20 gauge

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20 gauge

Postby apg36820 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:32 am

I have been thinking for sometime now that I might make the switch from 12 gauge to 20. My dad shoots 20 gauge eclusivly and has been trying to get me to switch for awhile. I have had difficulty finding a 20 gauge. any suggestions on a good 20 gauge for field use.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby jpari » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:56 am

Can't go wrong with a Benelli 20 ga. M2 American. My wife shoots one and loves it.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby cut_un » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:49 am

I use a Rem 870 pump in a 20 ga. Great little "workin gun".... will take anything you trhow at it :thumbsup:
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby apg36820 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:29 am

I currently shoot a 12 gauge 870 wingmaster fron the late 70s. I'm wanting to try out an autoloader.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby Rick Hall » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:27 pm

I do the great majority of my duck hunting with an old HK import Benelli Montefeltro 20, but if something happened to it, I'd be looking for a little used M1 or perhaps the M2 American jpari mentioned. That Benelli action has much more than proven itself over the years of use and abuse.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby apg36820 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:46 pm

Also since I'm wanting to switch to 20. Do you have good experience with any certian shells?
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby Rick Hall » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:42 pm

Over the years of daily (in season) use, I've gravitated to Kent's 2 3/4" Upland Steel 5s.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby Windrider » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:38 pm

I've had good luck with Browning Silver.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby cootlover » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:02 pm

All I shoot is a m2 20 ga ,patten master, kents fast steel 3in #2, I kill ducks just as far as any 12 ga :thumbsup:
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby duckslayer74 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:30 pm

cootlover wrote:All I shoot is a m2 20 ga ,patten master, kents fast steel 3in #2, I kill ducks just as far as any 12 ga :thumbsup:


X2 except for the Benelli. I think a lot of people underestimate the 20 and what it's capable of.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby Rick Hall » Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:07 am

duckslayer74 wrote:
cootlover wrote:All I shoot is a m2 20 ga ,patten master, kents fast steel 3in #2, I kill ducks just as far as any 12 ga :thumbsup:


X2 except for the Benelli. I think a lot of people underestimate the 20 and what it's capable of.


And some apparently overestimate it. If I wanted to kill ducks as far as any 12ga, I'd shoot a 12 - or 10. But I'm much more interested in seeing how close I can get our birds than how far we can kill them.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby hamernhonkers » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:27 am

Rick Hall wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote:
cootlover wrote:All I shoot is a m2 20 ga ,patten master, kents fast steel 3in #2, I kill ducks just as far as any 12 ga :thumbsup:


X2 except for the Benelli. I think a lot of people underestimate the 20 and what it's capable of.


And some apparently overestimate it. If I wanted to kill ducks as far as any 12ga, I'd shoot a 12 - or 10. But I'm much more interested in seeing how close I can get our birds than how far we can kill them.


Yes but the same argument can be about any gauge. No matter the bore diameter it always comes down to the shooters/loads capabilities.

Put in the time to patterning, practicing, and learning the loads limits then keeping the shots inside of those limits and every gauge out there can be very effective for taking fowl.

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Re: 20 gauge

Postby cootlover » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:04 pm

I just love when people think a 12 gauge can shoot farther than a 20 ga like hammer said put time behind the trigger 1550fps is 1550 fps it dont matter what gun it's coming out of .It's ok if people need a 12 gauge to shoot past 20 yards I don't.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby duckslayer74 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:23 pm

Rick Hall wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote:
cootlover wrote:All I shoot is a m2 20 ga ,patten master, kents fast steel 3in #2, I kill ducks just as far as any 12 ga :thumbsup:


X2 except for the Benelli. I think a lot of people underestimate the 20 and what it's capable of.


And some apparently overestimate it. If I wanted to kill ducks as far as any 12ga, I'd shoot a 12 - or 10. But I'm much more interested in seeing how close I can get our birds than how far we can kill them.


Overestimate it, that's funny. 1500fps of 2 shot is the same out of any gun no matter what gauge. Good for you too on calling them in close, we hunt big open water and most of our shots are 35 to 50 yards. Maybe you wouldn't have a problem with a 20 at those distances if you'd learn to shoot.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby Twashburn24 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:36 pm

cut_un wrote:I use a Rem 870 pump in a 20 ga. Great little "workin gun".... will take anything you trhow at it :thumbsup:


Not knocking the 870 I have one and love it but I only used mine with 2 3/4" for upland bird hunting, my wife used hers for duck hunting last year and it jammed up once in a while with 3"
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby Rick Hall » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:57 pm

duckslayer74 wrote:
Rick Hall wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote:
cootlover wrote:All I shoot is a m2 20 ga ,patten master, kents fast steel 3in #2, I kill ducks just as far as any 12 ga :thumbsup:


X2 except for the Benelli. I think a lot of people underestimate the 20 and what it's capable of.


And some apparently overestimate it. If I wanted to kill ducks as far as any 12ga, I'd shoot a 12 - or 10. But I'm much more interested in seeing how close I can get our birds than how far we can kill them.


Overestimate it, that's funny. 1500fps of 2 shot is the same out of any gun no matter what gauge. Good for you too on calling them in close, we hunt big open water and most of our shots are 35 to 50 yards. Maybe you wouldn't have a problem with a 20 at those distances if you'd learn to shoot.


cootlover wrote:I just love when people think a 12 gauge can shoot farther than a 20 ga like hammer said put time behind the trigger 1550fps is 1550 fps it dont matter what gun it's coming out of .It's ok if people need a 12 gauge to shoot past 20 yards I don't.


Psst... it's not the velocity, it's the relative payload per velocity. 12ga Kent Fast Steel, for instance, will send an extra 1/4 (3") to 1/2oz (3 1/2") of shot downrange at the same speed as their 3" 20ga.

But I reckon maybe my shooting is suspect, because even after backing other gunners virtually every open season morning since '84, I'm not anxious to take 50 yard duck shots with any gun.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby duckslayer74 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:56 pm

Rick Hall wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote:
Rick Hall wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote:
cootlover wrote:All I shoot is a m2 20 ga ,patten master, kents fast steel 3in #2, I kill ducks just as far as any 12 ga :thumbsup:


X2 except for the Benelli. I think a lot of people underestimate the 20 and what it's capable of.


And some apparently overestimate it. If I wanted to kill ducks as far as any 12ga, I'd shoot a 12 - or 10. But I'm much more interested in seeing how close I can get our birds than how far we can kill them.


Overestimate it, that's funny. 1500fps of 2 shot is the same out of any gun no matter what gauge. Good for you too on calling them in close, we hunt big open water and most of our shots are 35 to 50 yards. Maybe you wouldn't have a problem with a 20 at those distances if you'd learn to shoot.


cootlover wrote:I just love when people think a 12 gauge can shoot farther than a 20 ga like hammer said put time behind the trigger 1550fps is 1550 fps it dont matter what gun it's coming out of .It's ok if people need a 12 gauge to shoot past 20 yards I don't.


Psst... it's not the velocity, it's the relative payload per velocity. 12ga Kent Fast Steel, for instance, will send an extra 1/4 (3") to 1/2oz (3 1/2") of shot downrange at the same speed as their 3" 20ga.

But I reckon maybe my shooting is suspect, because even after backing other gunners virtually every open season morning since '84, I'm not anxious to take 50 yard duck shots with any gun.


Like I said," learn to shoot". You may need the extra 1/4 to 3/8oz of payload but others don't.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby Rick Hall » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:38 pm

The point remains that you two said:

duckslayer74 wrote:
cootlover wrote:All I shoot is a m2 20 ga ,patten master, kents fast steel 3in #2, I kill ducks just as far as any 12 ga :thumbsup:


X2 except for the Benelli. I think a lot of people underestimate the 20 and what it's capable of.


And that's simply not true. Neither you or cootlover "kill ducks just as far as any 12ga". The laws of physics prevent it. And no one should be misled into believing a 20ga is just as effective downrange as a 12.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby hamernhonkers » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:55 pm

Rick Hall wrote:The point remains that you two said:

duckslayer74 wrote:
cootlover wrote:All I shoot is a m2 20 ga ,patten master, kents fast steel 3in #2, I kill ducks just as far as any 12 ga :thumbsup:


X2 except for the Benelli. I think a lot of people underestimate the 20 and what it's capable of.


And that's simply not true. Neither you or cootlover "kill ducks just as far as any 12ga". The laws of physics prevent it. And no one should be misled into believing a 20ga is just as effective downrange as a 12.



Rick sorry man but a golden pellet is a golden pellet, so yes even a 410 can kill a duck as far as a 10 as the diameter of the bore dose not determine the laws of physics for a pellet. The size/speed/density of the pellet determines what that pellet is capable of.

Also you have to remember that a great patterning load out of a 20 with a good shooter behind it will consistently kill a duck further out then a 12 that throws a good pattern with a piss poor shooter behind it. So yes in spirit and in physics a 20 will kill a duck just as far as a 12 :wink:
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby Rick Hall » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:00 pm

Sorry, Hammer, but more golden pellets are more golden pellets.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby hamernhonkers » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:00 pm

Rich Hall wrote:The point remains that you two said:


duckslayer74 wrote:
cootlover wrote:
All I shoot is a m2 20 ga ,patten master, kents fast steel 3in #2, I kill ducks just as far as any 12 ga

X2 except for the Benelli. I think a lot of people underestimate the 20 and what it's capable of.

And that's simply not true. Neither you or cootlover "kill ducks just as far as any 12ga". The laws of physics prevent it. And no one should be misled into believing a 20ga is just as effective downrange as a 12.


Rick Hall wrote:Sorry, Hammer, but more golden pellets are more golden pellets.



But pellet for pellet a 20 is every bit as lethal as a 12 to the range that pellet can provide enough retained energy/penetration to immobilize the bird. And in the end all it takes is one pellet so............yes a 20 can kill ducks just as far as any 12 :tongue:

I just love the off season :lol3: How about you Rick :thumbsup:
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby duckslayer74 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:18 pm

hamernhonkers wrote:
Rich Hall wrote:The point remains that you two said:


duckslayer74 wrote:
cootlover wrote:
All I shoot is a m2 20 ga ,patten master, kents fast steel 3in #2, I kill ducks just as far as any 12 ga

X2 except for the Benelli. I think a lot of people underestimate the 20 and what it's capable of.

And that's simply not true. Neither you or cootlover "kill ducks just as far as any 12ga". The laws of physics prevent it. And no one should be misled into believing a 20ga is just as effective downrange as a 12.


Rick Hall wrote:Sorry, Hammer, but more golden pellets are more golden pellets.


But pellet for pellet a 20 is every bit as lethal as a 12 to the range that pellet can provide enough retained energy/penetration to immobilize the bird. And in the end all it takes is one pellet so............yes a 20 can kill ducks just as far as any 12 :tongue:


I just love the off season :lol3: How about you Rick :thumbsup:


X2 HH. I don't see why that is so hard for people to comprehend. :huh: :huh:
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby Rick Hall » Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:37 am

No one I'm aware of has had trouble comprehending the pellet to pellet comparison. My issue is the foolhardiness of extrapolating "kills just as far" from single pellet efficiencies when comparing gauges with like velocities but differing payloads.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby Rick Hall » Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:01 am

hamernhonkers wrote:I just love the off season :lol3: How about you Rick :thumbsup:


Seems like the withdrawal gets worse every year, so here I be, thumb wrestling on the Internet.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby mudpack » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:07 am

duckslayer74 wrote:
Rick Hall wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote: a lot of people underestimate the 20 and what it's capable of.

And some apparently overestimate it. If I wanted to kill ducks as far as any 12ga, I'd shoot a 12 - or 10. But I'm much more interested in seeing how close I can get our birds than how far we can kill them.


Overestimate it, that's funny. 1500fps of 2 shot is the same out of any gun no matter what gauge. Good for you too on calling them in close, we hunt big open water and most of our shots are 35 to 50 yards. Maybe you wouldn't have a problem with a 20 at those distances if you'd learn to shoot.


Sorry, duckslayer, but Rick Hall is correct on this one.
A single pellet careth not from what gage gun it is shot from, that's true. However, the killing efficiency AND range of a shotgun depends primarily...not entirely, but primarily...on one thing: number of shot in any given pattern. The denser the pattern, generally speaking, the more efficient the load (i.e. fewer cripples) and the further away that pattern will maintain killing density.
What this means is that in most cases the more shot in the load, the better the load is. Because you can shoot a significantly larger payload in a 12 gage than you can in a 20 gage, the 12 gage will generally kill more ducks, further away, than will the 20.

Of course, I'm talking about commercial waterfowl loads. If someone wants to handload some special ammo for each gauge for "comparison", there will be certain combinations that will favor the 20. For instance, a 1 1/4oz. load of #6 TSS shot in a 3" 20 gage hull might easily out-perform a 7/8oz load of T shot in a 2 3/4" 12 gage hull, both in the field and on the pattern board. But, this is one more of those exceptions that prove the rule.
And, by the way, I have to question the mindset of "hunters" who let fly at healthy birds that are beyond the capabilities of their equipment, in hopes of a lucky kill from the infamous "golden BB". :fingerpt: Anyone who does that in my blind has their invitation canceled instantaneously and are escorted back to the truck.

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