AR or AK?

From the .22 to the mighty 50 caliber

Moderator: fowl_wishes

AR or AK?

Postby Gooseboy » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:13 am

Hey guys although i used to be against them im becoming more interested in tactical firearms. Which one do you guys think is the best? The AR-15 (or the fully auto M-16) or the AK-47? Or what do you think the best assault rifle is?
User avatar
Gooseboy
Banned
 
Posts: 4741
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:06 pm
Location: OK


Postby puddlerjumper » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:42 am

AR has MOA accuracy in certain rifles, that's it. It requires a lot of maintenance to stay operating, and is very finnicky and tight-fitting(That's why it's accurate). The AKS line of rifles, the originals, were made of sheet, and scrap metal, along with the only wood Mr. Kalishnikov had lying around. They had, and still have extremely loose tolerances, and that's why they are so reliable. You can literally fill up the receiver with sand and it still operate. This gun will not have it's reliability beaten in our life-time, it probably never will. Now, accuracy is a different story. Precision shooters don't like them. It all ties back in to having loose tolerances, and it gives each shot inconsistency. But, you can still hit a plate at 75-100 yards with all 30 rounds if you tried, so that is killing accuracy. They were built to kill the enemy on the battlefield, so they have the accuracy to do that.

AK hands down.
puddlerjumper
hunter
 
Posts: 696
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:04 am

Postby jjohnson_714 » Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:19 pm

yeah plus you are going to be spending around a grand for an ar-15... you are looking at only a couple hundred bucks for the ak-47....
User avatar
jjohnson_714
State Moderator
 
Posts: 2536
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:47 pm
Location: Coeur d'Alene

Postby WIDGEONATOR » Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:00 pm

GET A SEMI-AUTO .308 :yes:
WIDGEONATOR
hunter
 
Posts: 1796
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:09 pm
Location: SAN JOSE, CA

Postby Gooseboy » Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:08 pm

Yea i figured that was the main differnce puddle. Heres a cool pic of Kalashnikov and Eugene Stoner.

http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/photos/4.jpg
User avatar
Gooseboy
Banned
 
Posts: 4741
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:06 pm
Location: OK

Postby WIDGEONATOR » Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:18 pm

THIS IS MUCH BETTER THAN AN AK EVER THOUGHT OF BEING! :hammering:

USA ALL THE WAY! :yes:
http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod- ... cout.shtml
WIDGEONATOR
hunter
 
Posts: 1796
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:09 pm
Location: SAN JOSE, CA

Postby LaRedneck » Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:15 pm

The AK has more of a tumbleing affect when it his you so its more destructive as the AR will blow through you, just something to thank about.
THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED

YOU GOT A PERMIT TO ASK STUPID QUESTIONS LIKE THAT (TRACE ADKINS)

NRA
DU
NAHC
User avatar
LaRedneck
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 3671
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:52 am
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Postby Gooseboy » Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:51 pm

Ive also read that in "What everybody should know about War." That it gets in the body and spins to do alot of damage.
User avatar
Gooseboy
Banned
 
Posts: 4741
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:06 pm
Location: OK

Postby LaRedneck » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:19 pm

Thats what i was talking about when i said tumbleing, kind of like a 22 or a 38 rather than a 30-06 or a 7mag
THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED

YOU GOT A PERMIT TO ASK STUPID QUESTIONS LIKE THAT (TRACE ADKINS)

NRA
DU
NAHC
User avatar
LaRedneck
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 3671
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:52 am
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Postby Snaph » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:59 pm

LAredneck wrote:Thats what i was talking about when i said tumbleing, kind of like a 22 or a 38 rather than a 30-06 or a 7mag


OK I am confused. I was always told the the AR (.223 cal) was the caliber that tumbled and that made it lethal, and that is why we stayed with it. The AK-47 has a bullet size of 7.62 mm. that seems more prone to blast right through you than the .223, just from bullet mass alone. I don't know I am asking.
Snaph
hunter
 
Posts: 1699
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 8:27 pm

Postby Gooseboy » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:02 pm

I also could have got it mixed up. Lemme go get out the book.
User avatar
Gooseboy
Banned
 
Posts: 4741
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:06 pm
Location: OK

Postby LaRedneck » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:08 pm

We use M-16s and AR-15 which blast through which sometimes causes a problem when we attack and the "bad" guys use the AK's which hurt us more, go figure.
THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED

YOU GOT A PERMIT TO ASK STUPID QUESTIONS LIKE THAT (TRACE ADKINS)

NRA
DU
NAHC
User avatar
LaRedneck
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 3671
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:52 am
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Postby Gooseboy » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:10 pm

Ok here we go

The Yugoslavian-type hollow poing 7.62 AK-47 round begins to tumble AFTER IMPACT but is not as damaging as the M16A2 round.

The 5.56-millimeter M16A2 round begins to tumble WHEN IT STRIKES THE SKIN causing maximum damge.

Snaph i guess you were right.

(information taken from "What Every Person Should Know About War" by Chris Hedges.)
User avatar
Gooseboy
Banned
 
Posts: 4741
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:06 pm
Location: OK

Postby LaRedneck » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:17 pm

I don't know Chris Hedges but just today I was in a Combat Skills class and a TACP instructor told us the the M16 round blast throuhg and the AK tumbles.
THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED

YOU GOT A PERMIT TO ASK STUPID QUESTIONS LIKE THAT (TRACE ADKINS)

NRA
DU
NAHC
User avatar
LaRedneck
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 3671
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:52 am
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Postby LaRedneck » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:18 pm

I don't know Chris Hedges but just today I was in a Combat Skills class and a TACP instructor told us the the M16 round blast throuhg and the AK tumbles. Maybe it depends on the round that you use in the M16. But i know that the ones we use blast through.
THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED

YOU GOT A PERMIT TO ASK STUPID QUESTIONS LIKE THAT (TRACE ADKINS)

NRA
DU
NAHC
User avatar
LaRedneck
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 3671
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:52 am
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Postby Gooseboy » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:20 pm

Im pretty sure the 5.56 millimeter is the standard M16A2 Cartridge used by the military and we probably use the same type of round hollow points. Are you in the Military?
User avatar
Gooseboy
Banned
 
Posts: 4741
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:06 pm
Location: OK

Postby LaRedneck » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:23 pm

YES
THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED

YOU GOT A PERMIT TO ASK STUPID QUESTIONS LIKE THAT (TRACE ADKINS)

NRA
DU
NAHC
User avatar
LaRedneck
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 3671
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:52 am
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Postby Snaph » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:30 pm

LA I am not going to argue with an active military member on this. And I will trust you on it, and it was not my intent to argue. :thumbsup: I just wanted to know. I have shot both rifles, but, I never tested either one as far as ballistics goes. It's all good.
Snaph
hunter
 
Posts: 1699
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 8:27 pm

Postby Gooseboy » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:34 pm

Sorry if i came across like i was arguing if i did i didnt mean to.
User avatar
Gooseboy
Banned
 
Posts: 4741
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:06 pm
Location: OK

Postby LaRedneck » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:34 pm

Read this these are friends of mine and very smart. Read V42's tread.

http://www.selfdefenseforums.com/forums ... -2306.html
THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED

YOU GOT A PERMIT TO ASK STUPID QUESTIONS LIKE THAT (TRACE ADKINS)

NRA
DU
NAHC
User avatar
LaRedneck
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 3671
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:52 am
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Postby Gooseboy » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:02 am

Sounds good to me. Once again sorry if i came across pompously i did not mean to. I really didnt know which one tumbled more i was just writing the information in this book which could be false. Thanks!
User avatar
Gooseboy
Banned
 
Posts: 4741
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:06 pm
Location: OK

Postby WIDGEONATOR » Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:18 pm

I thought the Geneva convention prevented the use of hollow points. I thought all military rounds are FMJ? What happened too "It takes two men to carry one wounded man off of the field".

The tumbling occurs when a bullet falls below subsonic speed. There is a differnce between a bullet tumbling in flight and a bullet tumbling inside the target. The AK is probably more prone to tumbling in flight while the AR is more prone to tumble inside the target. Of course the AR bullet will also tumble in flight at large distances when it falls below subsonic speed. This happens because of air turbulence behind the bullet. :thumbsup:
WIDGEONATOR
hunter
 
Posts: 1796
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:09 pm
Location: SAN JOSE, CA

Postby LaRedneck » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:45 pm

Nobody said we used hollows, I have never seen them or use them in a fire fight, If we need something stronger then we use armour percing rounds.
THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED

YOU GOT A PERMIT TO ASK STUPID QUESTIONS LIKE THAT (TRACE ADKINS)

NRA
DU
NAHC
User avatar
LaRedneck
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 3671
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:52 am
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Postby mallardman77 » Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:14 pm

There's a great article on Mikhail Kalashnikov and his assult rifle in this months edition of field & stream.





:salude:
Is it september the 8th yet???

Image
User avatar
mallardman77
hunter
 
Posts: 912
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:26 pm
Location: manitoba, Canada

Postby Gooseboy » Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:49 pm

Yea i read that one pretty interesting guy, only i got that issue a month or two ago? I bought ten issues from a fundraiser though so i probably dont get the right order.
The group ended up with 420 birds.

(\__/) This is my bunny. There
(='.'=) are many like him but this
(")_(")one is mine. Cut and paste the bunny into your signature to help the bunny gain world domination !
User avatar
Gooseboy
Banned
 
Posts: 4741
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:06 pm
Location: OK

Next

Return to Rifle and Handgun forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest