pellets or bullets ?

Trap, Skeet, Sporting Clays; pistol/rifle target shooting, to plinking cans with a bb gun.

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pellets or bullets ?

Postby Sagebrush » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:10 pm

Just woundering which you might shoot the most ?

I do upland,rabbit,dove, ducks and geese but I also shoot 22-250,270.30-06,38 and 357.......(the 22's don't count)

Trap eats up a lot of shells as does hunting but I also send a lot of bullets down range developing loads for accuracy and
getting velositys with my chrony, on both types of ammo.

Shotgun or metalic ?
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Re: pellets or bullets ?

Postby derbyacresbob » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:43 pm

I have four Remington 700s in 223 Rem, 22-250, 243 Win and 260 Rem, a Tikka T-3 223AI, a 223 Rem RRA AR-15 and a D-Tech 243 WSSM AR-15.

I have a Beretta semi auto, a Rem 11-87 and a Browning Ultra XS Sporting Clays O/U.

I shoot way more shells through my Browning Sporting Clays O/U in a year than all the rest of my guns combined.
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Re: pellets or bullets ?

Postby waterfowlhunter » Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:38 am

I run about 300 rounds thru the shotguns every month. Only about 1000 rounds thru the pistols a full YEAR and probably a couple of thousand thru the rifles every year. I am a shotgun kind of person for hunting (big and small game) and shooting. I used to shoot long range competitions with open sights with a national match M14 and went thru thousands of rounds a month it seemed. but i lost intrest in that and the time / $$$$$$ it took to stay tuned. I only have 9 rifles left and being in a shotgun only Zone I rely on my Muzzle loader, Browning A-bolt slug gun and Savage Bolt slug gun so even for big game most of my practice is with the shotguns. But I still love the way my 300WSM with 180gr BT's @ 3000fps 4' from the muzzle put a deer down in its tracks even at over 300 yds. And can print .5" @ 100 yds :biggrin:
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Re: pellets or bullets ?

Postby 3200 man » Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:08 am

My 6.5 / 284 on a Sako L 57 with a Douglas air gage 8 1/2 " twist will do the same , but at 7 to 8 hundred yds .
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Re: pellets or bullets ?

Postby waterfowlhunter » Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:42 am

3200 man wrote:My 6.5 / 284 on a Sako L 57 with a Douglas air gage 8 1/2 " twist will do the same , but at 7 to 8 hundred yds .



I bet it cost more than $499... :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:
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Re: pellets or bullets ?

Postby 3200 man » Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:24 am

Well , you got that right . When hunting the wide open Western states a shot at 500 yds is very possible as long as the wind
isn't to bad . The name of the game is accuracy , if you can put it in the curly hairs at extended ranges it's an advantage ! A
good scope and a accurate range finder is step 1 and 2 before the shot , believe me !
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Re: pellets or bullets ?

Postby waterfowlhunter » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:33 am

3200 man wrote:Well , you got that right . When hunting the wide open Western states a shot at 500 yds is very possible as long as the wind
isn't to bad . The name of the game is accuracy , if you can put it in the curly hairs at extended ranges it's an advantage ! A
good scope and a accurate range finder is step 1 and 2 before the shot , believe me !



I have made many of those long shots with the A-bolt 300WSM with no worry at all. the Ziess scope cost me 3 times what the gun did and in reality my VX-3 is just as good a scope at under 1/2 the cost. when I was shooting open sights, 600 yds was no issue at all, add a scope and it makes it so much easier. I have my ballistic charts for my reloads on the side of the stock for most conditions. but now that I am back in MI I can easily keep my shots in the 300 or less range. My dad, for some unknown reason, has decided to buy a 338 lapua. what He will ever use it for is beyond me, I would rather have the 50BMG byself :lol3:
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Re: pellets or bullets ?

Postby 3200 man » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:30 am

Here out west , long shots are common . Knowing your gun is capeable is a given , by it's caliber and by benching it at the
range , but elevation and wind takes experience to shoot long shots . Some people can and others talk about it and wish they
could . Fellas that have good hunting experience , will get as close as they can and put it in the curly hairs .
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Re: pellets or bullets ?

Postby ajmorell » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:54 pm

Unfortunately I haven't been shooting nearly as much the last 2 years as I was the 3 years prior, moving and getting adjusted took it's toll on the amount of rounds I put down range. The plan next year is to get back involved in shooting sporting clays and get my ass back to work on load development for my 30-06, I need to get a good elk load worked out and figure out what it's doing out to 3-400 yds.
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Re: pellets or bullets ?

Postby 3200 man » Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:26 am

Most hunters suffer accuracy problems while shooting Magnum guns , not because the gun can't shoot straight but , the
shooter can't handel the recoil . The only way a hunter can fine-tune his loads and gun , is by putting rounds down the barrel ,
manageing his trigger pull and allowing his mind to relax to make the shot with a good gun rest .
Most stardard calibers will shoot and kill as far as Most shooters can shoot accurately and being able to stay in the gun is
more important than ,How Big the Case is or How much Powder it holds .
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Re: pellets or bullets ?

Postby apexhunter » Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:36 am

I'll burn through a couple thousand rounds of pistol ammo with ease shooting targets and simulated tactical stuff. When working new loads for my rifle(s) I'll go through 100+ rounds of each with several small "batches" starting low and working up to find the sweet spot of my gun then load and shoot several more of the good ones for longer range verification. After I find the pet load recipe I'll stick with it until something else comes along. I'm going to switch to the new CFE-223 pushing Berger 168gr VLD hunting bullets as my primary deer rifle loads after this season and will be going back through the process again so another 100+/- rounds will be in order (I've messed with some factory loads with Bergers and love their performance but I have several rounds loaded with ballistic tips I need to use up first).

Above and beyond that is several hundred rounds of clays, bird hunting and duck hunting per year. I used to shoot 1,000 rounds per month shooting clays and trap but don't do that quite as much these days.
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Re: pellets or bullets ?

Postby ajmorell » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:47 pm

3200 man wrote:Most hunters suffer accuracy problems while shooting Magnum guns , not because the gun can't shoot straight but , the
shooter can't handel the recoil . The only way a hunter can fine-tune his loads and gun , is by putting rounds down the barrel ,
manageing his trigger pull and allowing his mind to relax to make the shot with a good gun rest .
Most stardard calibers will shoot and kill as far as Most shooters can shoot accurately and being able to stay in the gun is
more important than ,How Big the Case is or How much Powder it holds .


I agree. Rather than step up to a magnum gun that shoots a little flatter and faster I'd rather just put enough rounds through my -06 to understand the ballistics and be comfortable shooting at that distance, even if it means 2' of holdover at 400yds. And let's not forget that shooting at 400 yards off a bench is nothing like shooting at 400 yards prone off of a b-pod or sitting off of stick in the field with your adrenaline pumping.
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Re: pellets or bullets ?

Postby 3200 man » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:09 pm

Shooting a hunting rifle to make it accurate takes a calm day with the sun at your back ,a balanced load that your gun likes
and a quiet mind with a slow heartrate . Now , you have a group you're confident with and by this I mean , you are sure you
can make the shot . With a animal standing 350 yds up hill or down hill and a slite wind blowing through the canyon , you forgot
that you are at 9000 ft elevation , so where does your shot hit ? Not where you're aiming , so experience shooting at longer
ranges has alot to do with , how successful you are or it might give you more practice at tracking a wounded animal ?
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Re: pellets or bullets ?

Postby waterfowlhunter » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:33 pm

3200 man wrote:Shooting a hunting rifle to make it accurate takes a calm day with the sun at your back ,a balanced load that your gun likes
and a quiet mind with a slow heartrate . Now , you have a group you're confident with and by this I mean , you are sure you
can make the shot . With a animal standing 350 yds up hill or down hill and a slite wind blowing through the canyon , you forgot
that you are at 9000 ft elevation , so where does your shot hit ? Not where you're aiming , so experience shooting at longer
ranges has alot to do with , how successful you are or it might give you more practice at tracking a wounded animal ?



Where I hunt it is hundreds of yards of flat lever fields. so no canyons to deal with and no elevation. I actually practice long shots in th esame fields I hunt in. And Shoot in differnet wind conditions which definately educates you on POI. I just like knowing I can take the shot if necessary. Most of the bear and deer (Coyotes too) I have taken were within 35 yds. I can take deer every night out my daughters bedroom window If I wanted to. Aparently they like my grass better than the neighbors :biggrin:
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Re: pellets or bullets ?

Postby 3200 man » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:51 am

I can see you live and have a Great place to hunt and with your ability to test loads right at home ,I envy you .
I hunted with some old boys in Colorado one year that shot Rem. 742's , I thought these fellas were out of their
league in the wide open spaces . With normal shots of over 200 yds at Mule Deer , I didn't think their equipment
was up to the task . As we organized the hunt , they chose to hunt the darkest timber on the hillside ,which made
me happy as hell . When the hunt was over , they had the largest Bucks killed out of their group . I've hunted alot
of country , 7 western states and I like to spot animals at long distances , then plan a stalk to get withend shooting
distance , sometimes I can get really close and other times I have to make a shot across canyons ,up or down ,with
wind and at Alpine elevations where it's hard the breathe , so a good rest aim is paramount with a accurate rifle .
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Re: pellets or bullets ?

Postby Sagebrush » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:24 am

All that speed and recoil is not really needed..............here are some of my "Target loads"
that work for deer at 400 yards.


.270
130gr 53gr imr4831@2600 400yds@1019 ft/lb energy
140gr 48gr imr 4064@2710 400yds@1225ft/lb

30-06
165gr 55gr imr4831@2530 400yds@1209ft/lb


Ah yes, playing "Peek a boo" in the "Quakie Aspens" , that is a favorite game out here in Nevada.
Open sights is the way to go if you can do it...............heck I even took one with my stock 6" S&W
mod 19 357 mag with a 160gr Speer. That Buck made the mistake of taking a 2nd look befor taking off
after getting out of its bed.
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Re: pellets or bullets ?

Postby waterfowlhunter » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:43 am

[quote="Sagebrush"]All that speed and recoil is not really needed..............here are some of my "Target loads"
that work for deer at 400 yards.

I completely agree that magnum power is not necessary, But I have confidence in my 300wsm and like knowing that if I do hit bone at any range I would shoot there will still be a complete pass thru. And at 500yds I still have around 1750 ft lb of energy to work with. :biggrin:'

My 300 WSM is a baby compared to my shotgun with slugs or even magnum steel shot. I had a model 70 in 458 Win mag and even that was not a problem to shoot. I would say that my slug guns have more recoil than any rifle I have ever fired. And I will never again fire a 3.5" turkey load :crying:

My son started hunting at 12 with his grandfathers 7mm rem mag and 10 years later is still using it with no complaints about recoil.

But I hunt turkey with 2-3/4" game loads due to the recoil of the factory turkey loads. :biggrin:
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Re: pellets or bullets ?

Postby Sagebrush » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:20 am

You want some recoil?

A 12ga 3 dram 1 1/8 oz 2 3/4" load has 17.4 ft/lbs of recoil......................
with a 1 1/2oz payload at 1330 fps the recoil is up to 39.9 ft/lbs of recoil.............
sort of like a 375 H&H !!
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Re: pellets or bullets ?

Postby waterfowlhunter » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:40 pm

Sagebrush wrote:You want some recoil?

A 12ga 3 dram 1 1/8 oz 2 3/4" load has 17.4 ft/lbs of recoil......................
with a 1 1/2oz payload at 1330 fps the recoil is up to 39.9 ft/lbs of recoil.............
sort of like a 375 H&H !!



Try that with 2oz at 1300 fps turkey loads, I have and that was the first load that the recoil Ever bothered me.
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Re: pellets or bullets ?

Postby 3200 man » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:00 pm

Sage ,

That list of rifle loads with IMR powder and the Buck with the pistol . Reminded me of a hunt in Northern Nevada , I
was on the otherside of a canyon watching some Bucks in the trees below me hideing from this hunter side-hilling down to
them . I put the Benoc's on the hunter ,because I couldn't see a rifle being carried . Seeing he was carrying a pistol on his chest
I said ,this is going to be fun to watch . As the hunter got to the first tree ,he pulled out this gun about 18" long , rested it
on a branch and as the Bucks started to walk up the hill above the trees , I hear it go off and the Biggest Buck in the bunch
drops .I said to myself , that shot must of been 175 yds . I walked down to the fella , I told him how great a shot that was and
he showed me this 35 Herit with a 14 " barrel . That Buck was 28" and the shooter had put it about 3" above the Curley Hairs .

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Re: pellets or bullets ?

Postby Sagebrush » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:30 pm

Thompson pistols are a nice hunting unit with all kinds of ammo/shell selections and barrel lengths for
all kinds of shooting needs but I tend to think of them as a short rifle rather than a pistol.

To me a pistol (revolver) goes from a 1 7/8" snub nose ,up to a 8 inch barrel , I don't know if any of the
new Auto's have barrels longer than 6 inches or not..............never know with all the new stuff coming out.
I stopped reading gun magazines about three years ago,so I'm not up on all the new stuff out there.

That had to be fun to watch that hunt in and see how things turned out.......... I have watched hunters do the same
thing while scoping the mountains in Nevada with my spotting scope. If they shoot, it is funny how long it takes to hear the shots or maybe not if there is enough wind or noise in the area. Another amazing thing is how much better one sees with
a spotting scope. One time I was working south of Carson City and parked on the side of 395 and at lunch time I broke out the
20x40 and glassed the east side of the sierras that were between the south end of Tahoe and Cave rock. With the naked eye you just saw the mountain,trees and dirt but with the glass, I found a whole hurd of cattle grazing 2/3rds of the way up the mountain.
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Re: pellets or bullets ?

Postby 3200 man » Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:30 pm

It's funny you say that , with useing your eyes instead of your legs to find the Deer .I have 54 seasons under my belt and
it's only been the last 10 or 12 seasons that I've slowed down and really glassed areas . It's amazing what you can see if you
train your eyes to look at a hillside and pickout Deer laying down in the brush . It's also a lot of fun !

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Re: pellets or bullets ?

Postby Sagebrush » Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:04 pm

My Father had a deed club that he took me to when I was young and the old Italians at the St. Helena Calif
club shot 30 rem and 35 rem autos and even a old 30/40 Krag! The heavy round nose did not defect of the limbs and branches as mush as the fast spitzer bullets of the newer super fast modern loads at 3,000 fps plus.
In that hilly country with all the buck brush, they would look for "FEET" at the bottom of the cover as they drove slowy up the dirt roads................... Guess there is more than one way to skin a cat?? !!
Most shots were at or under 100 yards, only 1 out of 10 shots would ever be at 200 yards if you were lucky to have a clear spot without any "Wood" in the way.

Just because you spot deer and make a sneak on them, does not mean they will still be there when to top the rim or come around the corner................Many a "Old Timer" has been gone when I got there..............just a slight noise,wind change
or other deer or animals can mess you up............still a fun game.
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