Shell limit

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Shell limit

Postby swampchicken » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:07 pm

Well was wondering if you guys thought a shell limit would help the skybusting on ca's? And what should the shell limits be? Also how many shells do you guys shoot on a average per hunt?
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Re: Shell limit

Postby beretta24 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:53 pm

Are you from CA?
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Re: Shell limit

Postby Team Kabob » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:55 pm

Think he meant Conservation area (CA)?
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Re: Shell limit

Postby beretta24 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:13 pm

Haha...I was referring to cali knowing that's not what he meant as I why would you want all that schit micro managed in your state too?
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Re: Shell limit

Postby Sprigs68 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:14 pm

I believe the answer is to get agents off of the highways and boat-ramps and into the field. I have never been put off by being checked by a game agent in the field. Most of the time they are very considerate and encourage good hunting and good times. The problem is that I never see them in the field - it's almost always back at the boat ramp or at a highway checkpoint. The only violators you're going to catch there are folks who have unknowingly made a mistake or are just to thick headed to know otherwise. The habitual lawbreakers have their crap cleaned up long before they pick-up decoys.

I know this thread is about skybusting but I believe having a capable agent in the field will curb a lot of this behavior along with many others. More limitations and regulations will mostly frustrate hunters that already abide by the law. Enforce the regs we have now.

I don't think I can necessarily average a number of shells shot per hunt. A lot depends upon where, with who, how the ducks are flying, etc..., etc... When hunting by myself or with one other I probably average around 2 shots/bird including water swats. When hunting with a larger group, probably closer to 3 shots per bird to accommodate for more water swats and cleaning up getaways.
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Re: Shell limit

Postby swampchicken » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:32 pm

Sprigs68 wrote:I believe the answer is to get agents off of the highways and boat-ramps and into the field. I have never been put off by being checked by a game agent in the field. Most of the time they are very considerate and encourage good hunting and good times. The problem is that I never see them in the field - it's almost always back at the boat ramp or at a highway checkpoint. The only violators you're going to catch there are folks who have unknowingly made a mistake or are just to thick headed to know otherwise. The habitual lawbreakers have their crap cleaned up long before they pick-up decoys.

I know this thread is about skybusting but I believe having a capable agent in the field will curb a lot of this behavior along with many others. More limitations and regulations will mostly frustrate hunters that already abide by the law. Enforce the regs we have now.

I don't think I can necessarily average a number of shells shot per hunt. A lot depends upon where, with who, how the ducks are flying, etc..., etc... When hunting by myself or with one other I probably average around 2 shots/bird including water swats. When hunting with a larger group, probably closer to 3 shots per bird to accommodate for more water swats and cleaning up getaways.


I have been witnessing a newer agent doing just that! Still there is no way for him to stop guys that keep shooting at birds they cannot tell are in killable range. I have seen a group of young hunters shoot 250 shells for the four of them in a morning and walk out with just 4 ducks. I honestly think limiting the shells in posession would help the areas to become more productive in the long run and also teach the newer hunters how to let the birds work in. I know there are some bad shots out there but one box of shells should suffice even for them unless they are shooting at birds too far away for thier own capabilities.
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Re: Shell limit

Postby Samarai » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:09 pm

You are so right Swampckn....put a max on shells in possession for anyone over age 20 and under age 69...maybe folks would start enjoying the true essence of waterfowling.
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Re: Shell limit

Postby Sprigs68 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:42 pm

Swamp, I'm glad to hear that you have an agent in your area who has the time and desire to get his boots wet. I agree that a few of the inexperienced guys have issues with shooting skills and lack a full appreciation of getting ducks in close. It's unfortunate that it takes a while for these guys to come around but most of them do. My experience is that many of the young guns actually do have a pretty ethical approach, and many times are quite conservative.

I take more issue with the veteran slob hunters who among other things skybust and because of their experience can pull out a high bird here and there. Long shooting is highly infectious. Once one party begins it, the next party feels they have to do it to compete, and so on. These knuckleheads are only setting an example for the young guys which only perpetuates the madness. I have witnessed several Skybusting episodes that ruined awesome flight days with more than one ending in knockdown drag outs at the parking lot. The veteran slob hunters do not have respect for others, the resource or most regulations, so follow the skybusters hit them hard in the pocketbook and revoke their licences, only then their behavior will change.
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Re: Shell limit

Postby gride830 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:21 pm

If I'm by myself a box will due but hunting with a large group for me means I'm chasing cripples. I think a group max limit of 100 shells or 30 shots a person. Whichever is smaller. So 1 guy 30 shots, 2 guys 60 shots, 3 guys 90 shots, 4 guys 100. Teach groups to not all shoot 3 shots at a couple ducks. 6 birds x 4 hunters is only 24 shots, leaves 76 shots for whatever. Guns are faster and advertising is showing new hunters that they can squeeze off 3 shots of 60 yard killing range shot in less than a sec. Not much shot gunning skills being taught anymore. Quickness to the shoulder and Patience to shoot. Don't need much more than that.
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Re: Shell limit

Postby Sprigs68 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:37 pm

How do you enforce a shell limit and what is to prevent guys from working around it? I just can't see an agent sitting in the buckbrush counting shots. I'd rather see them tracking down and checking obvious offenders.
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Re: Shell limit

Postby gride830 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:51 pm

Obvious offenders??? I don't think there are a ton of obvious offenders out there that an agent can say from the road, "I need to check those guys, they look illegal". I consider hunting a gentleman sport like golf. You know the rules. There aren't enough people to police the cheating so you basically have to police yourselves. There is soo much you can get away with when in the field even on managed hunts where there should be agents but usually aren't. I've seen it close and afar. You have to respect the rules even if you don't agree with them. If I was told to bring a max of 30 shells, I'd do it simply because I follow the rules. I shoot only 6 legal ducks because its the limit. I could very easily shoot more and probably never be caught but I have respect for the rules. I have been to places in Illinois where a shell limit is in order and we were never checked before we entered but if you we're checked in the field and had more than allowed, it's a bad thing.
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Re: Shell limit

Postby swampchicken » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:51 pm

Sprigs68 wrote:How do you enforce a shell limit and what is to prevent guys from working around it? I just can't see an agent sitting in the buckbrush counting shots. I'd rather see them tracking down and checking obvious offenders.


Well not going to advise on how to get around a shell limit. But enforcing would go something like agent walks up on guys checks licences and plugs and checks to see how many shells are on each person is my guess. I know two county agents that would walk out into the marsh and check. Arkansas wma's have shell limits to control skybusting and over shooting i just dont see why MO wouldn't implicate something like this on thier popular areas.
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Re: Shell limit

Postby swampchicken » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:58 pm

gride830 wrote:Obvious offenders??? I don't think there are a ton of obvious offenders out there that an agent can say from the road, "I need to check those guys, they look illegal". I consider hunting a gentleman sport like golf. You know the rules. There aren't enough people to police the cheating so you basically have to police yourselves. There is soo much you can get away with when in the field even on managed hunts where there should be agents but usually aren't. I've seen it close and afar. You have to respect the rules even if you don't agree with them. If I was told to bring a max of 30 shells, I'd do it simply because I follow the rules. I shoot only 6 legal ducks because its the limit. I could very easily shoot more and probably never be caught but I have respect for the rules. I have been to places in Illinois where a shell limit is in order and we were never checked before we entered but if you we're checked in the field and had more than allowed, it's a bad thing.


Very good point most all hunters do follow the rules. Since you hunted in an area with shell limits do you think it helped on the amount of skybusting and crippling factor?
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Re: Shell limit

Postby Sprigs68 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:58 am

Skybusting may be one of the most disruptive and obvious behaviors to identify and would be relatively straight forward to police. Simply identify the folks that are shooting high, observe them in the field, then check them. Skybusting produces many cripples and if those guys aren't chasing them all down, give them a ticket (wanton waste). Furthermore, the lack of respect and discipline that compels them to skybust probably carries into other aspects of their hunt which should result in a productive stop for the agent.

I could care less whether or not the guys in the next party have all of their licenses signed, misidentified a bird or have all of their boating equipment in line. Those things have far less impact on my hunt and this is where your sportsman like ethics should be allowed to come into play. Concentrate on the blatant offenders.

I agree with you most ethical hunters will abide by the shell limit, but most of the slobs will not. Policing shell limits in an open wade and shoot duck hunting CA would be much more challenging than in a southern Illinois goose hunting CA with permanent blinds. I know from some pretty reliable sources that guys still got around the 5 shell per goose limit all the time.

If you outlaw ammo, only the outlaws ............ I just don't think we need another regulation on the books.
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Re: Shell limit

Postby i_willie12 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:41 am

they use to have a 10 shell limit up here not that long ago for geese because of sky blasters at Swan lake.... Was a pain
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Re: Shell limit

Postby Sprigs68 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:38 am

With a shell limit are guys going to be reluctant to water swat crips?
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Re: Shell limit

Postby mjcraig15 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:15 am

I remember chasing a crippled Canadian when I was about 14 many years ago at Duck Creek when they had a 10 shell limit for geese. Shot 4 shots at it and chased the thing for 20 minutes before getting it. So 4 shots at the cripple, 2 shots to initially bring it down. Ended up with only 4 shots left which is plenty to get the one last goose at the time, but I can definitely see people not shooting at cripples that are on the outer edge of the range if there is a limit in place. So it may reduce sky busting, but increase the number of cripples that get away. If you can't see their feet, they aren't in range. We also use tree tops as a gauge depending on the size of the trees. I can't say I have never taken a long shot, but generally we have missed out on more shots because we let them go around too many times trying to get them in closer. If shell prices keep going up, it should take care of the problem.
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Re: Shell limit

Postby missouriducks » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:37 am

I talked to MDC about this very thing and they said the problem with a shell limit is people aren't just shooting ducks there's light geese an dark geese, so if someone wants to shoot full limits they can.
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Re: Shell limit

Postby Cliner » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:51 am

i_willie12 wrote:they use to have a 10 shell limit up here not that long ago for geese because of sky blasters at Swan lake.... Was a pain


That was also when the limit was 2 geese. That allowed for 5 shots per goose on a 2 goose limit. I feel that is fair. I'm with sprigs, I don't want another regulation added to hunting. We already have to deal with enough s#!t anyway.
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Re: Shell limit

Postby swampchicken » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:49 pm

How many shells do most of you take when hunting areas like the pass or the bluff? I dont think i have taken over a box with me to hunt and have killed plenty of geese and ducks with just a box at those areas. I honestly think it would be a good thing if there was a limit on shells, more ethical shots and behavior in those areas. The number of snows killed is very minimal on those areas during duck season.
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Re: Shell limit

Postby BigAL64 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:58 pm

NO MORE RULES!!! :hammer: :yes:
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Re: Shell limit

Postby i_willie12 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:21 am

BigAL64 wrote:NO MORE RULES!!! :hammer: :yes:


:ditto: :ditto: :ditto: Way to many rules already!!!!!!!

Some days i only need 12-15 shells.... Some days its just a bad day and cant hit them with their toes on the water for some reason.... Like others have said cleaning up cripples sometimes takes 3-4 shots
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Re: Shell limit

Postby talltimber » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:22 am

Shell limit don't mean much, especially in the woods. As mentioned, permanent blinds/pits, you might catch a few that way.
As far as numbers used normally, I know a guy that had never shot a box of shells on a duck hunt, ever. He hunted with a big party one day, that had some guys that couldn't shoot very well, plus he had a good seat on the setup they had going that day. Shot a hair over a box, and killed some ducks.
I'd say a dozen shells are common for me to shoot, including cripples, on a fair setup. Not long crossers. Long crossers are the devil, so I usually pass til I have something better to work with.
I don't think we need any more rules. But if you were gonna watch someone, how do you tell if they're sky busting? If they're missing? I've missed way too close to admit the range. Couldn't really ticket them for killing a duck at 60 yds could you?
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Re: Shell limit

Postby 870shooter » Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:52 pm

BigAL64 wrote:NO MORE RULES!!! :hammer: :yes:


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Re: Shell limit

Postby oktakem » Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:07 am

If anyone remembers the days of the Swan Lake Zone back in the 70's and 80's you would know there were 10 shell limits on geese. The agents would walk right up to your pit in the middle of a hunt and tell you to all get out while they checked your guns etc. Then move on to the next one and do the same. You had to be in possession of your shells to. They were notorious for counting shots fired from any blind! They also enforced a law called "Party Shooting". In essence if there were 4 hunters and 2 geese only 2 guys could shoot. My Godfather and his son got a few of those tickets! The shell limit could certainly be done again. As said before it would take man hours and getting them into the fields and off the roads. That idiot Reeds/Reaves down around Otter would have a field day harassing even more people then!!!!
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