Detroit?

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Re: Detroit?

Postby slowshooter » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:41 pm

Andy W wrote:
slowshooter wrote:
IRS scandal? Non existant. Benghazi scandal? Non existant. Obama is a manchurian candidate? Crazy. Birthers? Extra crazy. Tea Partiers? Old crazy racists with anger issues.
I may be old but I'm neither angry or racist and just a little crazy.


You aren't that old and you are good crazy. :hammer:


The Right is so low there is nothing beneath them. (except the left) And that's exactly how they operate.

I see you're off your medication, please get those scripts filled.


Good idea. But my heroin dealer just took a job at Facebook. :lol3:
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Re: Detroit?

Postby WoodyWhiffingMG » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:18 pm

slowshooter wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
slowshooter wrote: ...That Germany is successful and has strong Unions should be a lesson to us......
. Yeah, let's be like Germany and instead of being #1 in the world for median annual income we can be #20. Sounds like a great plan for the middle class. :rolleyes:
The level of ignorance on how poor most of Europe is, even among European's always amazes me. I was just talking with a French coworker who was actually aware of how relatively poor they are or at least was willing to admit it :eek:



The facts are that most of the US is poor as well - and those ranks are swelling. Thank your Congress.

If the French were all that worried about it they would en masse flee elsewhere. Looks like they are staying put.


Like it is hard to quit crack, it is hard to quit welfare.

Once you have been told you're entitled and you feel you're entitled, would you leave for greener pastures if it meant working harder?
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Re: Detroit?

Postby slowshooter » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:33 pm

WoodyWhiffingMG wrote:
slowshooter wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
slowshooter wrote: ...That Germany is successful and has strong Unions should be a lesson to us......
. Yeah, let's be like Germany and instead of being #1 in the world for median annual income we can be #20. Sounds like a great plan for the middle class. :rolleyes:
The level of ignorance on how poor most of Europe is, even among European's always amazes me. I was just talking with a French coworker who was actually aware of how relatively poor they are or at least was willing to admit it :eek:



The facts are that most of the US is poor as well - and those ranks are swelling. Thank your Congress.

If the French were all that worried about it they would en masse flee elsewhere. Looks like they are staying put.


Like it is hard to quit crack, it is hard to quit welfare.

Once you have been told you're entitled and you feel you're entitled, would you leave for greener pastures if it meant working harder?


Ask the French. Spinner implied they hated being in France.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby vincentpa » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:42 pm

slowshooter wrote:
WoodyWhiffingMG wrote:
slowshooter wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
slowshooter wrote: ...That Germany is successful and has strong Unions should be a lesson to us......
. Yeah, let's be like Germany and instead of being #1 in the world for median annual income we can be #20. Sounds like a great plan for the middle class. :rolleyes:
The level of ignorance on how poor most of Europe is, even among European's always amazes me. I was just talking with a French coworker who was actually aware of how relatively poor they are or at least was willing to admit it :eek:



The facts are that most of the US is poor as well - and those ranks are swelling. Thank your Congress.

If the French were all that worried about it they would en masse flee elsewhere. Looks like they are staying put.


Like it is hard to quit crack, it is hard to quit welfare.

Once you have been told you're entitled and you feel you're entitled, would you leave for greener pastures if it meant working harder?


Ask the French. Spinner implied they hated being in France.


Spinner stated no such thing. He stated they were ignorant, which they are. On a spending level, the median Western European has about as much spending power as American poor.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby slowshooter » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:20 pm

WoodyWhiffingMG wrote:
I don't even know where to start.
First you have made an assumption and you were wrong.
I am not a republican,


Did I say you were a Republican? I don't remember that. I did imply you supported them though.


but I do have a particularly large hatred for liberals.


Now you are just making stuff up because no one has a large hatred of Liberals. We're all about good sex, great drugs and hot babes. Who doesn't love that?

Where I just have a slight displeasure for the republicans.


What?

Why is that?

Because you have confused the word "slight" with "gargantuan". :lol3:

Because there is at least a hint of capitalism in their platform.


You got good copped bad copped. FYI the good cop is still not your friend.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby ScaupHunter » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:24 pm

The drugs clearly interfere with slows judgement. Hairy stinky chicks with dreadlocks aren't hot.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby slowshooter » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:36 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:The drugs clearly interfere with slows judgement. Hairy stinky chicks with dreadlocks aren't hot.


LOL. :lol3:
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Re: Detroit?

Postby clampdaddy » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:08 pm

Delteted double post.
Last edited by clampdaddy on Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby clampdaddy » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:09 pm

slowshooter wrote: ....They aren't negotiate themselves out of jobs....
And a professional gambler with an ace in the hole doesn't play cards to loose but once in a while it still happens. The latest one that comes to mind was Hostess. I feel bad for those people that lost their jobs because their union had them convinced that going on strike was a good idea in an economic time like this. I'm curious as to how many people went on strike during the last depression. We may not agree on this issue but I stand by my belief that the UAW holds the lions share of blame for the fall of Detroit (oil/fuel prices being another major contributer). As I stated earlier, when you are being squeezed to pay an unskilled assembly line worker as much or more than an actual auto tech makes, why wouldn't they set up shop somewhere else? That's not corporate greed, that's basic math.


......Yeah, but on this board you don't hear a lot of pro union talk......
You don't hear a lot of pro politician talk either. They are one in the same. Today I saw a quote of yours that I really liked. You told someone "you got good cop, bad copped". Well...... :lol3:



Who says that profits are bad? I don't. I love them. However when profits are made by pilfering the public treasury with unneeded tax breaks, ate welfare.......
This will just be a rehash of our debate last week or the week before. You call it corporate welfare, I call it incentive to keep big business from taking those jobs overseas
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Re: Detroit?

Postby swampbilly 1980 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:56 am

slowshooter wrote:Then you don't understand why unions exist. They aren't negotiate themselves out of jobs, they are negotiating for pay and benefits they believe will give their members a decent wage. If you can't see that difference I guess we're never going to agree that they serve their purpose (and I completely agree that is not always to the benefit of the public).

Slow-
After having previously worked in a large company that was unionized for 28yrs., I feel fairly qualified based on my experiences to give you a little more of a "real-life" reason for why Unions exist, (at least THAT particular Union)-

It was to to represent, (protect), folks, who didn't want to work, or couldn't do their jobs, and make sure that THEY got equal wages the same as the folks who DO want to work and put EFFORT into their work.

In fact, folks who DID their job wound up performing the tasks that others weren't even qualified to do, yet we're promoted into job classifications to satisfy EEO, (1972).
In other words-
You did YOUR job, and the jobs of others because they were promoted into jobs they were not qualified to do simply because they were a minority..you know- political correctness :wink:
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Re: Detroit?

Postby TomKat » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:02 am

You know whats really cool? Use google earth to look at street images of Detroit, especially the NE side.

They are all bright and sunny, no way was that google car going there towards evening!
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Re: Detroit?

Postby Andy W » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:53 am

swampbilly 1980 wrote:It was to to represent, (protect), folks, who didn't want to work, or couldn't do their jobs, and make sure that THEY got equal wages the same as the folks who DO want to work and put EFFORT into their work.


As Barry says, you gotta spread the wealth around.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby ScaupHunter » Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:48 am

TomKat wrote:You know whats really cool? Use google earth to look at street images of Detroit, especially the NE side.

They are all bright and sunny, no way was that google car going there towards evening!


I would not roll into that part of town with out some serious firepower, a bunch of extra ammo, and hopefully some back up late in the day. :beer: There are parts of many cities where the dictum of be wise stay away apply. I can think of a few in Atlanta, LA, and Portland, Oregon for starters.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby SpinnerMan » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:34 am

ScaupHunter wrote:
TomKat wrote:You know whats really cool? Use google earth to look at street images of Detroit, especially the NE side.

They are all bright and sunny, no way was that google car going there towards evening!


I would not roll into that part of town with out some serious firepower, a bunch of extra ammo, and hopefully some back up late in the day. :beer: There are parts of many cities where the dictum of be wise stay away apply. I can think of a few in Atlanta, LA, and Portland, Oregon for starters.
And the compassionate, carrying Democrat politicians and their community organizing machine let their constituents live like this in 21st century America. Not to worry, when they get shot, raped, or beaten, the health care is free :thumbsup:
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Re: Detroit?

Postby Indaswamp » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:48 pm

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Re: Detroit?

Postby slowshooter » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:22 pm

clampdaddy wrote:
slowshooter wrote: ....They aren't negotiate themselves out of jobs....
And a professional gambler with an ace in the hole doesn't play cards to loose but once in a while it still happens. The latest one that comes to mind was Hostess. I feel bad for those people that lost their jobs because their union had them convinced that going on strike was a good idea in an economic time like this.


Like I said, not every union is good. Even the teamsters told them not to strike. But they were stupid, played chicken and lost. But the problems with that company go way back beyond that event. The company could have and should have been wiser when originally negotiating with the unions - and when determining their own executive compensation. When you are holding 2 billion in unfunded pensions and losing a few million a day, it's pretty easy to see that there were some major dumbasses running the show. If you can't fund both and keep the business running then compromise is skill that should be quickly learned.

Too bad the union couldn't see the forest for the trees.

I'm curious as to how many people went on strike during the last depression.


In an interesting bit of history there. The unions then are facing the same thing that unions are now... Shrinking numbers and power, because they are facing the same economic woes that were faced during the depression. As well as a government that has been taken over by the 1%. There isn't any money out there for the middle class and there wasn't any then either.

We may not agree on this issue but I stand by my belief that the UAW holds the lions share of blame for the fall of Detroit (oil/fuel prices being another major contributer).


Three things failed the city and brought it to it's knees. The Unions, the City Leadership, and the Corporations that employed most of the residents. There isn't one that sucks more than the other. Well, I take that back a little. The leadership hasn't ever gotten better even as the companies and unions are no longer the players they used to be. The Mayor(s) and city needed to plan for the inevitable… They didn't.

As I stated earlier, when you are being squeezed to pay an unskilled assembly line worker as much or more than an actual auto tech makes, why wouldn't they set up shop somewhere else? That's not corporate greed, that's basic math.


If they are paying the unskilled as much or more than a skilled worker then I'm presuming that they are incapable of basic math. And probably can't negotiate with a union as well. That would be the first problem they should solve.

I'm okay with a corporation negotiating with workers to get the best deal for both of them. I'm leery of corporations that rob the public and return nothing to the city or state.

......Yeah, but on this board you don't hear a lot of pro union talk......
You don't hear a lot of pro politician talk either. They are one in the same. Today I saw a quote of yours that I really liked. You told someone "you got good cop, bad copped". Well...... :lol3:

Who says that profits are bad? I don't. I love them. However when profits are made by pilfering the public treasury with unneeded tax breaks, ate welfare...

This will just be a rehash of our debate last week or the week before. You call it corporate welfare, I call it incentive to keep big business from taking those jobs overseas


Incentive? Nope. Tell me where the jobs that used to be in USA went?

Apparently incentives don't work. Especially when a community gets nothing back for the incentives they hand out.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby clampdaddy » Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:00 am

slowshooter wrote:Incentive? Nope. Tell me where the jobs that used to be in USA went?

Apparently incentives don't work. Especially when a community gets nothing back for the incentives they hand out.


What "hand out" does the community give? If you have more tax write offs than me does that mean I gave you a hand out? The community gets nothing back? Sure they do. Employment and cash flow, but that only works if the company stays.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby slowshooter » Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:27 am

ScaupHunter wrote:
TomKat wrote:You know whats really cool? Use google earth to look at street images of Detroit, especially the NE side.

They are all bright and sunny, no way was that google car going there towards evening!


I would not roll into that part of town with out some serious firepower, a bunch of extra ammo, and hopefully some back up late in the day. :beer: There are parts of many cities where the dictum of be wise stay away apply. I can think of a few in Atlanta, LA, and Portland, Oregon for starters.


I feel perfectly safe in all three cities. Ya big baby. :lol3:
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Re: Detroit?

Postby SpinnerMan » Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:42 am

slowshooter wrote:Incentive? Nope. Tell me where the jobs that used to be in USA went?
I don't know. Where do you think all the stable operators went? I don't have anywhere to park or service my horse and wagon when I go into Chicago. Where did all those jobs go? :huh: Maybe with a little government incentive they could have kept them going into the 21st century. I'm sure that all those kids with their fresh college degrees would love to shovel horse manure. I'm sure all the people on food stamps would like to give them up to bust their ass at an unpleasant job.

I worked a factory job during summer when I was in college. There are many jobs that are mindless and any idiot can do. So why on earth would you pay more than what you can hire any idiot for? Turning the job an idiot can do into a "career" is economic suicide because you can't stop the competitor from hiring idiots and selling the same product for less money.

If U.S. law forces the competition to set up shop outside the U.S., how do you do that without screwing up all the other "legitimate" trade? :huh: If the job left for this reason, it harms everybody because it leaves the idiot unemployed.

If there are jobs that pay that same idiot even more and they must go to a third world country to find an idiot willing to work for less than the U.S. idiot. That's a good thing for America and the people in that country. The idiot in America gets payed more and gets to buy the product made by the foreign idiot for less and his quality of life improves.

If you are talking about skilled labor, it's not any different. Of course, how many people think of themselves as skilled labor when in reality they are doing a job any idiot can do. When I was flipping and stacking doors for 8 hours a day, I had no doubt that any idiot could be trained to do this job in about 5 minutes, but thanks to the union I got paid well :thumbsup: I don't know why that company couldn't compete. :huh:
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Re: Detroit?

Postby TomKat » Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:44 am

Slow, its easy to say that in sunny CA....another thing entirely to be at 25th and Prospect at 3 AM.....just saying
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Re: Detroit?

Postby cartervj » Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:00 am

Try Orange Mound in the sun shine, it's not for some I promise. Consider yourself lucky if you only hear gunfire.

and it's the Republicans fault, even though there hasn't been one in office in eons :lol3:
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Re: Detroit?

Postby WoodyWhiffingMG » Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:01 am

TomKat wrote:Slow, its easy to say that in sunny CA....another thing entirely to be at 25th and Prospect at 3 AM.....just saying


Take it from someone who frequented that part of town for work, GM built plants in some scary places, we always left long before dark for a reason, our cars were parked behind a locked gate and watched by an armed guard for a reason...
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Re: Detroit?

Postby slowshooter » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:37 am

clampdaddy wrote:
slowshooter wrote:Incentive? Nope. Tell me where the jobs that used to be in USA went?

Apparently incentives don't work. Especially when a community gets nothing back for the incentives they hand out.


What "hand out" does the community give? If you have more tax write offs than me does that mean I gave you a hand out? The community gets nothing back? Sure they do. Employment and cash flow, but that only works if the company stays.


Really? When does the community get enriched by Walmart?

Workers aren't given enough hours to get full time benefits and are paid low wages. While that saves the company money worker seek help from the community to make ends meet. That assistance in the form of medical care, subsidized housing and food stamps. Wisconsin did a study and found that it cost the community over 900,000 dollars a year to have a Walmart in town. That's just one store. And that's also before anyone talks about local tax breaks given just to break ground.

I'm not saying that it's bad to work with a corporation to come to town. Or give them incentives. I'm saying it's bad when a company that makes 17 billion a year has it's employees on public assistance.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby WoodyWhiffingMG » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:40 pm

slowshooter wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
slowshooter wrote:Incentive? Nope. Tell me where the jobs that used to be in USA went?

Apparently incentives don't work. Especially when a community gets nothing back for the incentives they hand out.


What "hand out" does the community give? If you have more tax write offs than me does that mean I gave you a hand out? The community gets nothing back? Sure they do. Employment and cash flow, but that only works if the company stays.


Really? When does the community get enriched by Walmart?

Workers aren't given enough hours to get full time benefits and are paid low wages. While that saves the company money worker seek help from the community to make ends meet. That assistance in the form of medical care, subsidized housing and food stamps. Wisconsin did a study and found that it cost the community over 900,000 dollars a year to have a Walmart in town. That's just one store. And that's also before anyone talks about local tax breaks given just to break ground.

I'm not saying that it's bad to work with a corporation to come to town. Or give them incentives. I'm saying it's bad when a company that makes 17 billion a year has it's employees on public assistance.


That 17 billion is given to the investors, people like you and me. That is how the world is supposed to operate. Those who put time and effort in to their lives and careers get paid more so they can invest and retire. If we paid all of the slackers livable wages, the cost of living would skyrocket and all of us would be poor. Minimum wage jobs are meant to be transition jobs, not careers. If some guy or gal doesn't want to put the time in to further their level of success it is not my responsibility to worry about them. I have enough to worry about on my own.
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Re: Detroit?

Postby aunt betty » Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:39 pm

A govt can not stand without a stable tax base. In the 80's Detroit made a whole lot of crappy cars. Planned obsolecence...
People started buying Toyotas. Detroit went belly up. Assigning blame is dumb. Its over. Burn it.
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