MDC sucks

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MDC sucks

Postby NutsForDucks » Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:33 pm

Just toured the wonderful MDC today. Per the Kansas waterfowl news update, hardly any water in the marshes for early teal (confirmed today). To make matters worse, no corn planted in the usual pool, just weeds and corn stalks. MDC just went from marginal to worse in my opinion. I feel like area managers could be doing a much better job. That area has had massive rain and I would think you would want to start impounding by now. I won't get started with how unhelpful the manager (Karl Karrow) is. Last year I called asking for some information on the water situations in the pools. He gave me a bs response that there wasn't much there. Sure enough when I visited, plenty of water. I'll still hunt it as a back up spot, but very disappointed for the upcoming season.
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Re: MDC sucks

Postby n2ducks » Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:40 pm

I'm really not sure what the surprise is. Sounds pretty typical of MDC
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Re: MDC sucks

Postby NutsForDucks » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:06 pm

Just kind of felt like complaining. Why no corn though? Say goodbye to any major late season prospects
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Re: MDC sucks

Postby cluckmeister » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:12 pm

Sounds like a lazy manager to me. We experienced a manager like that at a NWR near me, Id call for waterfowl populations and hed say not much around, Id go hunting anyway and there where always plenty of birds. Thank goodness he retired a few years back, now he have an excellent fellow for a manager and he works hard at improving the area.
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Re: MDC sucks

Postby EcatMagoo » Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:26 am

MDC will be fine this year. They never start pumping water this early. The pools will be holding water and there will be plenty of ducks to shoot.
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Re: MDC sucks

Postby cyoung24 » Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:43 am

With the plentiful rain this year there is no reason to pump yet and no reason to plug the pools to let them fill. I'm sure they are letting the moist soil foods grow before flooding, the sooner they flood the sooner the food dies. Also they rotate the pools that they plant with corn, did you look for it in the other pools. I would definitely check the facts before calling them lazy. The ground could have been too wet to get a tractor in or their budget could have been cut, corns not cheap and those weeds also known as duck food are free for the most part. The corn's ok late, or are you upset that its the only place walkers can hide late in the season when all the grass is beaten down.
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Re: MDC sucks

Postby NutsForDucks » Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:05 pm

Still disappointing. Didn't see corn anywhere else but skipped a pool which has never had corn. I'll still hunt here, but definitely room for improvement.
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Re: MDC sucks

Postby NutsForDucks » Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:12 pm

To my point, a few acres of corn (all the farms adjacent have great looking corn) and little water:

http://www.kdwpt.state.ks.us/news/Hunti ... CENT-RAINS

It's like the one wildlife area with less than optimistic prospects.

Done with my rant.
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Re: MDC sucks

Postby Simply2Big » Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:56 pm

Karl Karrow is a crock of a manager. He is completely unhelpful and lazy. MDC is a fantastic area that is no where near living up to it's potential. I hate that my tax dollars pay a penny of his salary.
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Re: MDC sucks

Postby Simply2Big » Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:56 pm

I don't even waste my time going down there anymore.
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Re: MDC sucks

Postby cyoung24 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:06 pm

Simply2Big wrote:I don't even waste my time going down there anymore.

I'm glad you don't. I wish more people wouldn't waste their time there either.
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Re: MDC sucks

Postby cyoung24 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:32 pm

Simply2Big wrote:Karl Karrow is a crock of a manager. He is completely unhelpful and lazy. MDC is a fantastic area that is no where near living up to it's potential. I hate that my tax dollars pay a penny of his salary.

Please explain why and how. You can say he's lazy and unhelpful and the place is a crock but please say how you came to these conclusions.

NutsForDucks wrote:To my point, a few acres of corn (all the farms adjacent have great looking corn) and little water:

http://www.kdwpt.state.ks.us/news/Hunti ... CENT-RAINS

It's like the one wildlife area with less than optimistic prospects.

Done with my rant.

The farms around there are crop fields not wetlands made to collect water. I had a good conversation with Karl last year and he seems like a guy that is not going to freely give out info when you can find out yourself. I think he feels the same way a lot of us do in that he is not going to post how great everything is on the Internet so everybody and their mother comes down. I also wouldn't be surprised if his budget was cut by the commission after hearing his strong displeasure of how they work. They don't have nearly the staff of some other areas. The place was in incredibly good shape last year despite the drought. They did a fantastic job basically saving the place. That being said the place I probably gonna be terrible this season and all the other KS marshes will be fantastic. So everyone should avoid MDC this season.
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Re: MDC sucks

Postby cluckmeister » Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:14 pm

Hey fellows since MDC is gonna suck this year, how about we send all the damned Whooping Cranes from Quivira over your way. I have a feeling that since Quivira is full of water the Cranes will stay until freeze up virtually wiping out most of the good duck hunting . I for one will be glad when they get the new rules at Quivira in affect.
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Re: MDC sucks

Postby NutsForDucks » Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:25 pm

cyoung24 wrote:The farms around there are crop fields not wetlands made to collect water Explain then how places like Four Rivers and every other managed wetland is able to grow corn, flood it, drain, harvest, repeat the cycle, etc and continue to do this year after year? The conditions couldn't have been better for planting - heck, they harvested the old corn so I really don't know what the problem was I had a good conversation with Karl last year and he seems like a guy that is not going to freely give out info when you can find out yourself. I think he feels the same way a lot of us do in that he is not going to post how great everything is on the Internet so everybody and their mother comes down.If he was a good manager, he would be insuring that hunters were provided good and accurate information. The county and surrounding towns reap direct benefits from people coming down to recreate at this place. It's a decent driver of the local economy. I also wouldn't be surprised if his budget was cut by the commission after hearing his strong displeasure of how they work. They don't have nearly the staff of some other areas. The place was in incredibly good shape last year despite the drought. The place had it's days, but was not that great. They did a fantastic job basically saving the place. That being said the place I probably gonna be terrible this season and all the other KS marshes will be fantastic. So everyone should avoid MDC this season.I'll agree with this. Nothing a duck hunter hates more than another duck hunter.
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Re: MDC sucks

Postby ks_waterfowler » Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:29 pm

A couple years ago the gravel budget at 4 rivers was larger than the entire operating budget for MDC. If you think that place is bad, wait till you see another SE Kansas refuge. Water is so high on it right now you can't even see the top of the leevees.
whistlin_wings wrote:I grew up in a neighborhood with only 3 pools and a public golf course. Thug life is all I know.
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Re: MDC sucks

Postby cyoung24 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:15 pm

NutsForDucks wrote:
cyoung24 wrote:The farms around there are crop fields not wetlands made to collect water Explain then how places like Four Rivers and every other managed wetland is able to grow corn, flood it, drain, harvest, repeat the cycle, etc and continue to do this year after year? The conditions couldn't have been better for planting - heck, they harvested the old corn so I really don't know what the problem was I had a good conversation with Karl last year and he seems like a guy that is not going to freely give out info when you can find out yourself. I think he feels the same way a lot of us do in that he is not going to post how great everything is on the Internet so everybody and their mother comes down.If he was a good manager, he would be insuring that hunters were provided good and accurate information. The county and surrounding towns reap direct benefits from people coming down to recreate at this place. It's a decent driver of the local economy. I also wouldn't be surprised if his budget was cut by the commission after hearing his strong displeasure of how they work. They don't have nearly the staff of some other areas. The place was in incredibly good shape last year despite the drought. The place had it's days, but was not that great. They did a fantastic job basically saving the place. That being said the place I probably gonna be terrible this season and all the other KS marshes will be fantastic. So everyone should avoid MDC this season.I'll agree with this. Nothing a duck hunter hates more than another duck hunter.


Ok. Every wildlife area is essentially a different ecosystem, for that matter each unit/pool is different. How did almost all corn crops fail last year yet the one at MDC survived. We had a record draught the last 2 years yet one KS refuge was flooded out. Neosho stated online that their corn crop failed the first time and may fail the second try. So if they don't have corn does that make them worthless too. Everywhere is different.
If there is no corn this year when there is corn everywhere else (as you've stated) MDC is ruined. Yet last year MDC had corn and pretty much nobody else did, the season was not that good (as you've stated).
Also to compare 4 Rivers, or any MO wetland, to MDC is asinine. The MO conservation dept is one of the richest in the country. There is a sales tax that is solely devoted to the conservation dept. 4 Rivers is also newer and I'm sure was built much better than MDC. That being said 4 Rivers probably drains much better.
I would be curious to see how much money MDC brings to the surrounding areas. It is not like Great Bend, MDC is only 45 minutes from KC. Also it is not Karl's job to support the surrounding areas, it is to do what is best for MDC. So he is not a good manager becuse he does not do the scouting for everyone and post it on the Internet for everyone to see. Which would cause even more people to come to an already overcrowded marsh only to skyblast and wound more ducks and reduce the opportunities for everyone. I guess MO managers are all bad becuse they are on a draw system and limit the numbers of hunters, because that is essentially what he is doing.
So after having corn the past however many years they don't have any this year and it is automatically assumed that he just decided that he wasn't going to plant corn this year because he didn't want too.
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Re: MDC sucks

Postby NutsForDucks » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:01 pm

Eh, too-may-toe toe-mot-toe (if you get my drift). Not trying to argue, just wish we had corn since the SE zone runs so late.
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Re: MDC sucks

Postby Simply2Big » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:58 pm

Here's another example of Karl's expertise...

http://www.kdwpt.state.ks.us/news/Hunti ... ve-Hunting

No managed dove fields this year while everyone else seems to be doing fine.
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Re: MDC sucks

Postby cyoung24 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:29 pm

Simply2Big wrote:Here's another example of Karl's expertise...

http://www.kdwpt.state.ks.us/news/Hunti ... ve-Hunting

No managed dove fields this year while everyone else seems to be doing fine.

Seriously. Now your knit picking. I didn't see Neosho or John Redmond along with others on there are you gonna rag on them too. The bottoms has a total of less than 10 acres might as well not even have a field.

NutsForDucks wrote:Eh, too-may-toe toe-mot-toe (if you get my drift). Not trying to argue, just wish we had corn since the SE zone runs so late.

I hear you. I don't want to argue either but I just hate to see how quick people are to pile on him when there is a little adversity. MDC had quality habitat with decent amount of birds the past 2 years because of their hard work. The way it's looking there may not be flooded corn any where around here. Last I heard even Four Rivers isn't going to have corn and Grand Pass isn't gonna have that much if any.
Karl is an ally in the bigger scheme of things of fighting crooked commissioners. I'd hate to loose him.
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Re: MDC sucks

Postby Goosegetter50 » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:13 pm

Simply2Big wrote:Here's another example of Karl's expertise...

http://www.kdwpt.state.ks.us/news/Hunti ... ve-Hunting

No managed dove fields this year while everyone else seems to be doing fine.


If you don't like the place then don't go there.
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