Detroit?

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Re: Detroit?

Postby slowshooter » Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:51 pm

WoodyWhiffingMG wrote:
slowshooter wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
slowshooter wrote:Incentive? Nope. Tell me where the jobs that used to be in USA went?

Apparently incentives don't work. Especially when a community gets nothing back for the incentives they hand out.


What "hand out" does the community give? If you have more tax write offs than me does that mean I gave you a hand out? The community gets nothing back? Sure they do. Employment and cash flow, but that only works if the company stays.


Really? When does the community get enriched by Walmart?

Workers aren't given enough hours to get full time benefits and are paid low wages. While that saves the company money worker seek help from the community to make ends meet. That assistance in the form of medical care, subsidized housing and food stamps. Wisconsin did a study and found that it cost the community over 900,000 dollars a year to have a Walmart in town. That's just one store. And that's also before anyone talks about local tax breaks given just to break ground.

I'm not saying that it's bad to work with a corporation to come to town. Or give them incentives. I'm saying it's bad when a company that makes 17 billion a year has it's employees on public assistance.


That 17 billion is given to the investors, people like you and me. That is how the world is supposed to operate. Those who put time and effort in to their lives and careers get paid more so they can invest and retire. If we paid all of the slackers livable wages, the cost of living would skyrocket and all of us would be poor. Minimum wage jobs are meant to be transition jobs, not careers. If some guy or gal doesn't want to put the time in to further their level of success it is not my responsibility to worry about them. I have enough to worry about on my own.


You just admitted that profits gained via corporate welfare (AKA forcing costs onto local communities) are okay as you as long you get a slice. I might not be a particularly moral person but unlike you I'm not a scheming thief.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby WoodyWhiffingMG » Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:33 pm

No I did not.
I said the profits go where they should and that the minimum wage workers shouldn't recieve welfare.
If they want a livable wage they can go get it elsewhere.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby slowshooter » Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:41 pm

All you are confirming is that you can turn a blind eye to bad behavior if it enriches you. Take your share of that 17 billion and roll around on it, maybe it'll rub some of that Thieving Stink off of you.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby WoodyWhiffingMG » Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:57 pm

slowshooter wrote:All you are confirming is that you can turn a blind eye to bad behavior if it enriches you. Take your share of that 17 billion and roll around on it, maybe it'll rub some of that Thieving Stink off of you.


Oh you mean like welfare?
Spread the (I mean the upper class's and middle class's) wealth around by threat of force...

^^Theft^^

By the way you're doing a piss poor job of instigating an argument today.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby slowshooter » Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:00 pm

WoodyWhiffingMG wrote:
slowshooter wrote:All you are confirming is that you can turn a blind eye to bad behavior if it enriches you. Take your share of that 17 billion and roll around on it, maybe it'll rub some of that Thieving Stink off of you.


Oh you mean like welfare?
Spread the (I mean the upper class's and middle class's) wealth around by threat of force...

^^Theft^^

By the way you're doing a piss poor job of instigating an argument today.


I don't need to instigate an argument. You said that what Walmart is doing as policy is okay as long as it enriches you. There is no argument there. You are just trying to maintain a semblance of integrity. Too late.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby WoodyWhiffingMG » Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:34 pm

slowshooter wrote:
WoodyWhiffingMG wrote:
slowshooter wrote:All you are confirming is that you can turn a blind eye to bad behavior if it enriches you. Take your share of that 17 billion and roll around on it, maybe it'll rub some of that Thieving Stink off of you.


Oh you mean like welfare?
Spread the (I mean the upper class's and middle class's) wealth around by threat of force...

^^Theft^^

By the way you're doing a piss poor job of instigating an argument today.


I don't need to instigate an argument. You said that what Walmart is doing as policy is okay as long as it enriches you. There is no argument there. You are just trying to maintain a semblance of integrity. Too late.


I have no affiliation with Walmart, slow.

What I think is ethical is paying individuals what they are worth.
If some unethical liberals set up welfare to ensure generations of addicted recipients, that is neither Walmart's or my fault.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby slowshooter » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:13 pm

Quit weaseling.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby clampdaddy » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:17 pm

Slow, Walmart is the shoppers equivalent to McDonalds. McDonalds makes a killing but no matter how much they make, the guy that works the fryer isn't going to be compensated as well as a cook at Smith & Wollenskys.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby slowshooter » Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:58 am

clampdaddy wrote:Slow, Walmart is the shoppers equivalent to McDonalds. McDonalds makes a killing but no matter how much they make, the guy that works the fryer isn't going to be compensated as well as a cook at Smith & Wollenskys.



I never said he should. But what I am saying is that cramming down work hours so employees don't qualify for benefits, and are forced to seek them - as well as additional assistance from the local community, is about a skeevy as it gets.

The conservatives want it both ways. They complain loudly about how the poor take advantage of government help and can't climb out of poverty - then praise businesses for dodging the responsibility of the giving employees a decent wage and benefits. It's not like the nation hasn't noticed that bit of dissonance.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby WoodyWhiffingMG » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:58 am

slowshooter wrote:Quit weaseling.


Show some integrity, Slow.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby clampdaddy » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:21 am

slowshooter wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:Slow, Walmart is the shoppers equivalent to McDonalds. McDonalds makes a killing but no matter how much they make, the guy that works the fryer isn't going to be compensated as well as a cook at Smith & Wollenskys.



I never said he should. But what I am saying is that cramming down work hours so employees don't qualify for benefits, and are forced to seek them - as well as additional assistance from the local community, is about a skeevy as it gets.

The conservatives want it both ways. They complain loudly about how the poor take advantage of government help and can't climb out of poverty - then praise businesses for dodging the responsibility of the giving employees a decent wage and benefits. It's not like the nation hasn't noticed that bit of dissonance.


Find a large store that doesn't hire part timers. They all use them because when things get slow you can't just send home a full time employee that was signed on to do a minimum 40 hour week. Any part timer knows full well when they are hired that they are not going to get benefits. Their hours are now being cut........just like everybody knew would happen once Obamacare became a reality. So now they still don't have benefits......just like they knew the case would be when they signed on, but now they are are alsolooking at a fine from the federal government for not having health coverage, and they are working less hours so they have even less money to pay the fine. So who's the villain?

We use temps where I work too. They knew the deal when they signed on. The smart ones work hard and apply for full time positions as they become available. The not so smart ones won't even take advantage of things like a free to them on the job training course I do for their class A commercial drivers license, but even those guys are wishing that Obama would quit trying to help them. I had never seen so many smiles at work when they announced that the temps hours weren't going to be cut for a while because a big part of Obamacare got put off for a year.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby aunt betty » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:33 am

Arguing about corporate mindset.
A corporation is not human. Does everything it does to profit itself.
Motto: pay less than whats its worth, then re-sell it for more than what it is worth...
Fantastic until corporate mindset is applied to everything.
Humanity goes out the window in the name of profits. People start say things like, "I am better than everyone because I have a good job where I dont do crap and make lotsa money.
Start measuring what you produce and measure how productive you really are. Want to measure your production? Get a piece-work job like roofing or framing where you get paid by the sq. foot.
People in offices who got paid large salaries for making MISTAKES like deciding to make crappy cars on purpose is what killed Detroit. People are equals in this country but if you wear a suit and tie to work you are extra-equal. Quit trying to prove it suit boys.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:59 am

aunt betty wrote:People in offices who got paid large salaries for making MISTAKES like deciding to make crappy cars on purpose is what killed Detroit. People are equals in this country but if you wear a suit and tie to work you are extra-equal. Quit trying to prove it suit boys.

I'm in an office, but I don't wear a suit. How do you stereotype people like that? :huh:

aunt betty wrote:Humanity goes out the window in the name of profits.
Maybe that is the way you operate, but that is just a silly stereotype.

Walmart improves the lives of the people they hire. Why the hell do you think any of them work there? Because they have a better option :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: Humanity goes out the window for people seeking power. Seeking profit, you must pay people what they are willing to accept and sell things for what people are willing to pay. Freedom is the only place where humanity is protected.

aunt betty wrote:A corporation is not human.
There are a lot of mom and pop operations that treat their workers far worse. A corporation has to worry about their image. Walmart has competition all around it in most cases. There are a whole host of Walmarts, Targets, Meijers, ... within a short drive of where I live. Something bad happens and it makes the paper. If the family run pancake house that I ate breakfast at yesterday is treating their workers like crap, who would ever know? Do they have illegals washing dishes for less than minimum wage in the back instead of hiring Americans? Who would ever know and it is a small risk to them so they are more likely to do it?

Maybe if you took a job at a corporation, you would become less human, but most people don't change. Many give into the pressure to help themselves by doing wrong. Many do what you suggest, but most do not. If we didn't have such an overbloated and corrupt system, it is far easier to enforce the laws against a few large corporations than a large number of small businesses. The big guys have far more to lose and are far easier to investigate. Of course, that turns on its head when the system is corrupt. Why do you think there are massive corporations in the large corrupt countries? It's also more efficient to shake down the large corporations with monopoly power to pass the cost of corruption on to the people.

There is a massive economy of scale that comes with corruption. Corporate wrong doing is often a reflection of the corruption of government and society. It's the same people that are voting for the politicians that are working at the corporation. When you see politicians jumping onto the boards of corporations that they have no expertise at. That's a giant red flag, but not a red flag of corporate culture. That's a red flag of a corruption based society and the corporation needs the power brokers to be successful as opposed to making the best product at the lowest cost which is what happens in a freedom based society.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby ScaupHunter » Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:20 am

slowshooter wrote:All you are confirming is that you can turn a blind eye to bad behavior if it enriches you. Take your share of that 17 billion and roll around on it, maybe it'll rub some of that Thieving Stink off of you.


You are killing me today Slow. Thanks for the laugh. You wholeheartedly support the welfare system that allows Walmart to play the game and then cry fowl when someone else points out they game the system.

Whenever you create a system you find someone who will game that system. Walmart looked at the welfare system, wages, benefits, other costs and figured out how to make huge profits, run a legal company, and help their employees bilk the very system you support. You my good man are the enabler of what you claim to despise most. Don't whine and cry when someone decides to beat the system legally. Walmart is technically doing nothing wrong in the eyes of the law. To paraphrase " Stop whining and talk to your representative if you want it changed."

The most amusing part is your failure to see the log in your own eye. Talk about haters. The liberal hate machine cry baby effect is full bore today. :lol3: Did you stomp your feet and cry a tear for all the bilked citizens too?
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Re: Detroit?

Postby High Sierras » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:50 am

slowshooter wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:Slow, Walmart is the shoppers equivalent to McDonalds. McDonalds makes a killing but no matter how much they make, the guy that works the fryer isn't going to be compensated as well as a cook at Smith & Wollenskys.

I never said he should. But what I am saying is that cramming down work hours so employees don't qualify for benefits, and are forced to seek them - as well as additional assistance from the local community, is about a skeevy as it gets.

Can we get a big thank you for obamacare???

So its now 'skeevy' in your opinion for Walmart (or any other business) to try and maintain it's financial ability to conduct business in the face of a ridiculous federal law on social engineering? Economists and business leaders warned this would be only one of the consequences of enacting the 'affordable' care act. Businesses are in business to make money, not provide jobs for the poor or middle classes. Saddle them down with silly regulations on how many hours they can work an employee before being charged more, and it's simple economics that they will find the point at which they get the most return for the least expense.

Take two full-time $10 an hour employees, working 80 hours a week total. Along comes a law that says you have to pay an additional what, $1,800 a month? to the cost of having the 2 employees there for their health care premiums. Or, you can cut their hours to 29 a week, and add a third $10 an hour employee that will bring the three employee's hours worked to 87 a week (almost a 10% increase in staffing) and save a couple hundred bucks a month by legally avoiding the additional expense of obamacare. It probably took businesses about 30 seconds to decide what direction to go with hiring and hours when they got a copy of the aca. Pelosi and the rest coudn't be bothered to read it, but I guarantee you plenty of business owners read all 2,700+ pages of it.

Whining that they're not willing to take a loss to be a part of the glorious socialist utopian dream, whining that they're horrible dirty money grubbin' thieves because they won't give their hard earned $$$ away to promote barry's socal equality dream is just sucking bitter grapes, grow up.

slowshooter wrote:The conservatives want it both ways. They complain loudly about how the poor take advantage of government help and can't climb out of poverty - then praise businesses for dodging the responsibility of the giving employees a decent wage and benefits. It's not like the nation hasn't noticed that bit of dissonance.

Slow, I'm not sure if you ever took an economics class, or even learned about the concept of a free market system, but in our system of commerce, It was NEVER businesses "responsibility" to give the masses a decent wage and benefits.

No dissonance at all between allowing business owners the freedom to choose how to run their business and allowing the welfare crowd the freedom to choose to live their lives in poverty. The dissonance comes from the ones who want to 'share' the wealth around. You know, the guy who's busy thowing billions of taxpayer dollars to the poor (ie, the democrat base) while he goes on multi-million dollar vacations to get away from the stress of being santa claus 365 days a year.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby cartervj » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:55 pm

The Government created that system, too bad you support that same Government.

The Governments motto is to penalize (tax) what they dislike and incentivize what they do like.
The Government NEEDS to be necessary to GROW, kinda simple.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby WoodyWhiffingMG » Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:45 pm

cartervj wrote:The Government created that system, too bad you support that same Government.

The Governments motto is to penalize (tax) what they dislike and incentivize what they do like.
The Government NEEDS to be necessary to GROW, kinda simple.


You know the sad thing is, it is needed for economic growth.

It is/was meant to provide a sense of national security. Without that panic and fear will not allow growth.

The perversion modern day welfare/subsidization pro people have put on federal government has caused insecurity and stifled growth.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:58 am

High Sierras wrote:No dissonance at all between allowing business owners the freedom to choose how to run their business and allowing the welfare crowd the freedom to choose to live their lives in poverty. The dissonance comes from the ones who want to 'share' the wealth around. You know, the guy who's busy thowing billions of taxpayer dollars to the poor (ie, the democrat base) while he goes on multi-million dollar vacations to get away from the stress of being santa claus 365 days a year.

It all creates horrible incentives that lead to the social dysfunction and social decay that we see.

If you are guaranteed food, housing, health care, ..., you are required to do nothing and you get a system like the Soviets where the workers pretended to work and the authorities pretended to pay them.

The free market minimizes poverty. It's the best we can do in reality. All the attempts to do better have ultimately failed and many catastrophically. But the dream of utopia on earth will never end and so will the destructiveness of the policies pushed by those naive fools.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby ScaupHunter » Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:26 am

Progressives are classic proof that you can't fix stupid. The name progressive is an oxymoron. Their entire agenda is based on a failed system. Progressive want to regress back to socilism / communism which does not work.

We all know the definition of insanity. The one where you keep doing the same thing, over, and over, and over, but keep expecting a different result. That would be our liberal bretheren at work.

What amazes and amuses me is how otherwise intelligent people are actually stupid enough to try and repeat epic failures.

We have a couple of liberals at work that are pushing to get cameras put on all city streets here. They want to be able to look for hazardous material spills and who causes them. A recent meeting on the subject came to a screeching halt when I asked them who would fund the cameras. Then how we would afford to pay someone to check them constantly, and how they figured the funding would work since we had a recent layoff here. Our fine liberal friends stomped out of that meeting in a huff with their little feelers all hurt and bent out of shape. :lol3: Reality just does not factor into their existence in any way.

My boss chuckled and slapped me on the back after we left the meeting. He jovially told me that he loves how quickly I can kill a bad idea before it gains life and momentum. That was why he included me in that particular meeting.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby tenfingergrip » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:45 am

Ever notice how Slowmind hides under a rock when Sheriff High Sierras rides into town!! :sad:
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Re: Detroit?

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:46 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:What amazes and amuses me is how otherwise intelligent people are actually stupid enough to try and repeat epic failures.
Only intelligent people can believe the dumbest ideas. They have the ability to convince themselves through twisted and convoluted logic that what is obvious common sense is not true.

ScaupHunter wrote:Then how we would afford to pay someone to check them constantly, and how they figured the funding would work since we had a recent layoff here.

If he was smart, he would have had the convoluted and twisted logic that was a tangled web of inconsistencies that wouldn't solve the problem, but sorting out the entire web of self deceit couldn't be untangled to show the simple common sense of why it would not work.

The simple answer to the funding problem.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby slowshooter » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:31 am

clampdaddy wrote:
slowshooter wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:Slow, Walmart is the shoppers equivalent to McDonalds. McDonalds makes a killing but no matter how much they make, the guy that works the fryer isn't going to be compensated as well as a cook at Smith & Wollenskys.



I never said he should. But what I am saying is that cramming down work hours so employees don't qualify for benefits, and are forced to seek them - as well as additional assistance from the local community, is about a skeevy as it gets.

The conservatives want it both ways. They complain loudly about how the poor take advantage of government help and can't climb out of poverty - then praise businesses for dodging the responsibility of the giving employees a decent wage and benefits. It's not like the nation hasn't noticed that bit of dissonance.


Find a large store that doesn't hire part timers. They all use them because when things get slow you can't just send home a full time employee that was signed on to do a minimum 40 hour week. Any part timer knows full well when they are hired that they are not going to get benefits. Their hours are now being cut........just like everybody knew would happen once Obamacare became a reality. So now they still don't have benefits......just like they knew the case would be when they signed on, but now they are are alsolooking at a fine from the federal government for not having health coverage, and they are working less hours so they have even less money to pay the fine. So who's the villain?

We use temps where I work too. They knew the deal when they signed on. The smart ones work hard and apply for full time positions as they become available. The not so smart ones won't even take advantage of things like a free to them on the job training course I do for their class A commercial drivers license, but even those guys are wishing that Obama would quit trying to help them. I had never seen so many smiles at work when they announced that the temps hours weren't going to be cut for a while because a big part of Obamacare got put off for a year.


Obamacare didn't drive companies to do as described over the past 10 years.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby slowshooter » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:48 am

ScaupHunter wrote:
slowshooter wrote:All you are confirming is that you can turn a blind eye to bad behavior if it enriches you. Take your share of that 17 billion and roll around on it, maybe it'll rub some of that Thieving Stink off of you.


You are killing me today Slow. Thanks for the laugh. You wholeheartedly support the welfare system that allows Walmart to play the game and then cry fowl when someone else points out they game the system.


Making sense is a skill. You need it.

Whenever you create a system you find someone who will game that system. Walmart looked at the welfare system, wages, benefits, other costs and figured out how to make huge profits, run a legal company, and help their employees bilk the very system you support. You my good man are the enabler of what you claim to despise most. Don't whine and cry when someone decides to beat the system legally. Walmart is technically doing nothing wrong in the eyes of the law. To paraphrase " Stop whining and talk to your representative if you want it changed."


LOL! I don't think I've seen anyone make the case that it's the welfare system enabling the most successful company in the world.

:lol3: :lol3: :lol3:

The most amusing part is your failure to see the log in your own eye. Talk about haters. The liberal hate machine cry baby effect is full bore today. :lol3: Did you stomp your feet and cry a tear for all the bilked citizens too?


You're funny. :lol3:
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Re: Detroit?

Postby slowshooter » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:50 am

High Sierras wrote:
slowshooter wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:Slow, Walmart is the shoppers equivalent to McDonalds. McDonalds makes a killing but no matter how much they make, the guy that works the fryer isn't going to be compensated as well as a cook at Smith & Wollenskys.

I never said he should. But what I am saying is that cramming down work hours so employees don't qualify for benefits, and are forced to seek them - as well as additional assistance from the local community, is about a skeevy as it gets.

Can we get a big thank you for obamacare???

So its now 'skeevy' in your opinion for Walmart (or any other business) to try and maintain it's financial ability to conduct business in the face of a ridiculous federal law on social engineering? Economists and business leaders warned this would be only one of the consequences of enacting the 'affordable' care act. Businesses are in business to make money, not provide jobs for the poor or middle classes. Saddle them down with silly regulations on how many hours they can work an employee before being charged more, and it's simple economics that they will find the point at which they get the most return for the least expense.

Take two full-time $10 an hour employees, working 80 hours a week total. Along comes a law that says you have to pay an additional what, $1,800 a month? to the cost of having the 2 employees there for their health care premiums. Or, you can cut their hours to 29 a week, and add a third $10 an hour employee that will bring the three employee's hours worked to 87 a week (almost a 10% increase in staffing) and save a couple hundred bucks a month by legally avoiding the additional expense of obamacare. It probably took businesses about 30 seconds to decide what direction to go with hiring and hours when they got a copy of the aca. Pelosi and the rest coudn't be bothered to read it, but I guarantee you plenty of business owners read all 2,700+ pages of it.

Whining that they're not willing to take a loss to be a part of the glorious socialist utopian dream, whining that they're horrible dirty money grubbin' thieves because they won't give their hard earned $$$ away to promote barry's socal equality dream is just sucking bitter grapes, grow up.

slowshooter wrote:The conservatives want it both ways. They complain loudly about how the poor take advantage of government help and can't climb out of poverty - then praise businesses for dodging the responsibility of the giving employees a decent wage and benefits. It's not like the nation hasn't noticed that bit of dissonance.

Slow, I'm not sure if you ever took an economics class, or even learned about the concept of a free market system, but in our system of commerce, It was NEVER businesses "responsibility" to give the masses a decent wage and benefits.

No dissonance at all between allowing business owners the freedom to choose how to run their business and allowing the welfare crowd the freedom to choose to live their lives in poverty. The dissonance comes from the ones who want to 'share' the wealth around. You know, the guy who's busy thowing billions of taxpayer dollars to the poor (ie, the democrat base) while he goes on multi-million dollar vacations to get away from the stress of being santa claus 365 days a year.


So you throw in with Woody. Honestly I thought you had more character.
All this for a bowl of borscht.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby slowshooter » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:51 am

cartervj wrote:The Government created that system, too bad you support that same Government.

The Governments motto is to penalize (tax) what they dislike and incentivize what they do like.
The Government NEEDS to be necessary to GROW, kinda simple.



Supporting our nation is not supporting government policy. I know you can think better than that.
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