Question about legality for Brian and Pat

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Question about legality for Brian and Pat

Postby Pete-pec » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:13 am

Can you clarify a question that may or may not have come up? Can a bird be gifted to a taxidermist, then that same taxidermist gift it to a client to replace a clients bird that may have been distressed? In other words, can he get a bird gifted to him (the taxidermist), then gift it to his client, and mount that same bird?

Hey, I'm not saying taxidermists wont/don't replace a pin-feathered wood duck with one they have in their freezer, but is it legal?

The reason I ask the question, is I've seen it posted here before, and I usually mend the post to be worded differently, even if the intent may stay the same, and send a PM letting the person know I modified their post.

Please let me know what you know. I see the post for the need for a customer bird all the time (especially on taxidermy.net, and I'm quite positive that although it surly happens, it is indeed illegal.
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Re: Question about legality for Brian and Pat

Postby The Waterfowler » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:58 am

50 CFR 20 Subpart J section b. states. " No person shall purchase, sell, barter or offer to purchase, sell or barter mounted specimens of migratory game birds taken under the authority of this part." I know of several taxidermist that have paid the price for mounting birds not taken by the client or not provided by them as either shot by the client or gifted to the client by a friend. The taxidermist can't act as a broker the way it has been explained to me by a guy with a badge and a gun. A simple call to the USF&W enforcement or code personel could get you a more plausible and better explanation.
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Re: Question about legality for Brian and Pat

Postby Pete-pec » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:00 am

Thanks Pat!
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Re: Question about legality for Brian and Pat

Postby Gaston » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:58 pm

The key to any and all of this is "gift" meaning no money transferred for the bird. You can gift a bird and as long as the receiver pays exact shipping and there is proper documentation as to where the bird was legally obtained and to whom the bird is legally being gifted.
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Re: Question about legality for Brian and Pat

Postby sprigpig1 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:41 pm

A bit off topic but in the same ball park.... I saw a guy selling "twinkies" on eBay for sixty something dollars or something like that, but these "twinkies" just so happen to come with a "free" mounted duck... Lol!! Loop hole? Itiocracy or just plain genius?
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Re: Question about legality for Brian and Pat

Postby Pete-pec » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:01 pm

Gaston, I would have to ask you this question then. This is the exact same thing done slightly different.

Could you shoot a bufflehead, mount it, then sell it for the exact same price that you charge a customer for a mounted bird that they shot instead? You are saying that you are gifting the mount yet you charge a fee to mount it. That's a slippery slope, and I don't think you'll find anyone in law enforcement with the USFWS who would agree with you, and put their name on the memo?

This topic comes up on taxidermy.net, and there are people on both sides of the fence on the subject, believing what they are doing, and how they see it is perfectly fine. The unfortunate thing is, the people who find out the actual law, pay the penalty, and the people who don't are playing roulette.

Would you care to take the time to post this exact scenario on taxidermy.net in both the bird forum as well as the current event forum? I'm certainly not saying that there won't be people taking both sides, because it sure is a silly law, and somewhat vague.

I also understand the gifting thing and paying the exact amount for shipping, and there are people who would argue whether that is legal because money did change hands even if it was simply for the cost of shipping alone. There are many taxidermists who simply don't mess with migratory birds because one mistake can get your pee pee caught in a vice!

Having the customer find someone willing to gift them a bird, and everything is all good. When the taxidermist enters the equation by gifting, it gets tricky!

Have a good day everyone!
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Re: Question about legality for Brian and Pat

Postby duxrus » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:44 pm

Here is my take and my Fed and State friend's also.......


You can't sell a piece of driftwood with the bird for free.(or twinkie)

You can't as a taxidermist save personal birds or take in "gifted" ones and then turn around and mount them for a client. You can't gift a gifted bird, then get money for it.

The gifter could gift a bird to your client directly (the client would have to pay shipping and have it delivered to himself) but you can't play middle man.

You can't just replace a wild bird for a client's shot to hell mess of one and call it good.

As a taxidermist I wouldn't consider doing any of the above. If someone's wants to get a "gifted" bird mounted, than you shouldn't be in the equation until the client brings it to you...with the "gifted" paperwork.

Funny how so many taxidermists start looking for "gifted" birds right after season. They are walking a fine line that could cost them alot of $. I can see where someone might want a rare specimen for their showroom (like a harlequin) but most of the time it is for everyday stuff like woodies and mallards.....RED FLAG.

When out of country species needs a USDA permit to import , the permit holder can not release those birds to a taxidermist without said permit. I have other taxidermist wanting me to play middle man on importing their client's birds all the time...BIG no-no. My local USDA agent warned me of the penaltities of that when I first got a permit way back when. When asking for something like a cinny teal ( found in countries where additional regulations may apply) you better be 100% sure it was shot in the U.S. or you are begging for more than the Feds to crawl your butt. Belive me when I say you don't want USDA special agents knocking on your door wanting to back tract the where abouts of an entire shipment of birds. You have to show proof of the remains being incinerated and your client will be paid a visit also until they are satisfied. Everything better be as needed or OUCH. A broker messed up some paper work a few years ago and I got that visit. They do check up on you and take these "transfer" and "gifting" issues serious.
Last edited by duxrus on Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Question about legality for Brian and Pat

Postby Pete-pec » Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:13 pm

Thanks Brian!

That also doesn't mean that everyone will agree. That includes the taxidermist as well as the Warden.
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Re: Question about legality for Brian and Pat

Postby duxrus » Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:16 pm

Pete-pec wrote:Thanks Brian!

That also doesn't mean that everyone will agree. That includes the taxidermist as well as the Warden.




Funny how us taxidermists don't make or translate those rules.....the ones with badges who wrote them do :welcome:
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