Bag limit of ducks

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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Lreynolds » Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:00 pm

Indaswamp wrote: ..... then what about the possession limit for teal? during the teal season the possession limit is 4, but it jumps to 6 during the regular season.
square that one for us.


The teal season is a "special season" that was first considered in the early 1960's when restrictive hunting regulations were leading to searches for additional opportunities from populations that were considered "under-harvested", like bluewings and scaup (how things have changed, eh?). The bag limit for ducks in those days was 4 per day, so the teal season limit was 4.

The teal season was controversial. Northern states did NOT support it, especially since they were not allowed to participate as "production" states. The USFWS wasn't real supportive either, so keeping the bag limit at 4 instead of 10 or 5 (during point-system days) was seen as a conservative compromise to maintain support for the season.

I'd also like to note that in 1992, 1993, and 1994, the limit during the Teal season was 4 per day, but the limit during the regular duck season was only 3 per day. For some reason, I didn't hear one single duck hunter wondering about the inconsistency in the bag limits in those seasons.

Fast-forward to today. Texas has been asking for a 6 per day bag limit on teal for a few years, and the northern states still want to participate. The USFWS has created an ad-hoc committee, of which I am a member, to scientifically evaluate the harvest potential for blue-winged teal in an attempt to create a biological foundation for dealing with these requests. Of course, much of the bluewing harvest comes from Mexico and South America, so the job faces some big difficulties. But the goal is to see if we can increase the limit and/or allow the northern states to have a teal season without negatively affecting the population of bluewings, which is pretty dynamic as it is.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Indaswamp » Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:07 pm

Larry, I only brought teal up for the legal ramifications concerning possession limits...in 1992-94, one would be in violation of the law if he had in his freezer 2 limits of teal taken during teal season once the regular season opens..this is ridiculous IMO.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Sandman3400 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:52 pm

Well, Larry, I had prepared a nice long point by point response, but I really screwed up the breaks in the quotes so I am going to boil it down (since I don't have the energy to retype). My summary of our argument is like this:

1) You say the regulations / management are not more complicated than necessary because the government is just listening to the interest group (in this case duck hunters).

2) I say the regulations and management are much more complicated than necessary because the government is listening to the demands of the interest group.

I understand that very little (if any) of this comes from the managers / biologists, and that it is all politically driven. That is my main problem with the system. The biologists should be allowed to manage the resource in the most scientifically sound manner without the input of politicians. Yes, I know that is a pipe dream.

P.S. I think you were taking the my shot about the # of regulation pages a little too seriously. Granted my math was bad (never was very good at it. Blame my high school algebra teacher.) My point was that it is longer and more complex than it should be, and I still believe that. Even if it is only 5-7/8 pages of gobbledy-gook (sorry, couldn't resist!)
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Lreynolds » Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:35 pm

Indaswamp wrote:Larry, I only brought teal up for the legal ramifications concerning possession limits...in 1992-94, one would be in violation of the law if he had in his freezer 2 limits of teal taken during teal season once the regular season opens..this is ridiculous IMO.


OK ...... I missed that connection. Sorry about that.

The same problem has always existed for US hunters returning from Canada, or other Flyway hunters coming back from the Pacific Flyway, or MS Flyway hunters having a good mallard hunt in the Central Flyway.

Like I said earlier, it's pretty difficult to draw enforceable lines even though the concept is pretty simple.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Lreynolds » Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:16 pm

Sandman3400 wrote: My summary of our argument is like this:

1) You say the regulations / management are not more complicated than necessary because the government is just listening to the interest group (in this case duck hunters).

2) I say the regulations and management are much more complicated than necessary because the government is listening to the demands of the interest group.


Not quite. I don't know whether the regulations are more complicated than necessary or not. That is your contention, and for all I know, it's true.

But you lay responsibility for that complication on "government", which in this case, includes me. I'm the government employee that has to produce the regulations. LDWF is the government agency that publishes and enforces those regulations. But that is NOT the source of the complication.

Blaming it on "government" is an inaccurate overstatement, especially when the impetus for creating those complications does NOT come from either the politicians or the government wildlilfe-management agency ...... it comes from HUNTERS!! There is no need for politicians to force me to over-complicate the regulations without the political pressure from HUNTERS. Hell, I've never had a politician even call me without being pressured by hunters first.

Sandman3400 wrote: P.S. I think you were taking the my shot about the # of regulation pages a little too seriously. Granted my math was bad (never was very good at it. Blame my high school algebra teacher.) My point was that it is longer and more complex than it should be, and I still believe that. Even if it is only 5-7/8 pages of gobbledy-gook (sorry, couldn't resist!)


Nah ... I was just giving you a bad time. I have the hunting pamphlets back to 1968; it's amazing how much they have expanded.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby quackerattacker » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:47 pm

Would have to give you boys credit for doing away with the one-o-which to none-o-which split seasons, Larry. Always hated having to post the season dates in the pits so we'd know whether we could shoot sprigs or cans on that day or not. Tip o the hat for doing away with that garbage. Some things change for the better... :thumbsup:
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Lreynolds » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:11 pm

We (the Mississippi Flyway Council Technical Committee) absolutely HATE those seasons-within-seasons!! Unfortunately, they are not gone for canvasbacks or scaup; their populations have been high enough (or low enough) to avoid them recently. There is also no guarantee that they won't become an option for other species if their population levels should warrant it.

We did adopt a new pintail harvest strategy that does not allow seasons-within-seasons; the season on pintails is either closed or it's open for the entire duck season with a limit of 1 or 2 per day. And we'll keep working on the rest of them.

Can you imagine a 60-day season based on mallard populations with a 30-day partial season on canvasbacks, a 30-day partial season on pintails, and a 45-day partial season on scaup within those 60 days? That was a possibility, and might still happen (except for pintails) if we continue with these separate population models for each species.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Papachessie » Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:08 am

Lreynolds wrote:We (the Mississippi Flyway Council Technical Committee) absolutely HATE those seasons-within-seasons!! Unfortunately, they are not gone for canvasbacks or scaup; their populations have been high enough (or low enough) to avoid them recently. There is also no guarantee that they won't become an option for other species if their population levels should warrant it.

We did adopt a new pintail harvest strategy that does not allow seasons-within-seasons; the season on pintails is either closed or it's open for the entire duck season with a limit of 1 or 2 per day. And we'll keep working on the rest of them.

Can you imagine a 60-day season based on mallard populations with a 30-day partial season on canvasbacks, a 30-day partial season on pintails, and a 45-day partial season on scaup within those 60 days? That was a possibility, and might still happen (except for pintails) if we continue with these separate population models for each species.


Quacker, you'd better get the dry erase boards ready. :lol3:
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby quackerattacker » Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:48 am

Papachessie wrote:Quacker, you'd better get the dry erase boards ready. :lol3:


:lol3:

Eh, if future scrap duck patterns hold consistent with the last few seasons, I'm safe until they opt for spoonie, teal, or grey split seasons. :yes:
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby #4Buckshot » Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:33 am

With this years increased goose limits, combined with the liberal duck limits, I thought this a good post to review.
Some of the replies? ummmmmmm, not so much.

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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby #4Buckshot » Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:40 am

Whoops-e-daisy! I thought this was California Duck Hunting. No wonder I didn't see this post when it originally came out.
My Bad.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Indaswamp » Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:12 am

actually, I'm glad you bumped this thread up. Because of this discussion, the Louisiana state regulations clarified the wording in the regs. pamphlet for this season and cleared up a bunch of the confusion... :thumbsup: Thanks Larry! :thumbsup:
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby jehler » Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:28 am

quackerattacker wrote: Not that anybody other than the ethics police here will ever care... :fingerhead:

You talking about HNTFSH?
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Papachessie » Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:03 am

jehler wrote:
quackerattacker wrote: Not that anybody other than the ethics police here will ever care... :fingerhead:

You talking about HNTFSH?
:hi:

He's just the Chief. There's plenty of lieutenants on the take around here to pay off if you want to get away with group limits, or shooting a minute after hours. :beer:
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Indaswamp » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:32 am

bump...
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Indaswamp » Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:15 am

here is a different point I'd like to make, what if I shoot my daily bag limit of nothing but teal 2 days during the 2011-2012 season, then clean them and stick them in the freezer. 2012 Teal season rolls around, yet I do not go hunting...by the law, I'm over possession limit during teal season. :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: stupid.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Indaswamp » Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:36 am

Indaswamp wrote:here is a different point I'd like to make, what if I shoot my daily bag limit of nothing but teal 2 days during the 2011-2012 season, then clean them and stick them in the freezer. 2012 Teal season rolls around, yet I do not go hunting...by the law, I'm over possession limit during teal season. :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: stupid.

This implies either possession limit has a time limit on it, OR there is a 3X daily bag limit on teal for possession limit during teal season.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Black Brant » Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:10 am

What about those spring seasons and those lucky enough to have a bunch of goose sausage in the freezer? I asked the two feds out here last week and they had no answer, couldn't really fault them as that is not the issue in Alaska, didn't even want to go with our subsistance hunt, seagulls, sandpipers and owls and such. It is confusing to say the least.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby aunt betty » Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:18 am

How is anyone going to know (or care) how many ducks you have in your freezer...unless you post it online. :wink:
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby assateague » Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:56 am

I suspect a possession limit has nothing whatsoever to do with time. Heck, they could be 6 years old, and it wouldn't matter, because the powers that be have decided how many you should have. If your possession limit is in your freezer, technically you shouldn't even be hunting.
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Bag limit of ducks

Postby Botiz630 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:02 pm

aunt betty wrote:How is anyone going to know how many ducks you have in your freezer...:

They track you through the chip in your "flu shot".
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Indaswamp » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:07 pm

Let me say this...I intend to shoot as many of them as I possibly can during the season. And I intend on eating every one of them...or cooking them for friends, especially my handicapped buddy who can no longer duck hunt. IMO it is completely asinine for me to have to "gift" birds to friends and relatives to obey a strict interpretation of the law the way it is written. It is what it is....I have no idea what their reasoning is behind the possession limit being enforce at one's permanent residence. Good thing my friends and relatives live very close... :wink:
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Indaswamp » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:08 pm

and no where in the regulations does it say that you can not gift them to an unlicensed person.
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Bag limit of ducks

Postby assateague » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:42 pm

Somewhere, HNTFSH just felt a disturbance in the Force.
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Re: Bag limit of ducks

Postby Indaswamp » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:15 pm

assateague wrote:Somewhere, HNTFSH just felt a disturbance in the Force.

:lol3: what can I say...I LOVE EATING DUCKS COOKED RIGHT!!! :wink: :yes:
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