Ammunition

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Ammunition

Postby apg36820 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:17 am

What is your favorite Ammunition for hunting turkeys. I use an 870 wingmaster with a Kicks Gobblin Thunder full choke and Winchester XX supereme # 5 2 ounce load pretty devestating stuff.
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Re: Ammunition

Postby 2500hdon37s » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:08 pm

Right now I have a box 3in Winchester supreme #4, but when its gone I'm moving to Hevi-metal Magnum blend.

not sure if I'll take my maxus or 870 for turkeys...
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Re: Ammunition

Postby sws002 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:57 am

Winchester SX2, Kicks Gobbling Thunder, Hevi-Shot Magnum Blend = Turkey Genocide
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Re: Ammunition

Postby SPatrick » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:19 am

Hevi Shot 3 1/2 magnum blend with a hevi shot choke, awesome patterns.
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Re: Ammunition

Postby ICDEDTURKES » Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:36 pm

Federal Heavyweight, Nothing commercially loaded penetrates better
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Re: Ammunition

Postby Cujo1 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:56 pm

Remington 3inch 4x6 Duplex 1 7/8 loads pattern best for me and will kill any turkey you need to be shooting at. Turkeys are easy to kill if you hit the head and neck. Patterning is more important than what kind of shot. If it doesn't pattern well it doesn't matter what you shoot. For example: Hevi shot 3 in 5's didn't pattern well out of my gun and I stayed with what has worked for me for over 25 years and a lot of dead turkeys. Pattern density period, with whatever you want to shoot.
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Re: Ammunition

Postby sws002 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:09 pm

ICDEDTURKES wrote:Federal Heavyweight, Nothing commercially loaded penetrates better


First of all, I'm curious as to how you came to that conclusion. Secondly, I'm also wondering why you feel that is relevant? It is pretty widely acknowledged that killing turkeys isn't necessarily a penetration issue, rather a pattern issue. Penetration is really only needed/considered when taking body shots, and if you aren't taking neck/head shots on turkeys you are undoubtedly crippling a lot of turkeys in the process. I'd argue that there isn't a turkey load on the market that isn't capable of sufficiently penetrating a turkeys vitals in the head/neck at 50 yards, just a matter if you can put enough pellets in the region to get the job done. Not saying the Federal Heavyweight is bad stuff, matter of fact I killed quite a few turkeys with it, I just prefer Hevi-Shot for turkeys. I don't mind spending $4-5 bucks a shot when I can have 99% confidence out to and even past 60 yards if needed.
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Re: Ammunition

Postby Jarbo03 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:25 pm

sws002 wrote:
ICDEDTURKES wrote:Federal Heavyweight, Nothing commercially loaded penetrates better


First of all, I'm curious as to how you came to that conclusion. Secondly, I'm also wondering why you feel that is relevant? It is pretty widely acknowledged that killing turkeys isn't necessarily a penetration issue, rather a pattern issue. Penetration is really only needed/considered when taking body shots, and if you aren't taking neck/head shots on turkeys you are undoubtedly crippling a lot of turkeys in the process. I'd argue that there isn't a turkey load on the market that isn't capable of sufficiently penetrating a turkeys vitals in the head/neck at 50 yards, just a matter if you can put enough pellets in the region to get the job done. Not saying the Federal Heavyweight is bad stuff, matter of fact I killed quite a few turkeys with it, I just prefer Hevi-Shot for turkeys. I don't mind spending $4-5 bucks a shot when I can have 99% confidence out to and even past 60 yards if needed.

Federal Heavyweight has the highest density of any factory loads, 15g/cc, Hevi-13 is 13g/cc, standard hevi is 12g/cc. Higher density pellets hold pattern better at longer ranges, also the higher density allows you to shoot smaller pellets to increase pattern density without losing down range energy. With Fed Hevy I would shoot nothing bigger than a #7. Just received 3 lbs of these pellets to start loading up, time to hit the pattern board.
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Re: Ammunition

Postby sws002 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:38 pm

Jarbo03 wrote:Federal Heavyweight has the highest density of any factory loads, 15g/cc, Hevi-13 is 13g/cc, standard hevi is 12g/cc. Higher density pellets hold pattern better at longer ranges, also the higher density allows you to shoot smaller pellets to increase pattern density without losing down range energy. With Fed Hevy I would shoot nothing bigger than a #7. Just received 3 lbs of these pellets to start loading up, time to hit the pattern board.


Higher density has nothing to do with pattern density at longer ranges, or shorter ranges for that matter. If I'm not mistaken, the heavyweight pellets, while dense, are very hard, whereas hevi-shot is relatively soft. This can have a huge effect on the ability of a pellet to pattern well, as over constricting a hard pellet (as is very evident with steel shot) can have very negative effects to your pattern. I am aware of the ability to shoot smaller pellets because of higher densities, which is why I shoot Magnum Blend, as it is a blend of 5's, 6's and 7's. As I mentioned before, I'd doubt that a turkey (all other things being equal) would notice the difference between a Hevi-13 or Heavyweight pellet hitting them at 60 yards, which is why I contend that you are better off searching for whatever patterns best out of your gun. If you want to shoot high end stuff (Heavyweight, Hevi-13, Wingmaster, etc.), pick up a box of each and a couple different chokes, shoot one of each out of every choke, it'll cost you a little up front, but after you have a brand picked out you can pick up a couple boxes here and there and you will eventually have a good supply of something that you know works.
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Re: Ammunition

Postby Jarbo03 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:07 am

Hevi-shot pellets are hard also. They do make some softer pellets using tungsten powder bonded with a polymer, but the density is around 10-11. I prefer hard pellets for good patterns, the more polished and rounder the pellet, the better. Over constriction can be an issue, but as in steel, it becomes a bigger issue with larger pellets, that is why you have to pattern your gun. The past couple years I have shot TSS #7 through a .660 Trulock with amazing patterns. As far as the original statement:

"ICDEDTURKES wrote:Federal Heavyweight, Nothing commercially loaded penetrates better", there is no doubt that as far as penetration is concerned the higher density pellets at same speeds will penetrate better. I agree about the hevi-13, I would rather have them, they give me better patterns, that is why I bought the 15g/cc pellets that are used in the Feds for reloading, I want to get better patterns than what they offer in my guns.
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Re: Ammunition

Postby Cujo1 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:55 am

Just to prove a point. I went outside to do a quick pattern with a Stoeger 2000 and an undertaker choke last night. Stapled a piece of paper to a post backed off 40 yds and shot a remington 5 and then did it again with a remington duplex. (This is the combo that work best out of my turkey gun) I barely had any pellets on the paper! I will have to set up the big pattern paper and start close and find out where these pellets are going. My turkey gun has a killing pattern to 65 yards with this combo. This gun would do good to kil a turkey at 30 yards by this initial test. It is time to see if this gun shoots straight, and then try some different ammo and chokes. But definitely not turkey ready!!!
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Re: Ammunition

Postby ICDEDTURKES » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:13 am

Jarbo03 wrote:
sws002 wrote:
ICDEDTURKES wrote:Federal Heavyweight, Nothing commercially loaded penetrates better


First of all, I'm curious as to how you came to that conclusion. Secondly, I'm also wondering why you feel that is relevant? It is pretty widely acknowledged that killing turkeys isn't necessarily a penetration issue, rather a pattern issue. Penetration is really only needed/considered when taking body shots, and if you aren't taking neck/head shots on turkeys you are undoubtedly crippling a lot of turkeys in the process. I'd argue that there isn't a turkey load on the market that isn't capable of sufficiently penetrating a turkeys vitals in the head/neck at 50 yards, just a matter if you can put enough pellets in the region to get the job done. Not saying the Federal Heavyweight is bad stuff, matter of fact I killed quite a few turkeys with it, I just prefer Hevi-Shot for turkeys. I don't mind spending $4-5 bucks a shot when I can have 99% confidence out to and even past 60 yards if needed.

Federal Heavyweight has the highest density of any factory loads, 15g/cc, Hevi-13 is 13g/cc, standard hevi is 12g/cc. Higher density pellets hold pattern better at longer ranges, also the higher density allows you to shoot smaller pellets to increase pattern density without losing down range energy. With Fed Hevy I would shoot nothing bigger than a #7. Just received 3 lbs of these pellets to start loading up, time to hit the pattern board.


Thank you Jarbo.. I shoot a 20 gauge whereas the flitecontrol wad is not as stiff as it is in the 12 gauge thus allowing it to respond to choking better. I shot H 13 7s in the spring of 2010 which are actually only 12 g/cc, Environmetal switched back to 12 g/cc shot.. Spring of 2011, I switched to the Federal HW 7s and the patterns are equal to the H 13 7s. After traveling the west both years for two weeks and loaning my gun to friends and family both years, doing red neck autopsies on piles of birds the penetration difference between the two is very evident.. Ever since Enivronmetal changed the 20 gauge load in 07, the 6s performance dropped off considerably and were very close to not meeting my standards of ethical pattern density.. This is documented all over the internet and why so many hevi shot shooters in the 20 g are forced to shoot 7s. With the density of Hevi slightly greater than lead, and the numerous fly speck sized pellets commonly found in Hevi shot, at 40 yards my predetermined max range these shells weigh on my confidence of penetration. Given equal patterns and basically equal cost, I will shoot the best penetrating load available.

As for the denser pellets holding at long range its true.. It all comes down to the golf ball vs ping pong ball.. Look at steel vs lead, lead vs hevishot..Hevi shot is only 6% denser than lead, Heavyweight is 34.5 % denser than lead and 26.7% denser than Hevi. Look at some of the reloading forums out there and look what guys are doing with ultra dense TSS 18 g.cc shot at 60 and 70 yards. There patterns are denser than what a really good hevi shot pattern is at 40-50..

In the 12 the patterning nod goes to Hevi.. I have seen very few patterns with HW 7s that compare to Hevi 7s, but for penetration it would be better to compare HW 7s patterns to Hevi 6s or most likely 5s considering the velocity of the Feds. The super stiff Flight control wad and meager payload in the HWs is what holds it back on the patterning board.. If Federal ever decides to rid itself of this wad, load up true 2.25 and 2.0z loads in a 7.5, not 7, they will have Environmetal on their knees.

With that being said, if I ever did switch back to a 12 I would go to the current Fed 7s and lower my expectations on pattern density to the 160-170 range.. Once I saw firsthand the ability of the best pellet commercially available it would be hard to go back to an inferior pellet.
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Re: Ammunition

Postby ICDEDTURKES » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:47 am

sws002 wrote: This can have a huge effect on the ability of a pellet to pattern well, as over constricting a hard pellet (as is very evident with steel shot) can have very negative effects to your pattern.

This may be true in theory but not necessarily true on paper.. Hevi is very hard, the softest of the HTL loads is the Win XTD range.. When WIN XTD first came out they even went on to claim it was good for all shotgun barrels and shortly after pulled the claim..

When hevi shot debuted, before H 13 and even before Old white, they had a 2 3/4 inch 1 5/8 roll crimped load.. Its debut at the still target championship resulted in a win.. After winning EM began to grow and recommended a 670 ish choke with these new loadings.. This recommendation was not based on patterning ability, but instead was based on the early fears of barrel and choke damage. What wasn't known was that the shooter (Randy Lewis) won the first championship for them and was shooting a 640 constriction choke.. At the debut of H 13 and the old white load they were still recommending the 670 type chokes, yet the best patterns and Still Target championships were being won with chokes in the 640-650 range. Where am I going with this? The shot, Gualandi wad and buffer in the older loads preferred a tighter constriction.. The newer bronze hevi loads prefer a slightly more open choke (660-670) even with similar hardness of the shot.. Thus the wad, buffer and powder are dictating the choke more so than the shot alone.

Last year I ran the Fed HWs in the 20 through a range of chokes and manufactures ranging from 575 to 550.. In each of the three guns I found the more I constricted the load, the better the patterns got.. Each gun wears a choke with a 550 constriction with a good solid core and nice even 5 inch circle surrounding.. With that being said many shooters have great luck in the 570 range, but an equal portion of shooters are having results with ultra tight chokes in the 20..

The very best patterns in the 12 with the Fed HW 7s with the dreaded wad has come from ultra tight constriction 650.. I think this is where alot of folks have gone wrong with this load in a 12, they are utilizing the manufacture recommendation and shooting very open chokes with these loads and never really checking what the opposite side of the spectrum has to offer..

With all this being said the tighter constrictions may be working because of how they interact with the wad, but thats another thread.
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Re: Ammunition

Postby duckinismyluckin » Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:19 am

hey icedturkes im going to hand me down my remington light 20 gauge 1100 its only a 2/3/4 with those fedral shells and a good choke how far are they good for. And also what choke would you recommend thanx. They do make turkey fed heavyweights in 2/3/4 20 i saw them on website but finding them for sale is different game.
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Re: Ammunition

Postby MaineMallards9 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:24 am

Hevi-Shot 13 in #5 or #6s is my favorite right now. Puts up awesome patterns. It is a little on the expensive side. But I still couldn't buy anything else.
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Re: Ammunition

Postby duckinismyluckin » Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:33 pm

Naw dude fed heavyweight is a better weighted shot. But hevi 13 is better laid out shot load for 12. But feds are better for 20.
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Re: Ammunition

Postby Super Dave 32 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:48 pm

I personally like the Federal with Flite-Control wad. I patterned it with my SBE2 and Carlson turkey non-ported choke and found that it provided the most pellets in a 10" diameter circle at 30 yds. It put about 20% more in the pie pan than HeviShot and Remington and twice more than Kent (which was horrible in pattern)

I was 9 for 9 with one shot kills last spring in Okla, Neb and S Dakota.

As far as shooting a turkey at 60 plus yards, there's NO WAY that I'm taking that shot regardless of what I'm shooting. IMHO, anything past 40 is borderline. I'd much rather let ol' Tom walk and chase him later than wound him to die later and be eaten by coyotes But that's just me.

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Re: Ammunition

Postby duckinismyluckin » Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:04 pm

Well u use the right choke and shotshell i am telling you there are 60 yard trukey guns out there. And they will kill him clean every time.
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Re: Ammunition

Postby alloutwar13 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:11 pm

I use a Maxus with a Browning/Briley Full Strut tube shooting Hevi-Shot Magnum Blends 3.5 inch with the 5,6,7 blend.
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Re: Ammunition

Postby duckinismyluckin » Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:04 am

Nice set-up all out.
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Re: Ammunition

Postby ICDEDTURKES » Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:18 am

duckinismyluckin wrote:hey icedturkes im going to hand me down my remington light 20 gauge 1100 its only a 2/3/4 with those fedral shells and a good choke how far are they good for. And also what choke would you recommend thanx. They do make turkey fed heavyweights in 2/3/4 20 i saw them on website but finding them for sale is different game.

Those shells drop the payload down 1 1/8 and should contain 246 pellets, its a pretty big drop down from the 3 inch load containing 327 pellets.. Back when H 13 was actually 13 g/cc in the 3 inch 6 load we were getting 140s and that load contained 239 pellets.. With optimum choking you should be able to get a bonafide 40 yard killer out of it.. I have not personally played with the 2 3/4 inch load but would assume much of what has been learned with the 3 inch will translate due to the flight control wad.

IME a large number of guns like an open constriction choke 570 ish with no ports or no wad catchers.. An equal number of folks are having great luck choking the heck out of the flight control wad like I do with the Tru Glo Strut Stopper Xtreme..

With that being said there is no clear cut answer, but if it were me personally I would start with a 10 dollar Rem Super Full 570 from Midwest Gun Works and a 35 dollar Tru Glo Strut Stopper Xtreme.. These are two affordable chokes and are the most common producers with the Flight Control Wad in the 20.. Hopefully you find something at one of these extremes that works for you..

I would be pleased with that load and a pattern in the 120 range in a 10 inch circle at 40 yards.. ON a sidenote I have found the Feds like the barrel cleaned or bore snaked between each shot.
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Re: Ammunition

Postby duckinismyluckin » Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:40 pm

Thanx icedturkes
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Re: Ammunition

Postby whack'n'stack44 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:10 pm

3 in #6 winchester supreme....deadly!!!!! done killed 4 with it this year!
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Re: Ammunition

Postby phutch30 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:13 am

My prefered ammo is Rem wingmaster HD 3.5" 1 3/4 oz #6.(the waterfowl payload) It patterns great out of my SBE with the factory choke. The waterfowl load seems to work better than the turkey version. Go figure. I like high velocity turkey loads and in this round the waterfowl load is steppig out at 1300fps vs 1225 for the turkey load. Not a big deal at 20 or 30 but if I misjudge the range I like as much extra velocity/energy on target as I can get.

My 870 with a kicks gobbling thunder lalways patterned great with 3" copper plated #5 federals
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