Need to pick some brains

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Need to pick some brains

Postby Greg Wile » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:04 pm

Guys and gals I have some questions on what I need on my bow to start hunting with it . the first thing is I have a set of pin sights and thats where it ends. I need to know for hunting which is better to shoot with a release or fingers and then what type of arrow rest to use. Stabilizers what weight or an adjustable one. Quiver , hip or bow mount? String silencers. Peep sight or not? I know that I need acable separator and guide. On my old bow which I just messed around target shooting in the back yard with I shot bare bow and with fingers no add ons at all. Please give me some guidance. Lord knows I need it. :laughing:
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Re: Need to pick some brains

Postby Smackaduck » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:14 pm

first thing is I have a set of pin sights and thats where it ends.

If they are the old style throw them away and get some of the good fiber optic ones, they are amazing.

I need to know for hunting which is better to shoot with a release or fingers
Propably more personal preference, but I always shoot a release except when bow fishing.

and then what type of arrow rest to use.
I tend to stick with the old stuff with the exception to the sights, I shoot an old tiger tuff prong type rest because I dont care for the whisker biscuit and have not shot a drop away.

Stabilizers what weight or an adjustable one.
Not a big factor unless you are doing serious target shooting.

Quiver , hip or bow mount?
I carry my arrows in a side quiver in my pack cause its less to mess with when trying to sneak up on critters.

String silencers.
Back to old hat I use the old cat whiskers. But there are several new styles out and they all do about the same.

Peep sight or not?
Yes and dont get one so small that you can barely see through it.

I know that I need acable separator and guide.
Yes:
If they're dumb enough to be lured in by plastic you're really just doing them a favor.

Know your target before you pull the trigger.

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Postby choclab » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:52 pm

Dang Greg......hope you are ready for a long winded answer...... :yes:


Release
G with a release because they don't get affected by weather as much as your fingers do. So you have a consistant release.

Quivers
I like having a 2 piece quiver on my bow because it doesn't get in the way when I gotta crouch down or make a quick dive in the brush. I like having all my gear together so I can just grab it and go.

Sights
Gotta go with the fiber optics. Don't skimp on them either. My dad had a cheapo.....the sight was always off. When it was warm he would shoot to the left, then it would get cold and the damn thing would shoot to the right. Plastics flex. Get a sight that is all metal or aluminum.

Silencers
I shot wiskers for years, then I switched to navcom (limb savers). They are way better IMO. They hold up well and are super quite. Put limb savers everywhere. Put one on each limb, put small ones on your quiver, put them in your string, and put some on your cable gaurd. Navcom is a great product, plus the insulator wrap on the handle helps to reduce felt recoil.

Peep sight
Get a peep that has a larger hole. My dad has a small hole on his and he can only see a small part of the target. The peep is your rear sight...like on a gun. You wouldn't shoot a rifle with out a rear sight would ya? :umm: :tounge:

Rests
This can start a controversy.........I use fall aways instead of old school prongs. They allow me to shoot an aggresive helical with out having to worry about fletching clearance. I have had the NAP quicktune 4000 for about 8 years now and I have never had one single problem with it. The rest has seen three bows and is still going strong. The Trophy Taker fall away is always sure bet too. Why chance having a fletching touch when you can remove the whole clearance thing?

Stabilizers
Get what ever you can afford. It really doesn't matter the brand, as long as it has some type of noise dampner. I use a Doinker 7" hunter. It will help you be more steady on longer shots. Plus they help reduce bow noise and shock. I use one on my hunting bow and could not imagine shooting without one.

Bow Sling
Use a fleece bow sling too. They really have no technical advantage. They are just there for your comfort. Guys will grab their bows pretty hard because they don't want to drop it after the shot. Hard grip=torque. Torque is a really bad thing in archery. It will cause you to pull one way or the other after the shot. You want a grip that is fairly loose. I barely close my hand at all. My fingers don't even touch. The only part of the bow you want your hand to touch is the cradle between your thumb and forefinger. With all the shock reducing stuff on my bow my bow barely jumps at all. If it does fall out of my hand the sling won't allow my 800.00 dollar set up to hit the ground. Mind games.....thats what the sling helps eliminate.
"The rich....who are content to buy what they have not the skill to get by their own exertions, are the real enemies of game". Teddy Roosevelt
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Postby shrpshtr » Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:45 pm

excellent info in both posts...

i will reiterate the release though. it helps tremendously with accuracy for many reasons. i have tried several sights from pendulum to fiber to metal pins with color on the end. i came back to a set of t.m. hunter metal sights that cost me all of $30. you need a good stabilizer, i wouldn't get a real long one though. the more bulk you have on the bow the harder it is to manuever throught the thick stuff. i also use the string stabilizers but will probably go to the limb savers when/if i ever decide to try a new bow. like previously mentioned, rests are all about preference. the whisker biscuit is a great hunting rest because you don't have to worry about your arrow coming off of the rest before/during the drawing process. it's a huge help. arrows, the carbon arrows out now are amazing. i would recommend them to anyone purchasing new arrows. i still shoot aluminum because i have acquired about 6 dozen over the years and i haven't had to buy any for quite some time. i like peep sights also and the others are exactly right, get the peep with the bigger opening. i believe it's a 1/4 inch whole vs the standard 1/8. it makes a huge difference in low light situations especially. don't forget broadheads! i don't want to assume you wouldn't and you go and try to kill a big game animal with field tips. size is determined by a couple of different factors, most importantly draw weight. you'll do fine with 100 to 125gr heads for most any big game animal in north america. defintiely get a quiver. just remember, as light as it is (weight wise) make a decision when your siting in the bow as to whether you'll leave it attached or not. it's preference, so it doesn't matter, but it will make a difference in your accuarcy. don't sight it in without a full quiver if you plan on hunting with a full quiver.

let me add, there are very few more rewarding feelings than harvesting a big game animal (especially the elusive whitetail) with a bow. it's undescribeable. good luck and hth!
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Postby WI_Trapper » Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:56 pm

Well you guys said it all. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: The only thing I could think of is start shooting at about 10 yd till you get the hang of it.
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Postby Greg Wile » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:45 am

Thanks for the advice. Looks like you are all on the same page with the info so I will start getting some of it together as I plan on giving the bow hunting thing a try this fall. Thanks!
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Postby Citori12 » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:21 am

I would like to add something. When learning to use a bow find out what works for you...in the early hours of shooting time sometimes sights do not work like you want them too so shooting instinctively without releases is a good thing to practice. I have had releases freeze at the critical moment and cost the hunter a Sheep hunt of a lifetime...he was not very happy...I have killed 2 elk with a bow and both times I could barely see my sight pins as it was heavy overcast and dim light. Second carbon arrows are fine for targets...but do not use them on Elk....the are very poor performers on elk. I practice with the same weight target tip as I shoot broad heads. This way I know my sight pins and trajectory will be identical.

Most of all with a bow shoot as often as you can and practice extensively if you intend to take game with em.
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Postby goosecaller » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:47 am

Go with what makes you feel the most comfortable. I do not use a lot of fancy add ons on my bow. No stabilizers, only one pin set at 25 yards, none of the fiber optics, no carbon arrows. I do use a release and I have silencers on my bow. That is about it. I shoot in my back yard 15-20 arrows a day, 5 days a week. If you are comfortable and know your bow and limitations, you can kill anything you want. All you need is a lot of practice and with any set up you can become deadly with it. Don't get fooled by the price tags on some of this new equiptment, in my opinion, it just complicates things too much. I feel that bow hunting is a simple sport, so having too much set up on your bow only makes for more things that can go wrong. But I know that I don't share the same feelings as many many bow hunters.
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Postby Citori12 » Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:20 am

:withstupid: The less there is the less there is to fail in the field. I only use one sight pin also because......use a little kentucky windage and if I can determine where my sight pin is I can instincively hit what I need in dim light. It does not need to be fancy...I use limb silencer also but other than that my recurve and compound both are very very simple...With bows its nice to have the fps...but you have to remember you need to "Cut" that animal real well for good humane kills...a heavier arrow with a larger diameter broadhead carry more weight therefore are more effective. But balance is the big key here..the bow and arrows must be well suited for each other. Without it accuracy and effectiveness suffere. There is no difference in a few fps with bow speeds. Carbon arrows typically shoot faster only because they are lighter and may work well on deer size game...but I shoot a heavier broadhead and arrow because I have an 800lb animal to kill.
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Postby choclab » Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:14 pm

Citori12 wrote:Second carbon arrows are fine for targets...but do not use them on Elk....the are very poor performers on elk. I practice with the same weight target tip as I shoot broad heads. This way I know my sight pins and trajectory will be identical.


My arrows are 10 plus grains per inch. Thats pretty damn heavy. Carbons are the SUV of arrows. I beat the crap out of mine all summer long and hunt with them all fall. My bow only shoots about 245 fps... nothing amazing, but the new bows out now a days can store so much kenetic energy it crazy. If you are shooting the Easton XX75 2020 arrow at 29 inches you are only a few grains heavier than my arrows. And thats one of the heaviest arrows Easton makes. Carbons are the new arrow. They have proven them selves many times, and some even out penatrate their older cousin. They are more than enough arrow for elk. I have killed all kinds of animals with my carbons. The world record Bear was shot with a carbon, the world record Elk was shot with a carbon......the list goes on and on. Don't count out carbons for the big boys.

As far as the "kentucky windage", I refuse to chance a shot like that. I don't want to chance wounding an animal. Those are pretty risky shots. Even if you know your weapon guessing where an arrow will hit is pretty risky. On targets it's fine and fun to do, I wouldn't do it on game though....to many surprizes, or unknow factors are gonna be against that shot. These are just my opinions, nothing against guys that shoot like this.....I don't have the skill or desire to.
"The rich....who are content to buy what they have not the skill to get by their own exertions, are the real enemies of game". Teddy Roosevelt
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Postby Citori12 » Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:21 pm

:salude: Heee I always get caught up in debates. But here is what I will say...for those who are proffesional bow hunters they will shoot the latest and greatest. As an outfitter the average guy should use a modest arrow. They are much more forgiving. If I would not personally witness poor performance from rifles, bows, black powder guns and shotguns I would be more than happy to not voice an opinion. I hunt with aluminum shafted arrows and here we go......a recurve, no sights, and ceder shaft arrows. My compound comes in handy as our elk season coincides with the rut...so bow hunting to me is like duck hunting only I am calling in 800 lbs of bull who is spoiling for a fight. Now if I were a vice president of PSE bows then I would shoot carbon arrows ( Opps!!!! I helped get him his Big horn a few years ago). Where my advice comes in is for us other morons who do not hunt exclusively with bows. In todays bows they are taking the same turn as black powder...high tech sights, cams, releases, and other frills that a good bow hunter does not require. Every shot with a bow requires some kentucky windage unless you are trying to take a critter in perfectly calm weather with birds singing and sun shining. My experience has been critters move and scent stays down better in inclimate weather. And its easier to predict the wind and stay down wind of quarry. To end my rantings....Fred Bear used cedar arrows and a long bow or recurve. For us old guys some of the new fancy stuff is not necessary for good clean kills. I have not wounded a deer or elk.....well I have wounded all of them mortally....except for unique situations I have only seen a few big critters go down dead on impact. I want an arrow that cuts deep and wide. Slow is ok for a bow, point of impact is everything...
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Postby choclab » Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:01 pm

Debates are fun aren't they? :salude:

I agree with you Citori.....to a point. Fred Bear, Howard Hill, Pope and Young all used recurves. They are the God fathers of archery, we will probably not see anybody else like them in our life times. They used hand made cedar shafts and broadheads. Their skills where un-matched. Not everyone is Pappa Bear or Howard Hill, ect. ect. Most guys need all the advantages they can get. Here is a link you might not like.....but he says it better than I could. He amkes a ton of sense. It's all about the KE


http://www.bowsite.com/bowsite/features ... /index.cfm
"The rich....who are content to buy what they have not the skill to get by their own exertions, are the real enemies of game". Teddy Roosevelt
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Postby Citori12 » Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:04 pm

:getdown: I love reading things that are published....but no matter what you have to "cut" to kill something with a bow....energy is a mute point unless you want to shoot an arrow large enough to knock one off its feet.
I don't want to sound pompas but my physics are very good and its what I do for a living...but in the world of hunting and fishing we sometimes do not care about kenetic energy especially when we are talking about killing something with an arrow. Kenetic energy is a good thing...even BB guns have it. If you look at how an arrow actually gets released from a bow in slow motion a great deal of kenetic energy is wasted by the flexing of the arrow as you does the "S" curve around the bow limb. Carbon arrows are extremely suited for this..they are fast and accurate...but.....they do the same thing entering an animal which is not a good thing when you want that broadhead to "Cut" straight through....the arrow shaft flexes as it hits tissue as it does going around the bow limb. That is why carbon is highly accurate in compound bows. Aluminum and cedar are stiffer spined arrows....but that is why we match the spine of the arrow to the bow. They flex less going around the limb and also flex less hitting tissue. Thus they do not waver as they enter thier cutting zone. I am sure General Custer would have wished that the indians used carbon because maybe some of his men would have survived the arrow cuts.... :laughing: :toofunny: Kidding!!!!!!
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Postby thaner » Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:12 pm

Lots of good points and debates. I shot traditional for many years and now hi tech. The less equipment you have the better I say but the level of long range accuracy I like makes some equipment necessary.
The most important thing other than a good arrow and broad head for the job is a quiet bow. Don’t worry about speed, worry about getting your bow quiet. Put whiskers or some other thing on strings, cables, and accessories.

Fingers or release is personal preference and there are advantages to both but a critical issue if you are considering shooting fingers is if your bow is built for it. Shorter axel length bows and some cam types are not finger shooter friendly and most bows built in recent times are primarily for release shooters. If your bow is not built for a finger shooter go with the release. If you don’t shoot a lot and don’t have time to really work on your finger release use a mechanical release; it’s much easier to get consistent. Good shooting with fingers requires very consistent back tension and release. I prefer mech. release for max long-range accuracy. Don’t skimp and get a good quality dependable release.

I like the fall away rest now, but any full capture is a good one. I shoot the ripcord. It is a full capture drop away. I like aggressive helical for better spin and like the drop away for max clearance. If you go fingers you need to be looking at completely different rest set-ups. You should be looking at a flipper and a plunger to adjust for your finger release. A lot of people are trying to use the wrong rest when shooting fingers.

I use both one piece and hip quivers. I like on piece bow mount because when stand hunting I like to shoot without the quiver on. I like the hip quiver when the ground is open but not when there is a lot of cover to work through. For a bow mount I am shooting the one with the rubber mount base, can’t remember the name right off hand but it is very easy to put on an take off and very quit on the shot if it is mounted. Also helps nock down vibration.

I used to use a stabilizer now I shoot no stabilizer. I don’t need it for hunting and the balance of my bow is fine without one. It’s just one more thing to get loose and affect the shot and it adds weight.

I used to use a sling but now I don’t. One more thing to have a problem with and it’s slow to get into and get a shot off if you don’t have your hand in it all the time. A loose grip with touching finger tips is just fine.

I have tried several sights but like the 3-pin fiber optic with a round pin guard and fairly large size fibers and all the wraped fiber I can get. Small fibers are too fine for most close shots and low light. I use the largest peep I can get and then drill it out until I can peep the whole pin guard. I shot anchor point so I can shoot if I can see the pin guard centered in low light or not. Long range in good light I use the peep for best accuracy but short range in low light I just go anchor point. I set one pin for 15 yd. for close shots from tree stands where pinpoint accuracy is needed to get both longs and miss the spine. I set one for 25 yd for average shots and one for 40 for the longer ones. This year I went to a 5-pin just to have a couple for 55 and 65 yd for long range shooting work. I don’t take shots that far but the practice at that range really helps making those tough 35 yd. shots a slam-dunk. With 55 and 65 set pins they are far enough from my other pins not to cause confusion on close shots. I used the trophy ridge this year and it was great. I can shoot all legal hunting hours rain or shine and in the woods; it is critical that you can do this and the trophy ridge works good and has accessory light stick if your hunt is really in dark conditions.

I will never shoot anything but carbon. I shot aluminum for 20 years and just changed about 5 years ago. I heard so many bad things about the early carbons. That has all changed with the new larger shaft carbon arrows. Aluminum arrows bend too easy. Even very straight quality shafts bend a little after a few shots and loose consistency. Carbon stays consistent shot after shot. If you are after really big tough stuff you can get tough heavy carbon or carbon aluminum composites to do the job. I have carbons that have been shot thousands of time and shoot just as good as the first shot. I have carbons that have killed 6-8 deer; I loose count sometimes how many I kill with a good setup arrow. I have never killed more than two deer with alum. shaft before it gets a little bend and no longer performs to top accuracy.

I am a white tail hunter and hunt from tree stands and on the ground in heavy cover and open farm land and this is the stuff that works in all conditions and at all ranges for me. If I was shooting elk at close range in heavy timber I just may shoot one of my recurves, but skidish white tails at all ranges and conditions take top accuracy and a little speed doesn't hurt either.
Last edited by thaner on Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Smackaduck » Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:20 pm

Well said Thaner. :salude:
If they're dumb enough to be lured in by plastic you're really just doing them a favor.

Know your target before you pull the trigger.

Duck Hunting is ALL about the bag.
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Postby thaner » Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:46 pm

Kinda long winded, but it's like asking what gun, dog, boat, decoys, call........ do I need to go duck hunting. It could have been 6 or more posts easy.
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