Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback (video added)

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Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback (video added)

Postby tjs011 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:10 pm

I finally got my skinny water rig out for a test run this past weekend. I got a great deal on the layout boat/blind/trailer, but I knew the 9.5hp outboard would'nt cut it for hunting around here. I was on a very tight budget and could not touch a 6.5hp longtail for less than $1500. That led me to the eBay SPS kits... After a little research on the kit and seeing how easy the honda clone harbor freight motors were to mod, I was sold.

I picked up the Predator 212cc engine from Harbor Freight on sale for $79. I added the 2 yr replacement warranty for $20. I know it's a knock-off, but it's pretty well made. I was impressed.
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I decided to do the basic stage 1 kart mods before I ever fired up the engine. I ordered parts from OMBWAREHOUSE and NR-Racing. I removed the governor, re-jetted the carb, installed GX140 emulsion tube, advanced timing 8deg, replaced flywheel with OEM GX200, installed 18lb valve springs, high flow air filter, and custom header/exhaust. I had zero experience modding small engines, but there is a ton of info out there on the karting sites and forums. Mods finished, ready for the mud motor kit.

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The kit was shipped with a chrome tiller handle and chrome coupler housing. The transom and brackets were turquoise... I sand blasted, primed, and painted everything and installed everything on the boat without any major problems. I also added a small digital tach to help tune the engine/prop combo. My biggest gripe for now is the throttle set up. I'm working on a brake lever/squeeze throttle, i just need to get it all together.

This thing handles well, not a lot of tiller torque. The whole motor assembly weighs less than 70lbs, so it's perfect for a small boat. I hit just over 15.2mph at 4250rpm with just me. My buddy jumped in and we were cruising at 12.5mph without a problem. The kit came with a 6.5in prop, but I have 7in on the way to compare. Here are few pictures of the whole rig.

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I found a little bit of mud, but no enough to really test it out yet. Hoping to do that in the next few days. I have high hopes for this season with this set up.. With the boat blind on I think it's going to lethal!

Got a PM asking for a video of it running... Here it is. Sorry about the lighting!
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Last edited by tjs011 on Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback

Postby GooseHunter131 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:13 pm

Those are great boats, I have one also. I have the link to some photos of my set up. I need to post up some new photos, I have it grassed a lot different, and I have added a 13 HP Beavertail Long Tail. Gives you an idea of how my blind is set up, It works great. Good Luck with everything!! Huff

http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/show ... p?t=739313
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Re: Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback

Postby JAXcrisp » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:58 pm

how much does your boat weigh? and have you thought of getting your propshaft and housing shortened? just wondering, i have an Arthur Armstrong Widgeon and wonder about doing the same thing
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Re: Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback

Postby Undrcoverrednek » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:49 pm

I believe another member, John O'Neal, has one of these and has been very pleased. Add your harbor freight motor and hybrid and you got a small water duck machine.
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Re: Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback

Postby pootz79 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:53 am

How much did all the mods to the motor run you?
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Re: Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback

Postby JuniorPre 360 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:06 am

this is the first time i've seen the predator all modded up. looks great man!!
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Re: Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback

Postby tjs011 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:48 pm

Thanks for all the comments... I'm optimistic about this little boat. I think it will give me more opportunities at getting to those hard to reach spots. There are a lot of advantages to having a lightweight, low profile boat with mud motor. Hopefully it will be a good season. I put the 7in prop on today. It was way too windy to run wide open, but I like the way it handles.

@JAX
The boat weighs around 140lbs. It's not super light, but it's manageable and drafts very well in shallow water. I don't plan on shortening the shaft. The longer shaft looks a little weird, but the prop angle helps with running speed.

@Undercoverrednek
John has helped me a lot via PM! I've asked him plenty of questions during this process and he is always quick to reply. His engine mods are a little more complex than mine. I'm new to modding small engines so I stuck to the basics.

@pootz79
I think I spent a little over $100 on parts for the engine. I'm still planning to add a brake lever for a squeeze throttle set up.

I got everything from NR-Racing and OMBWarehouse. NR sells modded (race-ready) Predators, ready to bolt on. If you don't want to do the work yourself, it's not a bad idea. I wanted to get my hands dirty and understand the mods I was making so that I would know what to look for if something goes wrong. Plus I saved a lot of money and learned a lot by doing it myself.

I bought this boat from a member here (Farvafire) and he spent a ton of time on building a full blind. It's very impressive. I'll post more pics when I have it all rigged up.
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Re: Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback

Postby FullandFuller » Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:45 pm

:eek: :eek:

He just bought that in '09, I remember that thread. I wonder why he sold it. He had put a blind on it using cattle panels and was running a 9.9 as of last summer...sure looked like it would work well.
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Re: Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback

Postby JuniorPre 360 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:31 am

don't buy any extra parts for that motor to set up a brake lever throttle. with the predator, it has all of the peices already built on it so all you need to do is attatch the cable to the lever and it's complete. just loosen the main throttle screw and connect the cable to the "grabber" on it and run it through the l-bracket. with my blue honda clone, i had to rig up my own throttle system. i was very impressed to see the predator already had those pieces. these are real good motors.
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Re: Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback

Postby tjs011 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:27 am

JuniorPre 360 wrote:don't buy any extra parts for that motor to set up a brake lever throttle. with the predator, it has all of the peices already built on it so all you need to do is attatch the cable to the lever and it's complete. just loosen the main throttle screw and connect the cable to the "grabber" on it and run it through the l-bracket. with my blue honda clone, i had to rig up my own throttle system. i was very impressed to see the predator already had those pieces. these are real good motors.


I was happy to see that it came like that. It's nice not to have to build/modify the throttle plate. It went together very easily. Now I just need to order the brake lever to replace the throttle lever that came with it.
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Re: Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback

Postby tjs011 » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:38 pm

GooseHunter131 wrote:Those are great boats, I have one also. I have the link to some photos of my set up. I need to post up some new photos, I have it grassed a lot different, and I have added a 13 HP Beavertail Long Tail. Gives you an idea of how my blind is set up, It works great. Good Luck with everything!! Huff

http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/show ... p?t=739313


That blind is incredible. Mine came with a pretty nice blind from the previous owner. I'm going to have to modify it slightly to use with the mud motor. I really like the design on yours with the lights up front. Very nice! What keeps the back "wings" from dragging in the water when you are running the boat??
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Re: Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback (video added)

Postby GooseHunter131 » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:50 am

When fully open, they dont touch the water. The doors are about half the size that the cockpit is wide. When they are open and I'm running the boat, I even put dekes on the doors. I have wire mesh welded to the top of the doors as well as the platform up front. Makes it very solid and provides plenty of places to put things while motoring.
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Re: Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback (video added)

Postby John O`Neal » Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:34 pm

Taylor : Nice job on your modifications . I think you will enjoy that extra margin of power your mods will provide . It helps especially when the mud gets thick or the weeds are heavy. Your rig looks good and I am sure you are going to have a great time with it . I put in a couple pics of my layout /long-tail combo in action. The little boats work well !!!

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Re: Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback (video added)

Postby PSJ » Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:01 pm

Man you've got me fire up about mod'ing my new Predator up. On your boat, can you put a few more photos of your blind?
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Re: Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback (video added)

Postby kart racer » Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:34 pm

any mods on this engines a billet fly wheel is a must i had 90 stiches to prove it. when the gov or speed control is removed the stock flywheel is a time bomb nr racing has arc billet flywheels @ 99.00$ and arc billet rods around 50.00$ the tin cover is a flying knife when it blows all my motors have billet flywheels . cheap up grades are tighter valve springs remove the gov a wennie pipe and re jet the carb for gas engines to get around 10 hp for big gains upgrade cam bigger pipe and run meth man do they fly
dont do what i did buy the flywheel easy to change. :help:
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Re: Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback (video added)

Postby klee7013 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:30 pm

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Re: Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback (video added)

Postby PSJ » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:39 am

I'm about to follow your lead on this very same motor and set up. Have you had any issues that may save me some time (and money) on this project? Did you ever work out the throttle issue you talked about?
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Re: Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback (video added)

Postby John O`Neal » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:24 pm

kart racer wrote:any mods on this engines a billet fly wheel is a must i had 90 stiches to prove it.

I certainly don`t disagree with you that a billet flywheel is a good idea, but I do think it may be a little overkill in this application. If we rev the motor into the rpm range where the flywheel becomes a time bomb waiting to go off we will have long since over-sped the prop and lost meaningful thrust . The clones are great little motors, especially for their price and they do have rpm limitations. But those limits are high enough they shouldn't affect their usage as long tail power units.
My grandson`s Kart alternates between a clone eng . and a Briggs Flatty depending on which track he is at . His stock class clone is required to retain the stock flywheel. He turns the motor up to about 5200 tops . Some of the classes turn them over 6000 with stock flywheels . I have yet to see a clone engine fail this season and have never seen one blow the flywheel. In this case I think what we are doing with the engine is the determining factor as to which flywheel we use. . Scott Racing engines in Basehor Ks. Is getting 10+ hp on the dyno out of his stock class clone engines just through blueprinting them . This basic Honda engine design responds well to a little massaging.
For those of you out there having problem with your throttle linkage hookups on your long tail here is a part # from Honda that will help take the guesswork out of it.
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An old pic of my grandson`s Kart with a Briggs Flatty in it . The clone eng. is much faster.
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Re: Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback (video added)

Postby shoot-n-goose » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:04 pm

John O`Neal wrote:Image


Whats holding up that mojo pole in the boat? I'm guessing its just there for transport, I'd like to do something similar and was wondering if you did anything spacial to hold it there
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Re: Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback (video added)

Postby John O`Neal » Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:39 pm

shoot-n-goose wrote:


Whats holding up that mojo pole in the boat? I'm guessing its just there for transport, [/quote]


A piece of 1" square 16 gauge tubing is welded to a small bracket which bolts to the vertical panel . The Mojo stake just slides down into it. It is a convenient way to transport the Mojo ready to go in the water.




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Re: Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback (video added)

Postby guywithhat » Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:06 pm

John O`Neal wrote:
kart racer wrote:any mods on this engines a billet fly wheel is a must i had 90 stitches to prove it.


was that a stock clone or genuine honda flywheel that grenade'd on you? he said he upgraded to the gx200 flywheel, which I believe is aluminum instead of cast iron or what ever is in the clones that don't like the high RPM...

I've just recently been looking into modding these new predator engines as well for a new shorttail build Iam starting.. and it seems with most of the mods, it moves you max torque into a higher RPM range.. which isn't that big a deal if you run a belt/chain drive and can gear down to get the right rpm's to the prop, but with the longtail 1:1 direct drive.. i'd try to keep all the power in the lower rpm's... iam not sure how to acomplish this other then the gx140 emulsion tube, I think the gx160 head will fit the predator... 18cc or the 14cc giving you more compression, and your gx200 or 160 flywheel to lighten up the spinning mass...
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Re: Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback (video added)

Postby John O`Neal » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:45 pm

guywithhat wrote:
John O`Neal wrote:
kart racer wrote:any mods on this engines a billet fly wheel is a must i had 90 stitches to prove it.


was that a stock clone or genuine honda flywheel that grenade'd on you? he said he upgraded to the gx200 flywheel, which I believe is aluminum instead of cast iron or what ever is in the clones that don't like the high RPM...

I've just recently been looking into modding these new predator engines as well for a new shorttail build Iam starting.. and it seems with most of the mods, it moves you max torque into a higher RPM range.. which isn't that big a deal if you run a belt/chain drive and can gear down to get the right rpm's to the prop, but with the longtail 1:1 direct drive.. i'd try to keep all the power in the lower rpm's... iam not sure how to acomplish this other then the gx140 emulsion tube, I think the gx160 head will fit the predator... 18cc or the 14cc giving you more compression, and your gx200 or 160 flywheel to lighten up the spinning mass...


Unless you plan on making a radical cam change to a cam with a lot more duration I wouldn`t worry about raising the peak power point. It`s just not going to change it enough to affect your operation. A great place to get answers to all of your clone questions is www.4cyclekarting.com (clone forum) . There are some great articles on modifying your clone .

Below is a reprint of a post from that forum concerning flywheel useage. Although I don`t feel it necessary to go to the billet flywheel for longtail use I would certainly reccomend it if you plan on turning your motor over 5500 rpm.

davidwaller@dejazzd.com11-14-07,, 08:20 AM
My son's Jiang Dong clone (stock) flywheel exploded at 6000 RPM last weekend. I know the RPM because I know the gearing and the minibike has a speedometer. This is on a minibike and doesn't have that much time on it at high RPM (not used for racing). He was very lucky that he got away with only a scratch. If you saw what his minibike and engine looked like afterwards, you probably wouldn't want to be racing with a stock clone flywheel. The carburetor (destroyed) and intake manifold were completely blown off the engine (left behind on the road), gas tank (badly) smashed, crankcase holed, part of the cylinder head ripped off, flywheel cover completely blown off the engine, fuel line and spark plug wire severed, very heavy steel minibike frame badly dented. Unless my son was just extremely unlucky, these engines are not safe for racing at 6000 RPM with the stock flywheel.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback (video added)

Postby DUCKSUNLIMITED33 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:59 pm

About how much did the whole setup cost? I've been thinking of putting a mud motor on my boat.
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Re: Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback (video added)

Postby PSJ » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:38 pm

You can do it for right at $600.00 w/o modding your motor. That's buying a $79.00 Predator from Harbor Freight.
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Re: Thai longtail build on Carsten Canvasback (video added)

Postby guywithhat » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:45 am

79$... I just paid 149 for mine up in watertown NY... meh... still worth it for that engine...
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