Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby High Sierras » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:47 am

SpinnerMan wrote: This is why the unions will succeed in killing the use of drone trucks. It has nothing to do with the ability to safely put a container on a truck in the gulf port of Charleston (who am I to argue with the President) and send it cross country to a distribution center in California.


For this example only, the railroad union already has. No drone can compete with the ability to haul 65-70 RR cars double stacked with no stops for fuel, traffic or weather for thousands of miles...Double stacked container trains seem to be about half the train traffic over the central Sierras anymore. Sad part is the ones heading west all seem to be empty containers heading down to the ports of SF to pick up more cheap Chinese (and other Asian rim countries...) crap for the folks to the east.
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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby Elvis Kiwi » Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:15 pm

horses for courses. trains trucks ships and planes are all different. you MAY be able to send a train on remote control/auto pilot, same with a ship. things have got better since Mount Eurabus claimed all those lives from an air NZ flight all those years ago, but a train has tracks to follow and cant blow out a tyre.
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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby beretta24 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:41 pm

Elvis Kiwi wrote:horses for courses. trains trucks ships and planes are all different. you MAY be able to send a train on remote control/auto pilot, same with a ship. things have got better since Mount Eurabus claimed all those lives from an air NZ flight all those years ago, but a train has tracks to follow and cant blow out a tyre.


I think the ability to set up detection and controls to mitigate a flat tire isn't even close to the limiting factor. We have the capability to do that today. Escpecially on an 18 wheeler where the relative impact of a blow tire is most often less than on a passenger car, with respect to vehicle stability.
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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby Elvis Kiwi » Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:39 am

yea that may well be the case but if you are loaded up to the gunnels and rounding a bend...well the nicotine stains in your undies will tell how scarey/risky it really is :oops:
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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby SpinnerMan » Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:30 am

They don't have to do every load under every condition :fingerhead:
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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby Elvis Kiwi » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:32 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:They don't have to do every load under every condition :fingerhead:

so there for....you still need a man behind the wheel of a truck to get the final job done...the same with a train..it cant go door to door :thumbsup:
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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby beretta24 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:52 am

Today
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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby ohioboy » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:49 am

beretta24 wrote:Today

...is now yesterday?
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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:52 am

Elvis Kiwi wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:They don't have to do every load under every condition :fingerhead:

so there for....you still need a man behind the wheel of a truck to get the final job done...the same with a train..it cant go door to door :thumbsup:

No. Finding examples where you will continue to need a man behind the wheel does not prove that there are loads that will not require a man behind a wheel :thumbsup:

I ride a train with no man behind the wheel all the time :yes:

Granted it will never fly to the moon, but it does not have to, does it?

Unmanned truck only need fulfill a portion of the market to have value.

If your point is that even if the unmanned trucks displace 90% of the drivers, there will still be drivers and kids will always know what a truck driver is, then of course that is true. I was assuming Indaswamp was sarcastic with the title. However, I have little doubt that the technology could be as safe or safer than current manned technology. I also have little doubt that under much of the conditions for routine shipments that the technology can be made such that having a man sitting in the seat has far less value than the cost of paying someone to sit there and therefore society would be better off not wasting resource to pay the guy to sit there.
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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby Elvis Kiwi » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:11 am

nowhere near 90% of drivers...5% maybe but in the role of a train...so not needed if the tracks are already there.
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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby beretta24 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:43 am

Elvis Kiwi wrote:nowhere near 90% of drivers...5% maybe but in the role of a train...so not needed if the tracks are already there.

Where are you getting the 5% figure from? What's your justification for that figure?
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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby Elvis Kiwi » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:58 am

I work in a truck.
I have done so for years
the freight shifting business is cut throat...not much cream on the milk so to speak
carting goods between main centers is over catered for now so for another "player" get a foot in the door they would have to offer something pretty good.
today I worked beside SH1 N.Zs main road (it runs the length of the country) observing the traffic that went past and what sort of loads they carted, behind us only 100yards away runs the main trunk railway...again observing what was carted...mostly containers
in our wee country roading can go from great to very much not so great by simply turning a corner.
we have just changed the rules for heavy trucks...we have had a 44000kg limit on trucks but now with a few conditions they can go over 50000kg BUT only on certain roads(very nice trucks 4 axle with 5 axle trailer)
the "human factor" being able to problem solve by doing more for customer than what the job asked for..eg we had a truck load of tyres overdue to be picked up from major city 2 hours up the road..I jumped in a furniture truck and went and collected them to get the job done and keep client happy...now driving down the road I thought?????who wants this many steerer truck tyres at once :huh: :huh: only one place came to mind a dairy factory on the way to final destination so I rang delivery adress and asked if they wanted them dropped off there???? they had a guy out there to help recieve them and having a furniture ramp ment I backed up to shed door and rolled them right in :thumbsup: result a very happy end customer who 3 hours before was getting irate.
its the little things that make the difference.
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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby beretta24 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:19 am

Elvis Kiwi wrote:I work in a truck.
I have done so for years
the freight shifting business is cut throat...not much cream on the milk so to speak
carting goods between main centers is over catered for now so for another "player" get a foot in the door they would have to offer something pretty good.
today I worked beside SH1 N.Zs main road (it runs the length of the country) observing the traffic that went past and what sort of loads they carted, behind us only 100yards away runs the main trunk railway...again observing what was carted...mostly containers
in our wee country roading can go from great to very much not so great by simply turning a corner.
we have just changed the rules for heavy trucks...we have had a 44000kg limit on trucks but now with a few conditions they can go over 50000kg BUT only on certain roads(very nice trucks 4 axle with 5 axle trailer)
the "human factor" being able to problem solve by doing more for customer than what the job asked for..eg we had a truck load of tyres overdue to be picked up from major city 2 hours up the road..I jumped in a furniture truck and went and collected them to get the job done and keep client happy...now driving down the road I thought?????who wants this many steerer truck tyres at once :huh: :huh: only one place came to mind a dairy factory on the way to final destination so I rang delivery adress and asked if they wanted them dropped off there???? they had a guy out there to help recieve them and having a furniture ramp ment I backed up to shed door and rolled them right in :thumbsup: result a very happy end customer who 3 hours before was getting irate.
its the little things that make the difference.

No doubt on that last part. I'd be surprised if people are ever removed all the way. But don't underestimate the capability of today's technology and get caught with your pants down. Its not just a matter of what people can get a truck to do...a lot can be done to compensate for a limitation in one area by making changes in another.
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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby cartervj » Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:26 pm

“Nothing makes me more certain of the victory of our ideas than our success in the universities” – Adolf H, 1930
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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:38 pm

How many hours in a day can a manned truck drive and how many must it sit idle not earning while the driver rests?

Unmanned trucks can run nearly 24/7/365. They can therefore run slower and with smaller loads and still be competitive.

How dramatically would the system be reconfigured if this technology were available? Who knows, but it is likely that it would change in ways that cannot be imagined.

What is the difference between being behind the wheel and being behind a wheel looking at monitors and getting all the feed back? You could have a driver in a central facility take over when necessary and when it is on long straight runs on the interstate, it goes on autopilot. There are so many ways this could work that would greatly reduce the need for drivers, not eliminate, but reduce the need wayyyyyy more than 5%.
A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.
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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby Elvis Kiwi » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:28 am

here in Godzone I can drive for 5 1/2 hours then 30 minute break,another 5 1/2 then 30 minute break then a final 2 hours driving/work. or more importantly you MUST have 10 consecutive hours off in a 24 hour period. you can double shift a truck easy as with 2 drivers keeping it going 24hrs per day. they do it with milk tankers now.
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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:23 am

They CAN double shift, but they don't in most cases and there is a variety of reasons, but the big one is almost certainly that people are not cheap AND THAT IS A GOOD THING. Computers are which is also a good thing and part of the reason people are not. I know you primarily get paid by the miles driven. Doubling up would cut your miles quite a bit. The truck would get a lot more, but not double. Maybe 50% because of waiting time to load and unload, etc. So you would have to reduce your total compensation by 25%, not just miles, total value of all benefits included if they double you up and the company would have even more expense associated with double the number of employees. You'd go somewhere else if they cut your pay that much, so unless it is something that is very time sensitive, they will not pay the premium. They don't have to pay a premium to get 24/7 out of a truck to haul even the cheapest crap.

It doesn't matter because we will never have an honest fact based assessment of whether the trucks can meet acceptable safety standards. It will be fear driven. Now if a truck driver falls a sleep and flattens a school bus full of rich kids while it is being debated, it passes. Otherwise, we will never allow the terminator trucks on the road.
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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby assateague » Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:27 am

If this thread was titled "Daddy, What Was a Horse Rider?", the responses would have been far different. But since we're stuck in the arrogant "we are the pinnacle of civilization" belief, you get what we have here.
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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby Elvis Kiwi » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:33 am

not sure where you are aiming with that "pinacle" remark???
and most truck drivers over here are wage slaves on a hourly pay rate so miles driven doesnt come into it.
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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby Glimmerjim » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:41 am

Elvis Kiwi wrote:not sure where you are aiming with that "pinacle" remark???
and most truck drivers over here are wage slaves on a hourly pay rate so miles driven doesnt come into it.

I would think that would be a huge plus, Elvis. It takes the responsibility for your pay in your time invested rather a million other variables out of your control.
If I may speak for AT (I'm bored), he just means that many don't assume that we will continue to advance technologically. That we have reached the apex of civilization and there is nothing left to discover or reveal. In his, and my, opinion, nothing could be further from the truth. The advance of technology is exponentially exploding, with "more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

That's from a 16th century Stones song, AT! :lol3:
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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby Elvis Kiwi » Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:42 am

the pity its not a huge pay!!!! :yes: :yes:
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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby Glimmerjim » Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:08 am

Elvis Kiwi wrote:the pity its not a huge pay!!!! :yes: :yes:

Do you have owner/operators there and is that more lucrative? By the way, do you trout fish? I've seen some amazing shows on NZ trout fishing!
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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby Indaswamp » Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:36 pm

The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby assateague » Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:28 pm

Glimmerjim wrote:
Elvis Kiwi wrote:not sure where you are aiming with that "pinacle" remark???
and most truck drivers over here are wage slaves on a hourly pay rate so miles driven doesnt come into it.

I would think that would be a huge plus, Elvis. It takes the responsibility for your pay in your time invested rather a million other variables out of your control.
If I may speak for AT (I'm bored), he just means that many don't assume that we will continue to advance technologically. That we have reached the apex of civilization and there is nothing left to discover or reveal. In his, and my, opinion, nothing could be further from the truth. The advance of technology is exponentially exploding, with "more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

That's from a 16th century Stones song, AT! :lol3:



Thanks GJ. That's exactly what I mean.


Ironically enough, I think it's no surprise that I am "conservative" to a fault when it comes to societal/governance issues. But anything else is fair game. No such thing as "we don't need to try that", or "it'll never happen". Even worse- "It can't work".
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Re: Daddy, What Was a Truck Driver?

Postby Elvis Kiwi » Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:12 am

Glimmerjim wrote:
Elvis Kiwi wrote:the pity its not a huge pay!!!! :yes: :yes:

Do you have owner/operators there and is that more lucrative? By the way, do you trout fish? I've seen some amazing shows on NZ trout fishing!

owner/operator is a double edged sword...when things get tight they are the first to get no work..that goes to company owners guys.
as for trout....
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