Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

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Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby finalflighttx » Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:56 pm

Got a question folks I live in East Texas and I have access to a pond about 2 acers in size that has the potential to have the water level regulated by about 2 feet or so. I was just wondering if any of you all were going to plant a food source that would reseed in the fall for drawing and holding ducks to hunt and to just watch what could you plant to do such a job? Thanks for all of the help you all havent let me down yet! :thumbsup:
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Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby Gizzle86 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:50 pm

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Re: Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby Small Block » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:02 pm

Bingo, Lower the water level in the spring then plant the Millet and some soybeans. Let the grain mature and just before season pump up the water. Take an extra gun.
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Re: Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby finalflighttx » Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:03 pm

cool but here in east texas we have a little problem we call Hogs and I wonder if the beavers that are in the pond will try and cut down the millet stalks any thoughts on these problems? the beaver can be controlled but the pigs not so much we have actually had pigs rip up electric fence that are designed to keep cows in we have pics of some pigs over 300 pounds! do you think they would mess with something like a wild rice or wild millet?
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Re: Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby Small Block » Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:50 am

They sure will mess with it. Sounds like you need to do a hunt swap. I do own a rifle also. Whats the limit on hogs where you live? No limit here in Missouri. Kill em and give em to a poor farm.
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Re: Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby TXHunter96 » Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:22 pm

@Small Block.. No limits. Just limited by how many rounds you have..

Where in east tx are you? If you figure out what ya wanna do but need some help, let me know and I'd be happy to help you. (maybe throw a little hunt in it for me) :thumbsup:
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Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby Gizzle86 » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:31 pm

I can to the same im in Tyler once a month.
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Re: Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby finalflighttx » Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:43 am

If I got this thing to work with my uncle and we got the ducks in there what are the odds of guideing some hunts out here would it be worth it to you all for say $200.00 a gun :huh:? What do you all think? My goal is to do some guiding out of this hole but just dont know where to start even spread it to lake fork and a couple of the smaller lakes that we hunt here in east texas again just want to know what you all would think the hunts would be worth per gun?
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Re: Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby m.teeter » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:51 pm

finalflighttx wrote:If I got this thing to work with my uncle and we got the ducks in there what are the odds of guideing some hunts out here would it be worth it to you all for say $200.00 a gun :huh:? What do you all think? My goal is to do some guiding out of this hole but just dont know where to start even spread it to lake fork and a couple of the smaller lakes that we hunt here in east texas again just want to know what you all would think the hunts would be worth per gun?


My only question is... you don't know what to plant to entice the ducks yet you want to guide hunts on a small pond? As for the price per gun I would put it at, let's see, about $20.00 per gun. You would probably guide at least 25 hunters per day, everyday throughout the season and shoot the hole out within the first 2 days. Make em pay when booking and you'll probably make a lot of money. At least for the first year.
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Re: Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby finalflighttx » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:55 am

WOW Not was I was going for but it just goes to show how people think this is to be just part of about a 500 acre management plan that would take a few years to get going even though we have a moist soil crop going now just wasn't sure what would mature if the pond got backed up and the food plot was submerged if it would kill it and if it would grow back after reseeding just really didnt want to waste money and labor on a plot that wouldnt work! Not to mention that the state of TX wont let us hunt over a grain feild or any food plot for ducks until after it naturally reseeds after the first season! We are not habitat flatts by no means just thought that I could eventually guide on this property and try to use that money to do more with it as there is about another 200 acers south of it that seperates us by a river that can be leased and managed for the right amount of dough. So my " TINY POND" :lol3: is only part of a bigger puzzle that could be a big help in taking the pressure off of the feild that we have planted after mid season when the food is gone! Thanks for the post reply I'm no money hungy you know what that just wants to make a name for himself I just want to have an oppritunity to help others have a good experience in this sport that we all love! Without new people in the sport our sport dies our club is deticated to ensure that anyone with a thought or question can have it answered without ridicule and can learn from our experience when they may have little to share themselves. This is also the point of what we do here on forums to help each other and boost ourselves up I will help anyone any way I can in a possitive and courtious manner!
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Re: Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby Bill Herian » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:16 am

Are you a licensed guide with insurance?

These are are probably bigger considerations that what to plant.

I apologize if you are, the post just dosent read that way.
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Re: Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby finalflighttx » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:57 am

Not yet but I am working with some folks to try to get the classes and training that I would like to have to make it possible but with a full time job and a wife that dosent get why I am doing any of this its going to be eaiser said than done! :lol3: I have a buddy in guide school in south texas he will be our test dummy to see just what we are going to do about all of that the insurance is CRAZY EXPENSIVE!!!!! If your not going to have a great place to hunt that can promise steady buisness then insurance will eat up any profit that you might make but again for my part I just want to get this place decked out and see just what we can do with the property that we have and build on it from there! Profit is again not our goal expantion and habitat is! We hunted with some guys last weekend who have never thrown a duck decoy before and they after a box of shells a peice :lol3: finnaly shot a limit of teal and now they are Quack heads for life! This is the reason we want to do something epic that is good for the ducks and good for the sport. Our lakes are over populated and often hunted wrong and we cant help what others do but if we have our own place we can. Thanks for the post and hope you have a great season this year!!! :thumbsup:
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Re: Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby foxtrot » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:32 am

I know it was in the post above but, you cant hunt over millet until its been there for a year.
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Re: Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby foxtrot » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:32 am

I know it was in the post above but, you cant hunt over millet until its been there for a year.
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Re: Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby PowDuck » Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:05 am

foxtrot wrote:you cant hunt over millet until its been there for a year.


What? I haven't seen that in the regulations. Can you give me a reference to look at it myself? I hunt on and manage a ranch for my boss. Our warden friend has never said anything about that.
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Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby foxtrot » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:00 am

BAITING
A hunter MAY hunt migratory game birds including waterfowl, coots and cranes:
• onoroverstandingcrops,standingflooded
crops and flooded harvested crops;
• at anytime over natural vegetation that
has been manipulated. Natural vegeta- tion does not include planted millet. However, planted millet that grows on its own in subsequent years after the plant-ing is considered natural vegetation;

You might be able to explain to a judge you thought that meant as soon as it reseeds. I wouldn't want to play semantics with a judge though.
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Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby foxtrot » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:02 am

Double post.
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Re: Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby PowDuck » Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:34 am

Wow. Page six of the regs booklet.
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Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby Mojo281 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:35 pm

You CAN plant and CAN hunt over millet, you just CAN'T manipulate it unless it's voluntary growth (regrows a year after planting, at which then you can shred it)!!!

Planting millet is common practice for waterfowl in Texas bc it's easy to plant and requires little to no maintenance. Just disc soils in late July, broadcast either Japanese or Browntop millet seed, and flood when plants mature...

Hogs love millet and they will completely decimate your crop, as will deer and cattle! An easy alternative when soils stay relatively damp year round is to broadcast Pennsylvania smartweed seed in the fall. Smartweed takes a full year (a freeze actually) to germinate, but will not be harmed by unintended flooding, and hogs and cattle will leave it alone for the most part!

It's tough to manage wetland projects when you have a hog problem in general... They tend to root damp soils regardless if it's planted or not!!

Most guided duck hunts in Texas average $150 per gun, but that's only if you have ample wetlands to run hunts week after week and have the ability to manage gun pressure... Most properties that hold waterfowl all season long have a rest area where birds are not hunted, and is often the biggest/best section of wetlands on the place.

Two acres of millet or smartweed is hardly enough to maintain a huntable population of ducks!! Ducks' diets vary throughout the season and different species prefer different food types. All bc you plant for them, doesn't mean they will come!

If you ask me, you have a LONG ways to go before you should even consider running an outfit!! Feel free to PM me and I'll let you pick my brain on the subject...

Best of luck,
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Re: Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby finalflighttx » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:07 pm

Fox Trot the State of Texas in the waterfowl hunting guide 2012 sereis states that it is Illegal to hunt over any planted crop that has been intentionally planted for hunting waterfowl. However if it is a free growing crop that is not altered to improve growth or seed dispurtion of the crop or if it is planted as silage or for the purpose of feeding livestock then it is leagal to hunt over without natural regrowth. This is why we are using "Wild" Millet "Wild" Rice and Smart weeds for our plots these are all regrowing crops that wont have to be altered come next season. I am glad that you as well as others keep these things in mind due to the simple fact that there are those who believe that they are above the law and do as they want and many times cause guys like you and me to loose our freedom to duck hunt in and on public waters. I am proud to announce that we have the banks of our pond clear and ready for seed and we now have roughly 30 acres of flooded green timber ( a pure accident thank you beavers!) that was unintentional but it is covered in ducks cant wait to hit it up after the break! Thanks for all of the replies!
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Re: Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby Mojo281 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:52 am

finalflighttx wrote:The State of Texas in the waterfowl hunting guide 2012 sereis states that it is Illegal to hunt over any planted crop that has been intentionally planted for hunting waterfowl. However if it is a free growing crop that is not altered to improve growth or seed dispurtion of the crop or if it is planted as silage or for the purpose of feeding livestock then it is leagal to hunt over without natural regrowth.


This statement is incorrect!! Yall might want to read the Texas Waterfowl Digest one more time...

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_bk_k0700_1014.pdf

Page 6 clearly states:
A hunter MAY hunt migratory game birds including waterfowl, coots and cranes:
• on or over standing crops, standing flooded crops and flooded harvested crops;
• at any time over natural vegetation that has been manipulated. Natural vegetation does not include planted millet. However, planted millet that grows on its own in subsequent years after the planting is considered natural vegetation;
• on or over a normal soil stabilization practice;
• on or over lands or areas where seeds or grains have been scattered solely as a result of a normal agricultural practice,
EXCEPT waterfowl and cranes MAY NOT be hunted where grain or other feed has been distributed or scattered as the result of:
• pre-harvest manipulation of an agricutural crop; or
• livestock feeding;
• over crops or natural vegetation where grain has been inadvertently scattered as a result of entering or leaving a
hunting area, placing decoys or retrieving downed birds;
• using natural vegetation or crops to conceal a blind, provided that if crops are used to conceal a blind, no grain or other feed is exposed, deposited, distributed or scattered in the process.

A hunter MAY NOT:
• hunt migratory birds with the aid of bait, or on or over any baited area;
• hunt over any baited area until 10 days after all baiting materials have been removed;
• hunt waterfowl or cranes over manipulated planted millet in the first year after planting;
• hunt waterfowl or cranes over crops that have been manipulated, unless the manipulation is a normal agricultural post-harvesting manipulation in accordance with official recommendations of State Extension Specialists of the Cooperative Extension Service of the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

This simply means that you can hunt waterfowl over crops that have been planted for agriculture or for waterfowl... You can plant millet and hunt over it, but you CANNOT manipulate millet unless it is natural growth!! It also clearly states that you cannot run cattle through the plants, as it will scatter grains which is considered manipulating the crop.

TPWD's definition of manipulation, page 3:
MANIPULATION: The alteration of natural vegetation or agricultural crops, including but not limited to mowing, shredding, discing, rolling, chopping, trampling, flattening, burning and herbicide treatments. Manipulation does not include the distributing or scattering of grain, seed or other feed after removal from or storage on the field where grown.

No one here is claiming to be above the law... However, some might UNDERSTAND the law more than others!!
Last edited by Mojo281 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby agengo02 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:11 pm

Mojo281 wrote:
finalflighttx wrote:The State of Texas in the waterfowl hunting guide 2012 sereis states that it is Illegal to hunt over any planted crop that has been intentionally planted for hunting waterfowl. However if it is a free growing crop that is not altered to improve growth or seed dispurtion of the crop or if it is planted as silage or for the purpose of feeding livestock then it is leagal to hunt over without natural regrowth.


This statement is incorrect!! Yall might want to read the Texas Waterfowl Digest one more time...

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_bk_k0700_1014.pdf

Page 6 clearly states:
A hunter MAY hunt migratory game birds including waterfowl, coots and cranes:
• on or over standing crops, standing flooded crops and flooded harvested crops;
• at any time over natural vegetation that has been manipulated. Natural vegetation does not include planted millet. However, planted millet that grows on its own in subsequent years after the planting is considered natural vegetation;
• on or over a normal soil stabilization practice;
• on or over lands or areas where seeds or grains have been scattered solely as a result of a normal agricultural practice,
EXCEPT waterfowl and cranes MAY NOT be hunted where grain or other feed has been distributed or scattered as the result of:
• pre-harvest manipulation of an agricutural crop; or
• livestock feeding;
• over crops or natural vegetation where grain has been inadvertently scattered as a result of entering or leaving a
hunting area, placing decoys or retrieving downed birds;
• using natural vegetation or crops to conceal a blind, provided that if crops are used to conceal a blind, no grain or other feed is exposed, deposited, distributed or scattered in the process.

A hunter MAY NOT:
• hunt migratory birds with the aid of bait, or on or over any baited area;
• hunt over any baited area until 10 days after all baiting materials have been removed;
• hunt waterfowl or cranes over manipulated planted millet in the first year after planting;
• hunt waterfowl or cranes over crops that have been manipulated, unless the manipulation is a normal agricultural post-harvesting manipulation in accordance with official recommendations of State Extension Specialists of the Cooperative Extension Service of the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

This simply means that you can hunt waterfowl over crops that have been planted for agriculture or for waterfowl... You can plant millet and hunt over it, but you CANNOT manipulate millet unless it is natural growth!! It also clearly states that you cannot run cattle through the plants, as it will scatter grains which is considered manipulating the crop.

TPWD's definition of manipulation, page 3:
MANIPULATION: The alteration of natural vegetation or agricultural crops, including but not limited to mowing, shredding, discing, rolling, chopping, trampling, flattening, burning and herbicide treatments. Manipulation does not include the distributing or scattering of grain, seed or other feed after removal from or storage on the field where grown.

No one here is claiming to be above the law... However, some might UNDERSTAND the law more than others!!



Thanks for posting the regs up with explanation as I have always wondered how people hunt over first year millet legally. Reading through though, it seems that you CAN hunt over first year millet as long as it has not been manipulated. Per the posted definition of manipulation, it seems that even walking/wading through, sending your dog through, and setting/picking up decoys through the first year millet is illegal.

I hunt public only so I don't ever have to worry about it, but I have always wondered as to what exactly is legal or not. Of course I may be completely wrong.

:beer:
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Re: Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby Mojo281 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:33 pm

agengo02 wrote:Thanks for posting the regs up with explanation as I have always wondered how people hunt over first year millet legally. Reading through though, it seems that you CAN hunt over first year millet as long as it has not been manipulated. Per the posted definition of manipulation, it seems that even walking/wading through, sending your dog through, and setting/picking up decoys through the first year millet is illegal.

I hunt public only so I don't ever have to worry about it, but I have always wondered as to what exactly is legal or not. Of course I may be completely wrong.

:beer:


I think the key terms are inadvertently scattered ... Being that the definition of inadvertently is "in careless manner." From discussions I have had with Game Wardens, one path in and one path out is okay! Running around and knocking it all down would be illegal... I will admit that this is a grey area in the law.

The State of Oklahoma drops millet seed on alot of rivers and lakes via airplane... I can't imagine them being able to do that if it were breaking Federal laws!!
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Re: Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby agengo02 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:48 pm

Mojo281 wrote:
agengo02 wrote:Thanks for posting the regs up with explanation as I have always wondered how people hunt over first year millet legally. Reading through though, it seems that you CAN hunt over first year millet as long as it has not been manipulated. Per the posted definition of manipulation, it seems that even walking/wading through, sending your dog through, and setting/picking up decoys through the first year millet is illegal.

I hunt public only so I don't ever have to worry about it, but I have always wondered as to what exactly is legal or not. Of course I may be completely wrong.

:beer:


I think the key terms are inadvertently scattered ... Being that the definition of inadvertently is "in careless manner." From discussions I have had with Game Wardens, one path in and one path out is okay! Running around and knocking it all down would be illegal... I will admit that this is a grey area in the law.

The State of Oklahoma drops millet seed on alot of rivers and lakes via airplane... I can't imagine them being able to do that if it were breaking Federal laws!!


Ok I understand it now. For some reason I wasn't quite seeing the separations from your post so I went to the provided link and saw everything laid out. Glad to get the correct clarification thanks.

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Re: Man Made Duck Paridise!!!

Postby Mojo281 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:31 pm

agengo02 wrote: Ok I understand it now. For some reason I wasn't quite seeing the separations from your post so I went to the provided link and saw everything laid out. Glad to get the correct clarification thanks.

Where abouts in SETX are you? I'm in Ned.


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