Global Warming Skepticism

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Global Warming Skepticism

Postby scientia » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:46 pm

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Re: Global Warming Skepticism

Postby aunt betty » Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:14 pm

The earth warms up and then cools off. Been going on for a long time I heard.
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Re: Global Warming Skepticism

Postby scientia » Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:52 pm

I don't, nor do climate scientists, argue that the earth's climate hasn't experienced significant climate changes over it's lifetime (in fact it is their climate data that shows the changes in climate). The earth doesn't really care what the temperature is as it will continue to be here for a long, long time, as long as the Sun doesn't explode.

We as a species, however, are fairly sensitive to climatic changes. Yes, the earth has, in the past, been as warm and, in fact, warmer than it is now. But when it was, there weren't more than 7 billion humans on the earth who relied on a fairly narrow climate window to allow for a steady and reliable food supply.
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Re: Global Warming Skepticism

Postby circustrail » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:15 pm

I hope that global can at least be minimized, weather pattern changes are really changing & this is not a good thing
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Re: Global Warming Skepticism

Postby RustyGunz1960 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:15 pm

The fact that the earth has gone through warming and cooling cycles in the past is certainly true, but that fact does not necessarily preclude humans from having an effect on the process. That would be like saying that since dinosaurs went extinct long before man was on the scene, we can’t be accused of playing a role in the extinction of any specie since then. In any case, too many people take pre-determined stances on this, and on other issues, based on their political ideology rather than on what they’ve researched on the subject. When they claim their stances are based on facts or research they mean they have selectively chosen sources that support their stance and discounted those that didn’t. Some believe global warming is happening just because Al Gore says it is, and others claim it can’t be happening, just because Al Gore says it is. It is unfortunately human nature to look at things so subjectively.

I can’t claim to know whether or not humans are hastening the process but I have seen some pretty drastic changes first-hand in the last few decades. More and more southern species which were once rare in my area are now commonplace, such as Brown Pelicans and Glossy Ibises. I am seeing the treeline at the edge of saltmarshes all along the local coast dieing back and receding, being replaced by stands of Phragmites. And one of my favorite winter activities of my youth, which was ice-fishing, can rarely be done in my area with any degree of safety. Any of these can have other explanations, but similar things are happening all over the world, seemingly sharing a common explanation.

I don’t know if it is even possible to prove with 100% certainty that humans are speeding up the warming process or not. But should the difficulty of discerning this proof alone be reason to insist it can’t be happening? My feeling is that most of the actions suggested to reverse the possible effect humans are having are not bad things to do anyway. Is it a bad thing to slow down the consumption of non-renewable resources? Is it bad to use more modern or alternate technology and end up spending less money driving your car or heating your home? Depending on what the costs of doing so are, there is much to be said for playing it safe when unsure of the correct course in life. Boy, that was wordier than I had planned. Perhaps my wife is right??????? :eek:
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Re: Global Warming Skepticism

Postby dakotashooter2 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:48 am

The earth is in a constant state of flux. It doesn't matter what you do there is potential for change. Over time every life form on this planet has experienced that change and either adapted or died out. Do we think there were no environmental changes in the earth when the dinosaur populations went from thousands to billions? We can't deny than mankind has the potential to cause the most rapid changes in the environment. The real reason we need to make and effort to manage our environment as much as possible is to give us time to adapt as it makes those inevitable changes.
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Re: Global Warming Skepticism

Postby aunt betty » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:40 am

At or around the same time as "global warming" appeared...
The way we measured temperature and weather in general was changed.
Up until then a very old device called a "phillips box" or something like that was used. It was a white box with slats on the sides and was used for a very long time to measure and record weather data.

Now they have a new device. It is designed to be hooked up and put on-line to the internet with a cable. Ideally any weather-recording device should be several hundred feet away from any buildings or heat sources. This device comes with a 100-FOOT long cable so most/ALL installations are done incorrectly.

There are many cases where these weather-machines are installed right next to the air conditioner condensing coils on the roof where it is extremely hot...In other words a whole lot of crappy data is being fed into the system and the computer eats it up and then spits out a forecast of global warming. The way we measure the weather is flawed and giving us false data.

I wonder if Al Gore has anything to do with this....

Now the glaciers are really melting and so is the South Pole so maybe we better take a closer look. I'm not sure about global warming one way or the other but there are valid arguments for both sides of the coin.
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Re: Global Warming Skepticism

Postby barryboy08 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:08 pm

Global warming = myth created by the leaders of forieng govt. And spoon feed to get americans to invest in shity foriegn cars and other cure all bull
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Re: Global Warming Skepticism

Postby Slack Tide » Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:19 pm

I just cant believe that there are people on this planet that are so **** stupid as to not accept that the crap we spew into the air can affect the atmosphere to such a degree that it can affect the global temperature....

It's absolutely happening
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Re: Global Warming Skepticism

Postby RustyGunz1960 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:02 pm

Slack Tide wrote:I just cant believe that there are people on this planet that are so **** stupid as to not accept that the crap we spew into the air can affect the atmosphere to such a degree that it can affect the global temperature....

It's absolutely happening


You said the magic word.....stupid. Ignorance can be cured with education but stupidity is a permanent condition. Blindly following a party line does away with all that bothersome thinking about things.
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Re: Global Warming Skepticism

Postby dakotashooter2 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:43 am

Many scientist also claim that a single event like Mt St Helens can negate ANY efforts the human race makes in a single year to attempt to reverse global warming.
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Re: Global Warming Skepticism

Postby 2Longgone » Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:24 pm

Obliviously there are actions that we as a human race perform that affect the environment. But I often wonder, of all the people that declare that the human race is largely responsible for global warming, how many of these people have gone 100 percent green. Do they still drive their SUV’s, ride a bike or hoof it. Do they still use conventional electricity versus solar power electric? If they do still have conventional electricity, do they only light the room that they are in, do they still watch TV, and it’s apparent that they still access the internet via their computer. Etc, etc, etc.

Just another political pedestal to hop on, IMO.

It’s the end of the world as we know it, and I’m just fine. :thumbsup:
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Re: Global Warming Skepticism

Postby Slack Tide » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:50 am

I do what I can to conserve and reuse etc, but I think the dialogue/debate comes from people being frustrated that some people think that this is NOT really happening...
Then you get the Holy Rollers in on it and they start the bible thing..
I don't think it's politics, I just think people get passionate when others try to tell you it's not happening.
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Re: Global Warming Skepticism

Postby eastcoastsoxfan » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:54 am

"The old school hunters shoot what they shoot and kill as many as they always have, the newbies have their 3.5."
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Re: Global Warming Skepticism

Postby gtb » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:24 pm

What should be the temperature?

If you can't answer that, then don't try telling me about man-made global warming.
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Re: Global Warming Skepticism

Postby buckmeister » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:00 pm

More damming evidence against the Church of Global warming. Turns out its the sun, who would have thought.

Leading research centre CERN has released its first weather experiment results that provides unprecedented insight into cloud formation and the climate.

The findings have significant implications for climate science as it suggests the sun plays a much bigger role in the creation of clouds than ever previously thought.

This is critical in climate change models and forecasts as water vapour and clouds play a large role in determining global temperatures. Tiny changes in overall cloud cover can result in relatively large temperature changes.

CERN's CLOUD experiment had been designed to study the effect of cosmic rays on the formation of atmospheric aerosols - tiny liquid or solid particles suspended in the atmosphere - under controlled laboratory conditions.

Atmospheric aerosols are thought to be responsible for a large fraction of the seeds that form cloud droplets. Understanding the process of aerosol formation is therefore important for understanding the climate.

The CLOUD results show that trace vapours assumed until now to account for aerosol formation in the lower atmosphere can explain only a tiny fraction of the observed atmospheric aerosol production.

The results also show that ionisation from cosmic rays significantly enhances aerosol formation. Precise measurements such as these are important in achieving a quantitative understanding of cloud formation, and will contribute to a better assessment of the effects of clouds in climate models.

“These new results from CLOUD are important because we’ve made a number of first observations of some very important atmospheric processes,” said the experiment’s spokesperson, Jasper Kirkby.

“We’ve found that cosmic rays significantly enhance the formation of aerosol particles in the mid troposphere and above. These aerosols can eventually grow into the seeds for clouds. However, we’ve found that the vapours previously thought to account for all aerosol formation in the lower atmosphere can only account for a small fraction of the observations - even with the enhancement of cosmic rays."

Atmospheric aerosols play an important role in the climate. Aerosols reflect sunlight and produce cloud droplets. Additional aerosols would therefore brighten clouds and extend their lifetime.

By current estimates, about half of all cloud droplets begin with the clustering of molecules that are present in the atmosphere only in minute amounts. Some of these embryonic clusters eventually grow large enough to become the seeds for cloud droplets.

Trace sulphuric acid and ammonia vapours are thought to be important, and are used in all atmospheric models, but the mechanism and rate by which they form clusters together with water molecules have remained poorly understood until now.

The CLOUD results show that a few kilometres up in the atmosphere sulphuric acid and water vapour can rapidly form clusters, and that cosmic rays enhance the formation rate by up to ten-fold or more. However, in the lowest layer of the atmosphere, within about a kilometre of Earth's surface, the CLOUD results show that additional vapours such as ammonia are required.

Crucially, however, the CLOUD results show that sulphuric acid, water and ammonia alone – even with the enhancement of cosmic rays - are not sufficient to explain atmospheric observations of aerosol formation. Additional vapours must therefore be involved, and finding out their identity will be the next step for CLOUD.

“It was a big surprise to find that aerosol formation in the lower atmosphere isn’t due to sulphuric acid, water and ammonia alone,” said Kirkby. “Now it’s vitally important to discover which additional vapours are involved, whether they are largely natural or of human origin, and how they influence clouds. This will be our next job.”

The CLOUD experiment consists of a state-of-the-art chamber in which atmospheric conditions can be simulated with high control and precision, including the concentrations of trace vapours that drive aerosol formation. A beam of particles from CERN’s Proton Synchrotron accelerator provides an artificial and adjustable source of cosmic radiation.


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Re: Global Warming Skepticism

Postby aunt betty » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:51 am

What some are arguing is that we can control the weather based on how much pollution we "spew".
I agree but I also KNOW that a whole lot of false weather data is being fed into the models.
Re-read what I posted above and then go look up "how temperature is measured" and dig really deep.
There is a weather station in Florida that is on top of the roof of a fire station. The roof is BLACK and has several AC units within two feet of the instruments. Do you think the data from THAT particular weather station is worth keeping track of?

Now repeat this "Florida mistake" thousands and thousands of times over the entire "weather grid".

I agree that there is global-warming or climate-change. All you need to do is go to Glacier National Park and look at where the glaciers used to be to see evidence that Global Warming does exist. All I'm saying is that it's not as bad as we think because the data is messed up.

If you really believe all this crap and want to "go green" just go out and shoot yourself. It's really the only way you can help. QUIT BREATHING...IT MAKES GREENHOUSE GASSES AND IT'S HEATING UP MY BACK YARD!

The "believers" are all preaching "go green" as they go out and buy a new home that is so huge it has (4) 200-amp electrical services, a home theater, swimming pool, and indoor tennis court.
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Re: Global Warming Skepticism

Postby dakotashooter2 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:25 pm

It seems many people mistakenly believe that humans can only exist in a narrow temperature band. I think we will adapt quite readily to a significant temperature fluxuation........... We already have............
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Re: Global Warming Skepticism

Postby 2Longgone » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:20 pm

aunt betty wrote:

If you really believe all this crap and want to "go green" just go out and shoot yourself. It's really the only way you can help. QUIT BREATHING...IT MAKES GREENHOUSE GASSES AND IT'S HEATING UP MY BACK YARD!

The "believers" are all preaching "go green" as they go out and buy a new home that is so huge it has (4) 200-amp electrical services, a home theater, swimming pool, and indoor tennis court.


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Re: Global Warming Skepticism

Postby dudejcb » Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:02 pm

dakotashooter2 wrote:Many scientist also claim that a single event like Mt St Helens can negate ANY efforts the human race makes in a single year to attempt to reverse global warming.
That may well be true. So what?
That doesn't unburden us from that for which we are responsible, it just makes it more important.
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Re: Global Warming Skepticism

Postby Slack Tide » Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:18 am

Long Gone.....

I don't think anyone is suggesting that you can eliminate your footprint on the environment, but "going green" has become a dirty word to selfish people who would rather believe that we are past the point of no return (hmmmmm, 2LonGone???).
Why do you still leave your diesel running at the 7-11?
Why don't you just separate your recyclables, you know it helps?
Why not get an on demand water heater the next time your blows? Do you really need 60 gallons of hot water reheating all day while you are at the bar?
So many little things that add up to a lot.

Even if global warming really turns out to be a natural swing shift, these things will save you money, keep things clean, limit waste etc...

What's the problem?
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Re: Global Warming Skepticism

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:24 pm

RustyGunz1960 wrote:The fact that the earth has gone through warming and cooling cycles in the past is certainly true, but that fact does not necessarily preclude humans from having an effect on the process. That would be like saying that since dinosaurs went extinct long before man was on the scene, we can’t be accused of playing a role in the extinction of any specie since then. In any case, too many people take pre-determined stances on this, and on other issues, based on their political ideology rather than on what they’ve researched on the subject. When they claim their stances are based on facts or research they mean they have selectively chosen sources that support their stance and discounted those that didn’t. Some believe global warming is happening just because Al Gore says it is, and others claim it can’t be happening, just because Al Gore says it is. It is unfortunately human nature to look at things so subjectively.

I can’t claim to know whether or not humans are hastening the process but I have seen some pretty drastic changes first-hand in the last few decades. More and more southern species which were once rare in my area are now commonplace, such as Brown Pelicans and Glossy Ibises. I am seeing the treeline at the edge of saltmarshes all along the local coast dieing back and receding, being replaced by stands of Phragmites. And one of my favorite winter activities of my youth, which was ice-fishing, can rarely be done in my area with any degree of safety. Any of these can have other explanations, but similar things are happening all over the world, seemingly sharing a common explanation.

I don’t know if it is even possible to prove with 100% certainty that humans are speeding up the warming process or not. But should the difficulty of discerning this proof alone be reason to insist it can’t be happening? My feeling is that most of the actions suggested to reverse the possible effect humans are having are not bad things to do anyway. Is it a bad thing to slow down the consumption of non-renewable resources? Is it bad to use more modern or alternate technology and end up spending less money driving your car or heating your home? Depending on what the costs of doing so are, there is much to be said for playing it safe when unsure of the correct course in life. Boy, that was wordier than I had planned. Perhaps my wife is right??????? :eek:

Rustygunz1960...you need to pipe in more often! You should take a look at the controversial issues forum sometimes. You seem to possess an ability to see the gist of an issue without resorting to partisan one-upmanship. That's a pretty rare gift around here, and I an admitting guilt as much as I am assigning it. :beer:
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Re: Global Warming Skepticism

Postby waterfowlman » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:51 pm

Only 12,000 years ago, New York City and the surrounding area was under glacial ice a mile thick. I think most New Yorkers are pretty happy with today's temperatures all things considered.
If you go to the far north of Canada you will find millions of fossilized tropical plants. If you go to the midwest US and dig around you will find thousands of carchaladon megladon (prehistoric great white shark) teeth.
Fact: Of all the species of plant and animal life known to have existed at one time or another on earth.....99% are now extinct.
The earth has been undergoing climate change for almost 6 billion years. We are looking at it through a small snap shot of one or two or three human life times.
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Re: Global Warming Skepticism

Postby Slack Tide » Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:17 pm

The difference Mr. Jaques Arse is that there were no PEOPLE there then! How can you dispute that we are having a negative impact on the earth?? Just say that alone and I'll be happy. The rest you can go back and forth about, but if you can just say that, it's a slight victory.........
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Re: Global Warming Skepticism

Postby Glimmerjim » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:53 pm

gtb wrote:What should be the temperature?

If you can't answer that, then don't try telling me about man-made global warming.

75 F. Drop to about 45 F at night. That's what I like best. Next question?
Last edited by Glimmerjim on Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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