Best Home Defense Shotgun Ammo?

A forum to discuss home defense and personal defense to keep out crime.

Moderators: La. Hunter, badandy970, Montanafowler

Re: Best Home Defense Shotgun Ammo?

Postby POKER1 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:13 pm

carlschmarl2 wrote:
devildog28 wrote:There's always one who parrots the birdshot theory. :no:

I have Hornady TAP 00 in my shotgun. I think it's downloaded a little bit.


I love the TAP. It's loaded in mine too.

Birdshot is NOT a self defense round. It does NOT pepetrate clothing/skin/vitals. If you're worried about "collateral damage" then get an AR in .223.


"It does not penetrate clothing, skin and vitals"? You my friend have obviously never seen the outcome of someone shot with a load of birdshot. Stick with what you know. Its not my choice for SG defense but it will definately penetrate the human body to the vitals. I like a handgun for close work in tight places.
User avatar
POKER1
hunter
 
Posts: 341
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:16 pm


Re: Best Home Defense Shotgun Ammo?

Postby NapalmCheese » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:43 pm

Montanafowler wrote:
maxham51 wrote:#1 buckshot is usually considered the Ideal load for personal defense at a range of less then 30 meters. because of the greater surface area it will do considerable more damage then 00 buck.


#1 buck is smaller than 00, so it has less surface area.


There are more pellets in a load of #1 buck than a load of 00 buck, as such, the total additive frontal area is larger in the load of #1 buck.

My apartment is smallish, engagements would happen pretty up close and personal. Until recently I had my shotgun loaded with any old 00 buck, I'm switching to 4 buck to limit over penetration issues. 162 pellets (27 pellets per round * 6 rounds) of 4 buck won't make anyone happy.
NapalmCheese
hunter
 
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:12 pm
Location: San Jose

Re: Best Home Defense Shotgun Ammo?

Postby dsm16428 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:42 pm

carlschmarl2 wrote:
devildog28 wrote:There's always one who parrots the birdshot theory. :no:

I have Hornady TAP 00 in my shotgun. I think it's downloaded a little bit.


I love the TAP. It's loaded in mine too.

Birdshot is NOT a self defense round. It does NOT pepetrate clothing/skin/vitals. If you're worried about "collateral damage" then get an AR in .223.



Ever been shot with or seen someone that's been shot with say a 1300 fps load of #4 lead? I have on BOTH occasions. My nephew was shooting at a fall turkey and didn't realize that I was in the line of fire due to the topography. I got hit at about 45 yards with what I know were at least 4 pellets. Three hit either buttons or the zipper of my mid weight camoe overalls and were stopped but stung like I was shot with a paintball marker at close range. The 4th one? It is sitting about 1" from the anterior aspect of my medial femur bone. Now you tell me those little pellets can't penetrate?! You have no idea what you're talking about. Inside of about 35 feet, about the avg distance between walls in large rooms or down hall ways and a long shot inside a home to begin with, a 1 1/4 ounce high brass load of #4 or #2 lead is going to RUIN an intruder, and provide a much higher hit probability out of a cyl. bore shotgun than 00 buck ever will. Further an AR in .223 is definetly going to over penetrate should you: one, choose the wrong ammo that can fully penetrate a body or two, miss the intruder all together as is easy to do under high stress situations with single projectile weapons. Having seen the aftermath of fine shot wounds from ranges a point blank to about 45+ yards, I can tell you that #4 or larger fine shot is MORE THAN CAPABLE OF BEING LETHAL when used inside of a home. On another thread, a member said a deer is tougher than a human and you couldn't kill a deer with bird shot. Wana bet? That member was wrong and so are you. Being a nurse, a combat vet and having dressed and skinned hundreds of medium game animals, that would easilly be a "tough" as a human and amazingly tougher on most occasions, I can say that Bird shot at close range will end you and penetrate your heart, lungs and liver with ease at in-the-home ranges. If you have never seen it, used it, or been shot by it, hold your tongues and LISTEN to those of us that have real worl experience???
Big Al's "Take-Em" Style Silhoutte Decoy Pro-Staff.
N.O. Outdoors Guide Service, President and CEO. "You try harder so we don't have to."
Don't do anything you wouldn't want to admit to the paramedics after.
dsm16428
hunter
 
Posts: 767
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 7:15 am

Re: Best Home Defense Shotgun Ammo?

Postby Dingbatter 2 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:13 pm

Interesting. I have shot 3 inch pine trees in half with a load of No 4's HB at 10 feet with a modified choke. I also have a good friend that is a nurse and she has seen it all. She has seen what "small" shot has done to folks at close range. Most of the time there is nothing much they can do, since the impact area is basically hamburger. Buckshot can be picked out and removed, holes stitched up, and so forth. Not much you can do with a pound of hamburger. I have a full choke in my HD shotgun. At close range, my 4's will be very nasty. People ask me why a full choke, and when I ask them what they have, generally it's an SKS or AR (rifle). My "rifle" shoots a 3" shell, sideways! :wink:
As a side note, my friend also says that when someone is coming in with a GS wound from a pistol, when they find out it's a .45 they relax and just put the morgue downstairs on standby. :lol3:
"When I get to heaven, tie me to a tree
For I'll begin to roam and soon you'll know where I will be..."
Dingbatter 2
hunter
 
Posts: 1159
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:44 pm

Re: Best Home Defense Shotgun Ammo?

Postby foldinducks » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:12 pm

. Buckshot can be picked out and removed, holes stitched up, and so forth. :lol: :lol:
i dont know if you are on the same planet as me , but if you take a 3" load of oo buck in the torso, the only place theyre going to be "picked out" from is the morgue.there are 16 .32 caliber pellets in my oo buck load. there is zero chance of ahuman being taking 16 .32 caliber pellets. you couldnt pick fast enough to save a human life.theres no surgeon good enough to stop the bleeding fast enough. a shotgun blast at close range being #9 bird shot, or 00 buck is the for sure end of a human life.i like 00 buck for the chance of a longer shot in case of a "cripple" gettin back out the door.here in PA we cant shoot em on the lawn ....yet.
it didnt smell like that when i ate it
foldinducks
hunter
 
Posts: 217
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:05 pm
Location: erie pennsylvania

Re: Best Home Defense Shotgun Ammo?

Postby dsm16428 » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:14 pm

foldinducks wrote:. Buckshot can be picked out and removed, holes stitched up, and so forth. :lol: :lol:
i dont know if you are on the same planet as me , but if you take a 3" load of oo buck in the torso, the only place theyre going to be "picked out" from is the morgue.there are 16 .32 caliber pellets in my oo buck load. there is zero chance of ahuman being taking 16 .32 caliber pellets. you couldnt pick fast enough to save a human life.theres no surgeon good enough to stop the bleeding fast enough. a shotgun blast at close range being #9 bird shot, or 00 buck is the for sure end of a human life.i like 00 buck for the chance of a longer shot in case of a "cripple" gettin back out the door.here in PA we cant shoot em on the lawn ....yet.


You MUST live on the lower west side of Erie like me??!! :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :lol: :lol: :lol: :beer:
Big Al's "Take-Em" Style Silhoutte Decoy Pro-Staff.
N.O. Outdoors Guide Service, President and CEO. "You try harder so we don't have to."
Don't do anything you wouldn't want to admit to the paramedics after.
dsm16428
hunter
 
Posts: 767
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 7:15 am

Re: Best Home Defense Shotgun Ammo?

Postby 2500hdon37s » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:34 am

LunaticFringeInc wrote:http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

Check this link out and some others that can also be found on their home page. Many of them are pretty interesting to read.

while most of what that guy says is true and I think his stance on buckshot and birdshot is correct, this statement makes me think hes kind of an idiot- "Frankly, I was surprised that the shotgun did not penetrate more than it did. I had been led to believe that they penetrated more than a .223 rifle or a 9mm or .45 ACP. Such was not the case"

if he really thought that a 12ga shotgun was going to penetrate more than a .223/5.56mm hes got some learning to do/ should get some new sources for info. hell a .233 is shooting 2-2.5 times faster than 00 buck as well....
NRA and DU member, are you? if not you should be!

rabbitdundied wrote: I use my mojos in places I don't want birds to land.
User avatar
2500hdon37s
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 3222
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:32 pm
Location: sittin high in the Missouri skies!

Re: Best Home Defense Shotgun Ammo?

Postby WIDrakeKiller » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:47 am

I would have to imagine that not one person here is gonna get up after some #4's hit em. And honestly your gonna want to do a make sure shot if its just one guy. I know I would. Watch Zombie Land and you'll learn a lot about this. It would be nice to have a pistol in case u need to shoot in a situation where you can't have a huge pattern. Do u guys have a flashlight or would u go with no light or turn on lights in your house if someone was armed in your house and trying to hurt u?
WIDrakeKiller
hunter
 
Posts: 433
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:34 pm

Re: Best Home Defense Shotgun Ammo?

Postby Greentimber70 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:14 pm

Number 1 bucks seems to take top honors according to ballistic research. While it is smaller in diameter to 00 you have,
I believe, 16 pellets in a 2.75" shell vs 9 or sometimes 12 (if you can find em) in a 2.75" 00 load. 1 buck is the smallest size shot that can achieve consistent minimal penetration depths that are required to be considered an affective defensive and or offensive load. The higher pellet count creates additional wound channels through vital areas. Hence the improved lethality. It can be hard to find in stores though while 00 is not. However, as a bunch of others have noted already, you have to take your surroundings into account when selecting a load. Above loads are 12 gauge of course.

Somebody mention Peter Hathaway Capstic. Great reading! You were correct. I believe Capstick loaded up both barrels of his Beretta with #1 buck when pursueing wounded leopard in heavy bush. Nuff said! :beer:
Greentimber70
hunter
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:56 pm

Re: Best Home Defense Shotgun Ammo?

Postby dsm16428 » Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:06 pm

A human wearing street clothes...whacked out on drugs or not is not a charging leopard.
Big Al's "Take-Em" Style Silhoutte Decoy Pro-Staff.
N.O. Outdoors Guide Service, President and CEO. "You try harder so we don't have to."
Don't do anything you wouldn't want to admit to the paramedics after.
dsm16428
hunter
 
Posts: 767
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 7:15 am

Re: Best Home Defense Shotgun Ammo?

Postby Greentimber70 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:39 pm

True.
I was merely addressing the original question put forth as to what constitues an effective defense load for a shotgun. According to research conducted by reliable sources #1 Buck is very good in this application. I would never use the word best because there are too many variables, and this could start an arguement :lol3: ! Many others responded to the question with their own ideas on what makes an effective defense load and have made very good points.
The leopard comment was meant to be analogous. Capstick, being experienced in facing dangerous situations trusted this particular load in more than a couple extraordinarily dangerous, life threatning situations.
Greentimber70
hunter
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:56 pm

Re: Best Home Defense Shotgun Ammo?

Postby dsm16428 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:08 am

No, I got that. I actually use #4 buck in my 20 gauge. 20 pellets+close range=lots of trauma. Inside of 35 feet it really doesn't matter what an intruder gets shot with. Buck, slug, fine shot, or a combo of all...at 10 yards...or less...it just won't matter. What DOES matter to some folks is what that load does once its past the target.
Big Al's "Take-Em" Style Silhoutte Decoy Pro-Staff.
N.O. Outdoors Guide Service, President and CEO. "You try harder so we don't have to."
Don't do anything you wouldn't want to admit to the paramedics after.
dsm16428
hunter
 
Posts: 767
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 7:15 am

Re: Best Home Defense Shotgun Ammo?

Postby Greentimber70 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:38 am

I agree. You without a doubt have to consider the over penetration/missed the target scenario when selecting a hd load because you are responsible for whatever you hit, friend or foe. That's what I was getting at in my original response to the question when I wrote: "However, as a bunch of others have noted already, you have to take your surroundings into account when selecting a load."

I'm with you on the close range situation. If buckshot isn't a safe option I would not feel unsecure using small shot. A shotgun at the ranges we are discussing is about as effective of an hd tool as you can get, no matter what the loading.
Greentimber70
hunter
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:56 pm

Previous

Return to Home and Personal Defense Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest