NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norman

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NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norman

Postby daveusa99 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:20 am

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but things have gotten worse around duck hunting on Lake Norman and everyone has been very quiet about it. Apparently, the genius legislators from Troutman pushed a bill up to the NC House. House Bill 186 which is currently under review in the NC General Assembly submitted by legislators Jeter (Mecklenburg), Cotham (Mecklenburg), and Pittman (Cabarras). In this bill, they are requesting that each town (inclusive of CORNELIUS, COUNTIES, DAVIDSON, HUNTERSVILLE, IREDELL COUNTY, LAKE NORMAN, LAKES & RIVERS, LOCAL, LOCAL GOVERNMENT, LOCAL ORDINANCES, MECKLENBURG COUNTY, MOORESVILLE, MUNICIPALITIES, TROUTMAN and any others they plan to add) can extend their town ordinances 2,500 feet over the high water mark of Lake Norman. Essentially 1/2 mile into the lake which covers almost all of the Lake (lake Norman) one side to the other. The ordinances of the towns say you cannot discharge a firearm in town limits and this would give the towns authority to arrest anyone doing so on the lake. So, while they are not "banning" duck hunting in essence they are unless you plan on hunting them with a bow and arrow and even then, I believe that is considered a "firearm". This is extremely bad as not only would it essentially ban duck / goose hunting on Lake Norman but it would set a precedent for all other NC counties to do the same and essentially ban all duck / goose hunting on all lakes of NC. I have already written all my legislative reps for Iredell complaining, alerted the NRA, DU, and Delta Waterfowl about it but for every hunter that starts pushing to get rid of this bill, the better. I believe this is all coming up from that incident with the lady on the lake who lives in Troutman. Plus, Federal laws state that they have jurisdiction over all water from the high tide mark but if NC passes this, they will over ride that and it would require legal action by citizens to bring it up to the State Supreme Court to overturn it. Good luck with that one. If this rediculous law is passed, you can essentially forget all duck / goose hunting on lakes in NC. Once it clears the house, it will go up to the Gov to sign into law. My guess is that even if it fails, they will "negotiate" the distance of enforcement to less distance but still get it passed. It is important that this bill is completely squashed. This is very very important to defeat for every duck / goose hunter in the entire state of NC if you plan to hunt on any NC lake. If you don't believe this is happening, feel free to check on the state gov website searching for bill 186. It has already undergone two readings and reviews.
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Re: NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norm

Postby Dingbatter 2 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:00 pm

From what it looks like on Google Earth, every square inch of shoreline has a house on it. I know that no duck hunter has ever set up behind someone's house and woke up the kids and the rest of the family before dawn. That would be really, really dumb. Before long someone would submit a bill in an attempt to control the discharge of guns within a reasonable distance of sleeping families. :no:
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Re: NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norm

Postby daveusa99 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:18 pm

Dingbatter 2 wrote:From what it looks like on Google Earth, every square inch of shoreline has a house on it. I know that no duck hunter has ever set up behind someone's house and woke up the kids and the rest of the family before dawn. That would be really, really dumb. Before long someone would submit a bill in an attempt to control the discharge of guns within a reasonable distance of sleeping families. :no:


The federal laws for duck hunting are very clear. There is no minimum distance to discharge a firearm from a house provided the hunter is under the high water mark line, shooting out over water, using non-toxic shot, and they don't exceed their bag limit. If people are upset about waking up sleeping families for duck hunters, then they should instead pass a bill to allow silencers on duck guns so no one will get disturbed, not ban duck hunting on lakes because a few residents which feed ducks like pets get upset because someone is shooting them legally during a valid hunting season. If what you say is correct, then the rule that you can't shoot deer within 300 yards of a home would mean the same thing. We should push to abolish all deer hunting until after 10 AM so families are awake or make it the same 2500 foot rule which still not be far enough away and wake up a sleeping family. The point here is that the laws set by the fed for duck hunting should suffice as long as hunters do not violate those rules. As a matter of fact on Lake Norman, there has been 0 hunting related accidents over the last 20 years. This was confirmed by NC Conservation and wildlife officials. So if safety is not an issue here, why is waking up a family for hunting? If we then want to go further, there were over 100 boat drinking related accidents on the lake each year, so let's ban all boats on Lake Norman to fix that. Last I checked, the lake was for all residents not just the ones who don't like duck hunters.
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Re: NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norm

Postby Dingbatter 2 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:16 pm

You can quote all of the laws you want, but we all know that laws can be changed. I just brought it up from looking at some satellite images of the lake. The same thing is happening in other areas, especially the coast. All I can say is that if you start banging away behind homes and pissing people off something is going to happen. This bill was not introduced on a whim. There is a history behind it. Things change, places change, outlooks change. Just the way it is. Nothing remains the same.
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Re: NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norm

Postby Redheadprostaff » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:56 pm

Guys dont look to Ducks Unlimited to help you on this. When this went viral a year or two ago with the so called petition DU stuck there neck out and claimed to NOT be pro hunter. One of the guys in the Lake Norman Local Chapter made a quote in the local paper about the local DU's view on the matter and it was Pro Hunter. A few days after the paper published he got a phone call from Canada and was advised he had no right to speak on behalf of DU and that DU was not PRO HUNTER BUT PRO CONSERVATION. Also advised that they had some large contrib's around Lake Norman and they were not hunters. No suprise their with all the cracker jack feeders around. I about rolled over, who do they think their buggest contributers are bird watchers? I have since ceased all my funding to DU and all organizations that support it with the exception of the North Carolina Wildlife Habitat Foundation. I am not bashing DU just simply stating that they will not help you on the issue. Guys this is the largest fresh water lake in NC we can hunt and I intend to keep it that way. Please contact your officials and shoot this thing down before it gets to high for our opinions to matter.
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Re: NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norm

Postby apexhunter » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:37 am

Even though I don't hunt Norman I've sent a note to some friends in the legislature urging them to oppose the passing of this bill. That said there are many lakes in NC that have no development on them and are under the auspices of WRC controlled gamelands. In the triangle area alone, all of the lakes except Wheeler allow hunting as they are State owned properties or most of the surrounding land is controlled as gameland (Falls, Jordan and Harris).

Development is obviously the bane of all hunters, whether they chase waterfowl, small game or big game and waterfront property is no exception. The more money people are willing to pay for waterfront or lakeside property simply means less available shoreline that will be remaining for hunting purposes...and there's not much that can be done to stop it.

As for DU's stance; even though it was founded by sportsmen during the dust bowl era the mission specifically states that it is a wetlands and waterfowl conservation organization. They never have and probably never will take a pro hunting stance as that is not their fundamental purpose. If one is looking for large scale assistance in situations like this they should look to something like SCI or NRA.
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Re: NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norm

Postby wahoowilly » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:51 am

DU sux.
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Re: NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norm

Postby Dingbatter 2 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:02 am

NRA, SCI, and YOU are better choices to fight this. DU is a conservation organization. They do a lot of good though. If you don't like DU, please refrain from hunting GL's for waterfowl. A lot of the money for water control structures and impoundment maintenance comes from DU. Ok, back to L. Norman.
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Re: NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norm

Postby EastBound&Down » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:25 pm

Off topic, but Delta Waterfowl proudly stands by being pro hunter
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Re: NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norm

Postby daveusa99 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:47 pm

So, I would agree that when the duck hunting came to head last year on LKN, it was really Delta Waterfowl that stood up and made the loudest noise. They went to the press and with information from NC Fish & Wildlife had the statistics showing zero hunt accidents on the lake in the last 20 years but showed several hundred drinking related accidents which seemed to have quieted down the Mayor of Cornelius that was making a stink. It seems to be gone and forgotten but not so. The incident occurred in Troutman (which makes no sense why the Mayor of Cornelius jumped in) but it was a lady who lived on a hill overlooking the lake and fed the ducks and geese regularly. Apparently, a hunter was out in open water and shot a duck which she claimed came bloody up to her property and scared her daughter. She then went to the news saying how dangerous it all was and how people can get shot. That was why Delta showed that with zero accidents related to duck hunting, it was untrue. Seems that the local township folks of Troutman decided to push it further as they have an ordinance which says no one can discharge a firearm in township limits and they got two liberals in Mecklenburg and one in Cabarras to sponsor the bill to extend the town laws over 1/2 mile into the lake. They claim it is not restricting duck / goose hunting but unless you are throwing rocks at ducks and geese, you would be illegal to hunt them with a gun. The geniuses in Troutman are also pushing locally to not allow those with concealed carry permits to go into township parks. More nonsense, less of a concern. The fact that the bill 186 is in the house of NC is a big issue. Should it pass and essentially ban hunting on LKN, it will easily set a precedent for all the other counties to follow suit and no more migratory bird hunting on lakes in NC. I have asked the reps I contacted to check statistics on LKN hunting accidents before they consider this bill. Just because one lady got bent on a wounded duck swimming up to her land should not make laws restricting guns which will end waterfowl hunting. The better answer for her is either move or stop feeding the ducks attracting them to your home. To bad they can't ticket those who feed wildlife on the lake, it is bad for the birds anyway.
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Re: NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norm

Postby TooTall » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:02 am

EastBound&Down wrote:Off topic, but Delta Waterfowl proudly stands by being pro hunter


Not necessarily off topic. Last time they tried to shut down the duck hunting on Norman, Delta Waterfowl stepped in and got it repealed after DU decided not to touch it. Delta has always been a strong supporter of ducks and duck hunters. They understand where funding for habitat improvement and research comes from and stand behind those people.
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Re: NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norm

Postby tsmart » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:10 am

daveusa99 wrote:The federal laws for duck hunting are very clear.

It's the State, County, and local Town laws that ruins everything.

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Re: NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norm

Postby tsmart » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:19 am

daveusa99 wrote:Mayor of Cornelius that was making a stink.
(Jeff Tarte)

daveusa99 wrote:Should it pass and essentially ban hunting on LKN, it will easily set a precedent for all the other counties to follow suit and no more migratory bird hunting on lakes in NC.

I'm pretty sure it has already passed....
It was a sneaky, underhanded, quite Bill - and I believe it has already went through, unnoticed.
It comes into effect July 1, 2013

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Re: NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norm

Postby tsmart » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:30 am

I question Jeff about the underhandedness of the Bill and his agenda of banning duck hunting on Norman.

This was his response...

Image

But he he failed to mention, the noise ordinances they have in place. :rolleyes:

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Re: NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norm

Postby wahoowilly » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:30 pm

As long as "WE?" hunt...
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Re: NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norm

Postby Driven51387 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:14 pm

Hey guys,
This bill has not been signed by the governor yet. I spoke with a contact at the Delta Waterfowl Chapter in Mooresville (Jeff Holshouser). They caught it before it went through. The bill was updated so it will not be able to interfere with US Fish and Wildlife laws. The NCWRC is working to make sure that our best interests are being looked after from their end as well. The senate bill has not been altered yet although it must mirror the house bill for it pass. It is up to all of us to make sure that this happens. Contact your local reps and make your voice heard on this issue so that we can protect our sport. The guys at Mooresville Delta are watching it very closely. I have never been a member of Delta Waterfowl but I will be now after my experience talking to Jeff. If you have questions or want the full story I would contact Jeff. His info is on the Mooresville chapter’s web page. I didn’t know him from Adam and he was very helpful. This bill will not go through without one heck of fight from me and hopefully from you. I'll be contacting my reps tomorrow. Please do the same.
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Re: NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norm

Postby lkndeltawaterfowl » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:55 pm

Folks,

On behalf of the Lake Norman Delta Waterfowl Chapter, based out of Mooresville, I would like to provide everyone with an update on this matter. I initially heard of this issue resurfacing in early March with the proposal of Senate Bill 142 and House Bill 186 and immediately reached out to my contacts at Delta Waterfowl to begin taking action to prevent any such laws from going into effect that would impact our hunting rights on Lake Norman. As mentioned above, these two bills initially stated that the towns of Mooresville, Huntersville, Davidson, Cornelius and Troutman would be able to enforce their town ordinances 2500' into Lake Norman where the town limits touch the high water mark. After contacting various local and state politicians, House Bill 186 was updated with a Proprosed Committee Substitute stating that "A municipality shall not enforce any municipal ordinance pursuant to this act if the ordinance conflicts with the provisions of Chapter 75A or Chapter 113 of the General Statutes." This would essentially prohibit the towns from being able to enforce any local ordinance regulating boating, fishing and hunting, including the discharge of a firearm.

With this said, we are still working to get Senate Bill 142 updated with this same verbiage. I have written confirmation from Senator Jeff Tarte that this verbiage will be added to his bill, but it has yet to happen. We are constantly following up to ensure that this gets updated in the near future.

Thanks for all of the folks out there that support Delta Waterfowl and our mission "To secure the future of waterfowl and waterfowl hunting."

Check us out online at http://www.lakenormandeltawaterfowl.org or on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/lkndelta

Sincerely,

Your Lake Norman Delta Waterfowl Committee

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Re: NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norm

Postby Dingbatter » Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:43 pm

I live no where near lake norman, never been there and will never go there to hunt. That said I have kept up with this topic since it all started just to see what happens. After seeing how DU completely dropped the ball for the local hunters in this area its good to see the work by the guys at Delta Waterfowl. Everyone who lives and hunts this area should give all their support to Delta and tell DU to fly a kite. It really makes you think who is looking out for waterfowl hunters today, after all who says this couldn't happen in the areas I hunt next.
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Re: NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norm

Postby wahoowilly » Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:26 pm

Du cares spit for hunters. It's all about "the ducks".
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Re: NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norm

Postby trigger22 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:59 pm

wahoowilly wrote:Du cares spit for hunters. It's all about "the dollar".


FIFY ;)
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Re: NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norm

Postby KAhunter » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:08 am

1. DU has done more for ducks and duck hunters than anyone ever. Dont forget that. These 60 day 6 bird seasons has ALOT to do with what DU has done. It is all about the ducks, and I would be willing to bet that there is some legitimate reasons for all of the actions DU takes when it doesnt jump on issues like this. Maybe someone should contact DU and ask why they wouldnt try to help out these hunters before everything jumps all over them. I dont want this to be a DU argument, just wanted to say that.

2. I have never nor will I ever hunt lake Norman. That being said, every duck hunter in North Carolina needs to contact all of the representatives and make it known that this CANNOT happen. This is a precedence we do not want to set. Hunting spots are getting harder and harder to find and actions like this will do nothing but hurt our hunting opportunities. If something like this happens it could be the example for other areas to try and impliment the same laws. Please contact everyone you can and fight this, even if you dont even know where lake norman is. It is very important.
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Re: NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norm

Postby tsmart » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:51 am

KAhunter wrote: Maybe someone should contact DU and ask why they wouldnt try to help out these hunters before everything jumps all over them.


It's pretty simple KA.
DU is a Wetlands Conservation Org.
They are not an advocacy group for hunters, and remains at a distance when issues like this arise.
It seems counter-productive, when the majority of the supporting membership is hunters.
I went round and round about this in the past, with one of the past Washington State DU Presidents.

Both orgs are important to us as hunters, but when "WE" come under attack as Hunters; Delta will be the first to step up to the plate.

If DU does step up, it's ALWAYS after Delta has batted first for us - and then seems like it's just for the "publicity" (sorry, but I gotta call it like I see it).

Playing catch up, ain't the best way to play the game.

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Re: NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norm

Postby tsmart » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:07 am

And KA... don't get me wrong.
I think DU does good work, and we need them.
But they aren't gonna stand for Hunters rights immediately.

If you want to compare the 2 orgs further, check out Charity Navigator.

DU:
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.c ... orgid=3631

Delta:
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.c ... orgid=7854

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Re: NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norm

Postby KAhunter » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:12 am

I agree that they dont stand for hunters. And I agree they probably should. But they dont for whatever reason. I just think that people hate on DU alot because of stuff like that. No organization is perfect, but they have done soo much for waterfowl and waterfowl hunters I just like to make sure no one forgets that. Its also annoying when people are so short sighted and bitch about how they went to the banquet and spent their money but DU didnt put an impoundment in their back yard. Thats another argument all together. I just want people to still support them in their effort to conserve waterfowl habitat.
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Re: NC House Bill 186 - abolishing Duck Hunting on Lake Norm

Postby tsmart » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:40 pm

KAhunter wrote:But they dont for whatever reason.

I covered that. See below.
tsmart wrote:DU is a Wetlands Conservation Org.
They are not an advocacy group for hunters, and remains at a distance when issues like this arise..


Bottom line...
Both orgs are good for ducks.
But when Hunter's rights are at stake - and hunters are your bread and butter... As Si would say "BAM !"

There's your sign.

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