THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

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THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby NJDUCKER86 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:32 pm

Well just was looking over this new "fully ford diesel" (yes typical ford thought they would reinvent the wheel building a new diesel) and i just came upon some interesting things. This motor has 2 seperate cooling systems, one is a conventional high temperature used for cooling the engine, the second is a lower temperature one that is used for cooling the charge air cooler, trans cooler, egr cooler, each of these has 2 thermostats, specially designed cooling hoses with quick disconnects, its own belt driven water pump and own radiator one of which is a two stage radiator. it also uses the valve covers as the intake as the exhaust comes out of the middle of the engine to spool the turbo directly.... now these are just some the of the things i noticed... basically just think of when these things fail and HOW MUCH it will cost you!!!

My biggest question is why in the hell does ford always make things difficult and reinvent the wheel and a pain in the *** to work on. They should have done like GM and Dodge and relized that someone else out there already makes a better and more relilable diesel. (Dodge-cummins, GM-duramax, both tough and powerful engines) and just contracted it out! i still cant figure out why they havent called up CAT got a CAT/ SuperDuty package in the works,

i know you ford fans will chime in and say how hard you get about your ford being all ford blah blah blah, but the gm guys and dodge will be laughin when your hood is up on the side of the road. oh and yea this new motor is built in mexico (cummins and duramax in us)
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Re: THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby shoot-n-goose » Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:42 pm

I think that auto makers REALLY need to talk with everyday mechanics about what they would change, but then again that would make too much sense.

I think with Ford its more about listing all these new "features" that GM and Dodge both don't have. I think they see it as one up-ing
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Re: THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby ajmorell » Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:08 am

I think Ford is hesitant to do any more diesel outsourcing due to the amount of issues they had with Navistar/International. Only time will tell if the new diesel designed in house is any better or not. FWIW I wouldn't buy a diesel from any of the big 3 right now until they get past this urea thing.
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Re: THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby 2500hdon37s » Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:25 pm

its all so when ford's motor, truck, and parts fail you have to bring it in to them for service! i will never own a ford diesel and probaly never own a ford truck in general.
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Re: THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby 2500hdon37s » Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:29 pm

shoot-n-goose wrote:I think that auto makers REALLY need to talk with everyday mechanics about what they would change, but then again that would make too much sense.


exactly, the mechanics have to watch a video on the new cars every 6-12 monthes to keep them up to date on how hard they are making them to work on!
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Re: THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby lameduck » Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:47 am

I just got one of the 2011 6.7's and I love it. Not too worried about how expensive it is to fix it because I will sell when the warranty is up.

I drove the Dodge, Ford, and GM before I picked which one I was going to get. This year I feel like Ford came out with the best product, in 4-5 years when it's time for a new truck it might be a different story.

Chevy came in at a close second but the price tag was 7k more than a comparable Ford. I just could not justify buying into government motors this year.

Dodge needs to get the body/frame up to speed with the motor. How can you have the Cummings and only be able to tow 18k lbs when Ford/Chevy are 22-23k lbs? I had my mind set on a Dodge 3500 manual because I tow heavy trailers often for my business but one of the gooseneck/excavator combos we have weigh in at 21k and I could not pull it with the dodge. They need to step it up.
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Re: THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby 1ynggun » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:24 pm

i just sold my 07 f250 6.0L before anything started to blow. Got an f150 and it rides like a caddy. Ill get another diesel one day, but it wont be ford, they change toooooooo often. My next diesel will be the duramax with allison trans :thumbsup:
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Re: THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby 2500hdon37s » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:11 am

1ynggun wrote:i just sold my 07 f250 6.0L before anything started to blow. Got an f150 and it rides like a caddy. Ill get another diesel one day, but it wont be ford, they change toooooooo often. My next diesel will be the duramax with allison trans :thumbsup:

good choice! my brother just got an 08 dmax and loves it! and stock it will burn 33s into 2nd gear! its fast for a stock truck and pulls a trailer like its nouthing! its got a great trailer brake controller for coming factory too!
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Re: THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby GoldHunter » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:25 pm

ajmorell wrote:I think Ford is hesitant to do any more diesel outsourcing due to the amount of issues they had with Navistar/International. Only time will tell if the new diesel designed in house is any better or not. FWIW I wouldn't buy a diesel from any of the big 3 right now until they get past this urea thing.


Dodge ins't doing the Urea system yet...it has the DPF, which may be worse... :lol3: . Luckily I haven't had any major issues with the DPF system in over a year, they finally got figured out...
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Re: THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby ajmorell » Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:58 pm

All 3 have DPF's and IIRC both Ford and Chevy have the urea system. As far as I'm concerned both suck, but they are necessary evils until emissions technology catches up.
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Re: THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby btduckcall » Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:39 pm

it is because of the new emission (sp) laws. set by the feds . this will be like when cat convertors, came out. we are having a hell of time getting use to them in our big trucks (18 wheelers) some we have to add addivitives and some regen by them selves. it cuts back on carbon build up, by letting more nitrogen out, and burning it off,crbon that is , suppose to be more green.
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Re: THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby ajmorell » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:04 pm

btduckcall wrote:it is because of the new emission (sp) laws. set by the feds . this will be like when cat convertors, came out. we are having a hell of time getting use to them in our big trucks (18 wheelers) some we have to add addivitives and some regen by them selves. it cuts back on carbon build up, by letting more nitrogen out, and burning it off,crbon that is , suppose to be more green.


Yeah it is unfortunate but like I said it is a necessary evil. In the near future <5 years I forsee some considerable technology coming out that may eliminate the need for urea systems.....stuff that I might have contributed to :biggrin:
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Re: THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby 2500hdon37s » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:55 pm

just got word that my friends mom is getting one, ill let you know how much of a POS it is! :thumbsup:
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Re: THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby Have Gun Will Travel » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:40 am

They are all man made and therefore POS's. Ford has problems....chevy has an IFS that falls apart in every heavy duty truck ive seen. And show me a new vehicle that isnt almost imposssible to work on. Give me a break. Wahhhh Wahhh my job isnt easy...

I will say that i have a '02 with a 7.3. I would buy the chevy but only if they loose that crappy front end.
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Re: THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby Torquewrench » Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:34 pm

because cat gave up trying to meet epa and pulled back to off highway to regroup.and if it wasn't for epa we would still be hearing how good the 7.3 is.
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Re: THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby 2500hdon37s » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:19 am

Have Gun Will Travel wrote:They are all man made and therefore POS's. Ford has problems....chevy has an IFS that falls apart in every heavy duty truck ive seen. And show me a new vehicle that isnt almost imposssible to work on. Give me a break. Wahhhh Wahhh my job isnt easy...

I will say that i have a '02 with a 7.3. I would buy the chevy but only if they loose that crappy front end.

no, it doesnt fall apart at all.
my dad has right at 260,000 miles on his duramax and the front end has never been touched, it still has the orignal ball joints, and has never been realigned and it still runs straight as an arrow down the road. the only reason my front is has been messes with is because i knocked it out of alingment mudding and 37 inch tires are not easy on the ifs, and had the ball joints replaced one time, and mine has 177,000 miles on it.

as well as the other 6 other HD chevys in my family have never had problems with the ifs, but yes i do agree they should have solid axles, so my brother on his last duramax had a D60 for the front axle.
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Re: THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby ajmorell » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:22 am

Torquewrench wrote:because cat gave up trying to meet epa and pulled back to off highway to regroup.and if it wasn't for epa we would still be hearing how good the 7.3 is.


Take a look at the new off-road diesel emissions being phased in......they aren't exactly lax.

Check out www.dieselnet.com
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Re: THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby Have Gun Will Travel » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:11 pm

2500hdon37s wrote:
Have Gun Will Travel wrote:They are all man made and therefore POS's. Ford has problems....chevy has an IFS that falls apart in every heavy duty truck ive seen. And show me a new vehicle that isnt almost imposssible to work on. Give me a break. Wahhhh Wahhh my job isnt easy...

I will say that i have a '02 with a 7.3. I would buy the chevy but only if they loose that crappy front end.

no, it doesnt fall apart at all.
my dad has right at 260,000 miles on his duramax and the front end has never been touched, it still has the orignal ball joints, and has never been realigned and it still runs straight as an arrow down the road. the only reason my front is has been messes with is because i knocked it out of alingment mudding and 37 inch tires are not easy on the ifs, and had the ball joints replaced one time, and mine has 177,000 miles on it.

as well as the other 6 other HD chevys in my family have never had problems with the ifs, but yes i do agree they should have solid axles, so my brother on his last duramax had a D60 for the front axle.



Just stating what i have seen with the trucks around me. That duramax with the allison tranny is a tough combo to beat. If they'd just got to solid axle they would have the best truck on the road as far as running gear and power plant. Still love my 7.3 until then!! 210K and still going strong.
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Re: THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby waterfowlhunter » Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:16 am

I have never liked working of Ford trucks, What is funny is that the smaller vehicles like the Old Escorts for example were very simple and easy to access. I had a buddy that took his ford explorer in to have the valve cover gaskets replaced due to leaking. They quoted him $850 to replace to gaskets. He told them to shove it and brought it to me, We looked it over and done some "google" research and found that due to the MASSIVE ammount of EGR and Emission tubes, brackets and wireing that the job could take as long as 10 hours (to replace 2 valve cover gaskets). he found it cheaper to change the oil @ 4000 miles rather than the 5000 he was changing it at when it would be about a quart low and just let it leak. I was in the market for a new truck myself but after looking at payments on a new Duramax even with $14,000 down (my trade) I have decided to keep my 2001 HD with 50,000 miles on it and drive it until I become wealthy.

SIMPLE IS BETTER :beer:

We have several international Harvester / Farmall tractors with turbo Diesels, No Electronics, no emissions and no fancy tuners and they have been running HARD since the 60's with no issues at all. When they are in the field they run WOT all day long and never complain. :yes:
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Re: THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby waterfowlhunter » Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:30 am

Have Gun Will Travel wrote:chevy has an IFS that falls apart in every heavy duty truck ive seen. I would buy the chevy but only if they loose that crappy front end.


No one truck has everything that would make it the "perfect" truck for me ( except possibly a unimog :biggrin: ) But they Still should be straight forward and easily maintained or repaired with readilly available parts.

I would love to see GM go back to a Solid Front axle on the HD series. I have one 89 Chevy that is on its second engine with a total of around 275,000 miles on it, It is a plow truck and has not had any issues with the front end other than the heater element in the differential that engages the front axles had to be replaced. My dads 94 has never had any front end issues and just cleared 200,000 miles, it is a tow rig on its second trans. Both these are farm trucks too and see a lot of heavy hard use. The only issues I have heard of or seen is when they are abused and having wheel spin in the air then hitting hard ground and snapping cv joints or lifted trucks that change the CV angles which will definately cause them to fail prematurely.

BUT I would rather have a solid axle if I was running mud bogs or a lift kit and large tires. But even then on my 79 K30 I used to snap front U-joints with 36" ground hawgs in the pits.
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Re: THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby Coleman24 » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:02 am

didn't read much of this post, but just go with a cummins, won't have problems haha
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Re: THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby RiverReaper » Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:58 pm

I've got an 08 ford diesel with 32,000 miles and its gone through 2-radiators and a tranny. I'm selling it and getting a duramax and doing a solid axle swap. I've always been a ford guy but seeing several 6.0 liters go through my family and my experience with a 6.4 theres no way i'm buying a 6.7. Loyalty only goes so far, at some point it has to be backed up with a superior product. I've owned 7.3's and loved them but won't pay what guys are asking for a used one, $20,000 for a 10 year old truck with 150K on it is ridiculous.
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Re: THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby Quackerbarrel » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:38 pm

If you were looking at a brand new ford I would use all the money and make a fummins (ford truck, cummins motor) get an old 12v cummins with a ppump (bosch p7100 injection pump) and do or have someone do the swap in whatever ford truck you want. Match that combo up with a nv5600 6 speed and you will have a truck that will
run forever. I have 270k on my 12v.
As far as duramax goes, you can have a cool hottod diesel but the metal that isuzu (isuzu makes the motor) is the cheapest junk I ever seen.
And as far as Car and Ford, the only Cat influrnce on the fords is the HEUI injecyor system (Cat owns the design)
As far as allison transmissions go, I built a 46rle auto out of a dodge that can run circles around an allison. Any auto trans is "weak" and can use improvements so dont buy a truck just for the name brand trans.
Goodluck with the purchase and enjoy.
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Re: THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby AaronSDMF » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:39 pm

lameduck wrote:Dodge needs to get the body/frame up to speed with the motor. How can you have the Cummings and only be able to tow 18k lbs when Ford/Chevy are 22-23k lbs? I had my mind set on a Dodge 3500 manual because I tow heavy trailers often for my business but one of the gooseneck/excavator combos we have weigh in at 21k and I could not pull it with the dodge. They need to step it up.



CUMMINS
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Re: THINKING OF NEW FORD DIESEL THINK AGAIN...

Postby LaRedneck » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:36 pm

AaronSDMF wrote:
lameduck wrote:Dodge needs to get the body/frame up to speed with the motor. How can you have the Cummings and only be able to tow 18k lbs when Ford/Chevy are 22-23k lbs? I had my mind set on a Dodge 3500 manual because I tow heavy trailers often for my business but one of the gooseneck/excavator combos we have weigh in at 21k and I could not pull it with the dodge. They need to step it up.



CUMMINS



http://www.allpar.com/trucks/ram/ram-chassis-cabs.html

Think dodge took care of that :yes:
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