rofl:
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