Just legalize it already......

A forum not related to waterfowl for discussing the more controversial and hot topic issues in our world from immigration, politics, the war, etc..

Moderators: Smackaduck, MM

Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:32 pm

dudejcb wrote:You really are a wasteful big government, police state advocate aren't you.
Are you advocating that most laws go unenforced because we have inadequate resource to enforce them?

I have a simple rule. If we are not willing to invest the resources to make a serious effort to effectively enforce a law, then why the Image is it a law?

Cut the laws massively, and then enforce vigorously what is left because the only thing that is left are things where your actions harm other people. Drug laws are a good place to start, but even that would still leave miles to go.

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse, it is the only possible option. That is how you create a police state and that is where we are today.
A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.
User avatar
SpinnerMan
hunter
 
Posts: 16188
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:24 am
Location: Joliet, IL


Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby dudejcb » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:22 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:
dudejcb wrote:You really are a wasteful big government, police state advocate aren't you.
Are you advocating that most laws go unenforced because we have inadequate resource to enforce them?

Spinner, you are the classic over-educated guy who doesn't get the obvious meaning of straightforward statements ... for some unkown reason. Where did anything I said come close to inferring that most laws should go unenforced?

Let me restate and include my actual inference: The money we could save on drug interdiction, prosecution and imprisonment could go to ... pay down the debt ... maybe. There will still be all the usual money wasted by police and the government to enforce all the remaining laws. And if, down the road, we think we need more enforcement funding, we can cross that bridge when we get to it.

SpinnerMan wrote:Cut the laws massively, and then enforce vigorously what is left because the only thing that is left are things where your actions harm other people.
My actions? What are the voices telling you now?

SpinnerMan wrote:Ignorance of the law is not an excuse, it is the only possible option. That is how you create a police state and that is where we are today.
That's some messed up thinking right there. If only your teachers had asked you what you were thinking when you got the wrong answers rather than just punish you for getting it wrong... (Channeling the other thread obviously. Why do I feel the need to explain that to you?)
What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding?
User avatar
dudejcb
hunter
 
Posts: 5250
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:29 am
Location: SW Idaho

Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:01 pm

dudejcb wrote:Let me restate and include my actual inference: The money we could save on drug interdiction, prosecution and imprisonment could go to ... pay down the debt
Well, your FIRST suggestion was to spend it. When I suggested we should spend it on something different, suddenly I am the big government guy. :huh:

dudejcb wrote:There will still be all the usual money wasted by police and the government to enforce all the remaining laws.
Our law enforcement in the places where there is the most drug enforcement and other expenditures are in general the places where people are suffering the most from inadequate law enforcement. While ending the black market for drugs would definitely help. These places would still almost certainly be plagued by crime at horribly unacceptable levels in many cases. The priority #1 through #999 of government should be to protect people's rights to their life, their liberty, and their property. We are failing miserably in far too many areas. IF, that every giant IF, we were to end the black market, we should take that momentum and run with it to crush other criminal activity. Once these communities are as safe as most leafy suburbs, then we can start to bank some cost savings, but not any sooner. People are suffering needlessly. That has to be a wildly more important than it is, but people like Obama live in their fancy houses where they get focused attention from the police and you literally go a few blocks away from Obama's house and it is practically a war zone. Do those people not count?

It's not academic to them. It is life and death. They are not just a statistic to me.
A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.
User avatar
SpinnerMan
hunter
 
Posts: 16188
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:24 am
Location: Joliet, IL

Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby dudejcb » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:22 am

SpinnerMan wrote:
dudejcb wrote:Let me restate and include my actual inference: The money we could save on drug interdiction, prosecution and imprisonment could go to ... pay down the debt
Well, your FIRST suggestion was to spend it. When I suggested we should spend it on something different, suddenly I am the big government guy. :huh:

dudejcb wrote:There will still be all the usual money wasted by police and the government to enforce all the remaining laws.
Our law enforcement in the places where there is the most drug enforcement and other expenditures are in general the places where people are suffering the most from inadequate law enforcement. While ending the black market for drugs would definitely help. These places would still almost certainly be plagued by crime at horribly unacceptable levels in many cases. The priority #1 through #999 of government should be to protect people's rights to their life, their liberty, and their property. We are failing miserably in far too many areas. IF, that every giant IF, we were to end the black market, we should take that momentum and run with it to crush other criminal activity. Once these communities are as safe as most leafy suburbs, then we can start to bank some cost savings, but not any sooner. People are suffering needlessly. That has to be a wildly more important than it is, but people like Obama live in their fancy houses where they get focused attention from the police and you literally go a few blocks away from Obama's house and it is practically a war zone. Do those people not count?

It's not academic to them. It is life and death. They are not just a statistic to me.
I was unaware that law enforcement had crushed any legal activity or had momentum.
What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding?
User avatar
dudejcb
hunter
 
Posts: 5250
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:29 am
Location: SW Idaho

Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby jehler » Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:14 am

Hanging outside of school zones and harassing the high school kids isn't momentum?
Buy it, use it, break it, fix it,
Trash it, change it, mail - upgrade it,
Charge it, point it, zoom it, press it,
Snap it, work it, quick - erase it,
Write it, cut it, paste it, save it,
Load it, check it, quick - rewrite it,
Plug it, play it, burn it
User avatar
jehler
thread hi-jacking expert and a great guy
 
Posts: 17516
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:52 pm
Location: Traverse City, MI

Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby SpinnerMan » Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:04 pm

dudejcb wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:IF, that every giant IF, we were to end the black market, we should take that momentum and run with it to crush other criminal activity.
I was unaware that law enforcement had crushed any legal activity or had momentum.

Maybe that would make it clear for you. IF we legalize drugs in a way that for all practical purposes eliminates the black market, particularly for hard drugs, we don't take the savings and waste them on education like we do with the lottery money, which just means the accountants move money in the books, but in practice it ends up being spent on waste and corruption. We take that money and use it to be more aggressive going after murderers, armed robbers, rapists, child molesters, muggers, etc. and to lock them up for even longer (personally I'd prefer most of them spend less time in jail, but it's not freedom at the end of that short stint in prison) so they can't victimize more people. We use it to save people's lives, we use it to save people from being violently victimized, we use it to protect people's property, we use it for the things the criminal justice system should be focused on.

BTW, government crushes legal activity all the time. It seems to be the focus of the Obama administration :yes:
A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.
User avatar
SpinnerMan
hunter
 
Posts: 16188
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:24 am
Location: Joliet, IL

Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby Indaswamp » Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:48 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:
dudejcb wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:IF, that every giant IF, we were to end the black market, we should take that momentum and run with it to crush other criminal activity.
I was unaware that law enforcement had crushed any legal activity or had momentum.

Maybe that would make it clear for you. IF we legalize drugs in a way that for all practical purposes eliminates the black market, particularly for hard drugs, we don't take the savings and waste them on education like we do with the lottery money, which just means the accountants move money in the books, but in practice it ends up being spent on waste and corruption. We take that money and use it to be more aggressive going after murderers, armed robbers, rapists, child molesters, muggers, etc. and to lock them up for even longer (personally I'd prefer most of them spend less time in jail, but it's not freedom at the end of that short stint in prison) so they can't victimize more people. We use it to save people's lives, we use it to save people from being violently victimized, we use it to protect people's property, we use it for the things the criminal justice system should be focused on.

BTW, government crushes legal activity all the time. It seems to be the focus of the Obama administration :yes:

OH! SNAP!!!
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Never fart in your waders, it'll give you WORTS.
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 57431
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:19 am

[quote="Indaswamp"] and to lock them up for even longer (personally I'd prefer most of them spend less time in jail, but it's not freedom at the end of that short stint in prison) so they can't victimize more people. We use it to save people's lives, we use it to save people from being violently victimized, we use it to protect people's property, we use it for the things the criminal justice system should be focused on [quote]

That pretty much drives me nuts too, Inda, Guy can be on "Death Row" for 25 years. If we agree that we are going to do it, give it time to go through an appeal, have the case reviewed by a rotating panel of involuntary jurists and let's get the job done. The cases of mistaken identity would, in my opinion, be so miniscule as to simply be an example of "nothing's perfect" and compensation for a family may be in order. As I've said before, if I knew I was facing the rest of my life in a prison environment I would be looking for shortcuts everyday anyway. Sorry if that's blasphemous to those of such conviction.
Glimmerjim
hunter
 
Posts: 10839
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:41 am

Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby TomKat » Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:01 am

I like the Libertarian view on this matter-



Libertarians support the rights recognized by the Fourth Amendment to be secure in our persons, homes, and property. Protection from unreasonable search and seizure should include records held by third parties, such as email, medical, and library records. Only actions that infringe on the rights of others can properly be termed crimes. We favor the repeal of all laws creating “crimes” without victims, such as the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes.
Image
User avatar
TomKat
Dorothy
 
Posts: 11497
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:18 am
Location: NE Kansas

Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby slowshooter » Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:04 pm

Legalize it. Allow the market to flourish legally. Treat addiction as a medical problem. Treat those that refuse treatment and eventually hurt others as criminals.

Rescind seizure laws so the govt has no incentive to create laws that manufacture criminals as a profit motive.
All this for a bowl of borscht.
User avatar
slowshooter
hunter
 
Posts: 9011
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:44 pm
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby TomKat » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:45 am

slowshooter wrote:
Rescind seizure laws so the govt has no incentive to create laws that manufacture criminals as a profit motive.


Its not hard to figure out who created the dangerous gangs of Mexico. Make it legal and they go broke.
Image
User avatar
TomKat
Dorothy
 
Posts: 11497
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:18 am
Location: NE Kansas

Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby Glimmerjim » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:34 am

TomKat wrote:
slowshooter wrote:
Rescind seizure laws so the govt has no incentive to create laws that manufacture criminals as a profit motive.


Its not hard to figure out who created the dangerous gangs of Mexico. Make it legal and they go broke.

Make it legal and a lot of friends, nephews and sons die, TK. it ain't pot, it ain't horse. it ain't cocaine, Tommy. It's like injecting battery acid in your veins.
Glimmerjim
hunter
 
Posts: 10839
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:41 am

Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:04 am

Glimmerjim wrote:
TomKat wrote:
slowshooter wrote:
Rescind seizure laws so the govt has no incentive to create laws that manufacture criminals as a profit motive.


Its not hard to figure out who created the dangerous gangs of Mexico. Make it legal and they go broke.

Make it legal and a lot of friends, nephews and sons die, TK. it ain't pot, it ain't horse. it ain't cocaine, Tommy. It's like injecting battery acid in your veins.

A lot of friends, nephews, and sons are dying already. The only question is can we do better. Since it would be hard to do worse, although the faux medical use is far worse because it corrupts medicine while not killing the black market, but as far as just the drug use it is not much worse. When you are near the bottom, there is little downside risk. We are near the bottom across the board whether we are talking pot or heroine or meth or ...

The answer is legal to use, but not legal to posses and only legal to produce and sell under strict scrutiny and then extremely harsh penalties for those violating these laws. Huge cut in profit for the black market combined with huge increase in risk. The one key goal is minimize the number off friends, nephews, and sons that ever try any hard drugs before at least their 18th birthday.
A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.
User avatar
SpinnerMan
hunter
 
Posts: 16188
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:24 am
Location: Joliet, IL

Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby jehler » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:14 am

Glimmerjim wrote:Make it legal and a lot of friends, nephews and sons die.

You do realize there is no cure for death, no treatment, it happens to us all right? Friends, nephews and sons all are going to die. If they want to do it with drugs it's not my or your business
Buy it, use it, break it, fix it,
Trash it, change it, mail - upgrade it,
Charge it, point it, zoom it, press it,
Snap it, work it, quick - erase it,
Write it, cut it, paste it, save it,
Load it, check it, quick - rewrite it,
Plug it, play it, burn it
User avatar
jehler
thread hi-jacking expert and a great guy
 
Posts: 17516
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:52 pm
Location: Traverse City, MI

Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby TomKat » Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:36 am

jehler wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:Make it legal and a lot of friends, nephews and sons die.

You do realize there is no cure for death, no treatment, it happens to us all right? Friends, nephews and sons all are going to die. If they want to do it with drugs it's not my or your business


EXACTLY.

GJ, my mother was a hardcore alcoholic. She died at 65.

The lesson?

You CANNOT save people from them self. We both know the war on drugs has been a total failure, the worst return on investment ever seen. The government should not be in the business of legislating morality, right? Don't you support abortion rights and gay rights? How is this any different ?

Why should I waste my tax dollars to continue such an epic failure, when we have so many other failed government polices we seem intent on funding?

Lets save the prison cells for child molesters and violent criminals. History has proven that prohibition never works.
Last edited by TomKat on Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
TomKat
Dorothy
 
Posts: 11497
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:18 am
Location: NE Kansas

Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby ohioboy » Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:15 am

TomKat wrote:
jehler wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:Make it legal and a lot of friends, nephews and sons die.

You do realize there is no cure for death, no treatment, it happens to us all right? Friends, nephews and sons all are going to die. If they want to do it with drugs it's not my or your business


EXACTLY.

GJ, my mother was a hardcore alcoholic. She died at 65.

The lesson?

You CANNOT save people from them self. We both know the way on drugs has been a total failure, the worst return on investment ever seen. The government should not be in the business of legislating morality, right? Don't you support abortion rights and gay rights? How is this any different ?

Why should I waste my tax dollars to continue such an epic failure, when we have so many other failed government polices we seem intent on funding?

Lets save the prison cells for child molesters and violent criminals. History has proven that prohibition never works.

i agree that they need to be legalized.

the big issue is when it affects other people (i see it in my students firsthand everyday) and/or causes them harm. that is the hard one to tackle. figure that one out, you are a rich man.
User avatar
ohioboy
hunter
 
Posts: 2356
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:28 pm
Location: MoCo, MD

Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:17 am

ohioboy wrote:the big issue is when it affects other people (i see it in my students firsthand everyday) and/or causes them harm.
But it is not a difficult issue.

A drunk kills a bunch of kids in a school cross walk.

What do we do?

A. Outlaw alcohol
B. Make drunk driving a crime, but then make excuses that he was a disadvantaged person and less culpable and little punishment
C. Make DUI laws that are so ridiculous that society doesn't take them seriously
D. Punish him harshly along with all other people caught legitimately drunk driving

Focus on the specific area where other people are put in unacceptable danger. I think speeding is a great example. Sure everybody agrees speeding should be a crime, but the speed limits in many places are ridiculously low as are the fines and people simply disregard and pretty much do as they please. I would raise nearly all speed limits and then make very harsh penalties. Some of the things I did as a dumbass teenager should have result in the car I was driving getting confiscated and like DUI involved sitting my dumbass in jail. I never realized how dangerous I was until I was probably within inches of being in an accident that likely would have made national news because 7 dumbass teenagers got killed. However, if I had got caught and my Dad's truck were confiscated, no freaking way I'm driving like that. My Dad had not spanked me in close to a decade, but I know he would have kicked my ass so hard it would have been permanently at my shoulders. Granted if you have no father at home, what does a dumbass teenage boy fear. His single mother :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:

Whatever it is, focus on the specific problem and don't try to eliminate the myriad of paths that lead to that point where someone does something that endangers other people because the vast majority of people that do those things do not end up at that point.

Child abuse, child neglect, we've made a joke out of them. Trust me, I have witnessed this first hand and I just never wanted to believe it. Sure I understand fully why my niece's mother is such a horrible human being. Her mother allowed her to be sexually abused and she became permanently and irreparably broken mentally. But she is an adult now and her mother is dead rotting in hell as she deserves and where her daughter needs to join her before she ruins the lives of her three children, if she hasn't already. Take the children from people like her and don't harass people doing their best and making honest mistakes and for damn sure never fight to get her children back for her as the state did, successfully a couple times in spite of just horrible situations and a father that wanted his daughter, could afford to care for his daughter, and no one in court had a bad word to say about as a father.
A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.
User avatar
SpinnerMan
hunter
 
Posts: 16188
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:24 am
Location: Joliet, IL

Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:16 am

SpinnerMan wrote: Child abuse, child neglect, we've made a joke out of them. Trust me, I have witnessed this first hand and I just never wanted to believe it. Sure I understand fully why my niece's mother is such a horrible human being. Her mother allowed her to be sexually abused and she became permanently and irreparably broken mentally. But she is an adult now and her mother is dead rotting in hell as she deserves and where her daughter needs to join her before she ruins the lives of her three children, if she hasn't already. Take the children from people like her and don't harass people doing their best and making honest mistakes and for damn sure never fight to get her children back for her as the state did, successfully a couple times in spite of just horrible situations and a father that wanted his daughter, could afford to care for his daughter, and no one in court had a bad word to say about as a father.

And that, Spin, is where we take the first step on that slippery slope. Who defines exactly what is seriously neglectful, abusive, injurious, or will in a probability lead to a lot of shortcomings as the child matures that will have to be dealt with without the resources, without the self-knowledge of shortcomings, and without ever had any responsible role models?
The depth of the subject frankly bewilders me. Often times, myself included, actions are taken by a parent/guardian that are intended to be in the child's best interests. In the long run, however, giving too much can be just as injurious as giving little. Many here have postulated the practicality of making all drugs legal to "responsible" adults. What all unexpected ramifications come from a society with that mind-set? There is an age of rebellion that is natural to all, or most, kids that has been maifested in several generations as usage of Mind-altering substances of one form or another? What comes when drugs are as common as pick-pockets at Times Square and as accepted as beer at an Octoberfest? That is just an attempt at humor, but I hope you see my drift. Who will make the rules for removing children from homes, and will it be as considered as "Socialistic Impositions on Liberty" or "Liberal tomfoolery on personal rights and privacies"? Both, I can well imagine. And there we go again! I can picture the line scribed in the sand already, with the tide washing the line away on a regular basis.
Glimmerjim
hunter
 
Posts: 10839
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:41 am

Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby assateague » Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:35 am

I thought that's what liberals were all about- situational, ever-changing "morality". "There are no absolutes", "the world isn't black and white", I've been told. Well, then, practice what you preach.
WOLVERINES

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Let a man vote to give himself a fish and he eats until society collapses.
User avatar
assateague
Emu hunter extraordinaire
 
Posts: 21277
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:25 pm
Location: Eastern Shore, People's Republic of Maryland

Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby Glimmerjim » Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:12 am

assateague wrote:I thought that's what liberals were all about- situational, ever-changing "morality". "There are no absolutes", "the world isn't black and white", I've been told. Well, then, practice what you preach.

That's the biggest problem....you think you know what liberals are all about. You're partially correct...."There are no absolutes", "the world isn't black and white". Where, from that personal interpretation, you conclude that nothing bears any foresight or consideration and when faced with a multitude of possibilities the choice doesn't matter, as long as it is change for change's sake, it doesn't surprise me that you think liberals are fools. It takes a fool to interpret them in that manner. Change can be positive. It can be negative. It is up to us as reasoning animals to make the best decision at the time based on the information we have. If all data points to us having made incorrect decisions in the past, then yes, it probably is in need of change. If you stick to non-working policies, when the majority of data suggests we are in desperate need of change, yet refuse to change it for fear of the "liberal" boogeyman, then I think you need to rethink your habit of "practicing what you preach." Perhaps, and I mean nothing personally, what you are needing is not practicing what you preach, but opening your opinion set to include something worth preaching.
Glimmerjim
hunter
 
Posts: 10839
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:41 am

Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby SpinnerMan » Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:37 am

Glimmerjim wrote:You're partially correct...."There are no absolutes", "the world isn't black and white".
So are you saying that liberals think that there are in fact no blacks and whites, no rights and wrongs, everything is just subjective?

BTW, if this is even just representative, how do liberals support a centralized government where by definition there is one set of rules for everyone, regardless of how complex and convoluted those rules are, there is but one black and white set by one central government.

This is probably a key difference. Conservatives believe there are some black and whites, but there is a large swath that is subjective. If you think San Fran has got the rules wrong, don't live there. If you think Utah has got it nailed down, you got a place to go. Is that not how no absolutes would look like and not a winner set all rules scheme of a central government?

Glimmerjim wrote:Change can be positive. It can be negative.
So don't gamble on the one-size-fits-all legislation that nobody read before it became the law of the land. After all, it could be negative. If Romneycare is the bomb, the people of every state will clamor for it. If Obamacare is a negative change, well we all suffer, do we not?

This is why I think liberals today are largely fools. You don't have to be a fool to be a liberal, it's just that today most liberals are fools and that makes liberal policies foolish and ineffective. What they say and what they do hold no logical connection. True intellectual thinking liberals, which unfortunately seems like an oxymoron today and true intellectual thinking conservatives, which I fully agree seems like it may have been an oxymoron a half century ago, will come to the same basic conclusions, but have significant difference of opinion on the relative importance of things that they both agree are important, but we have to prioritize them because of the inherently limited resources. For example, law enforcement, incarceration, and rehabilitation. All are important, but what is the best application of resources available to protect the non-criminals? People's opinion range the entire spectrum and I'll argue that there is no one answer and the optimum is going to vary dramatically from community to community and from crime to crime. Murder: no rehab, just death. Petty crimes: try rehab first (mandatory work programs or other punish/rehab combined).
A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.
User avatar
SpinnerMan
hunter
 
Posts: 16188
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:24 am
Location: Joliet, IL

Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby assateague » Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:39 pm

Glimmerjim wrote:
assateague wrote:I thought that's what liberals were all about- situational, ever-changing "morality". "There are no absolutes", "the world isn't black and white", I've been told. Well, then, practice what you preach.

That's the biggest problem....you think you know what liberals are all about. You're partially correct...."There are no absolutes", "the world isn't black and white". Where, from that personal interpretation, you conclude that nothing bears any foresight or consideration and when faced with a multitude of possibilities the choice doesn't matter, as long as it is change for change's sake, it doesn't surprise me that you think liberals are fools. It takes a fool to interpret them in that manner. Change can be positive. It can be negative. It is up to us as reasoning animals to make the best decision at the time based on the information we have. If all data points to us having made incorrect decisions in the past, then yes, it probably is in need of change. If you stick to non-working policies, when the majority of data suggests we are in desperate need of change, yet refuse to change it for fear of the "liberal" boogeyman, then I think you need to rethink your habit of "practicing what you preach." Perhaps, and I mean nothing personally, what you are needing is not practicing what you preach, but opening your opinion set to include something worth preaching.




One word for you:

Obamacare.
WOLVERINES

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Let a man vote to give himself a fish and he eats until society collapses.
User avatar
assateague
Emu hunter extraordinaire
 
Posts: 21277
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:25 pm
Location: Eastern Shore, People's Republic of Maryland

Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby ohioboy » Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:06 pm

assateague wrote:
Glimmerjim wrote:
assateague wrote:I thought that's what liberals were all about- situational, ever-changing "morality". "There are no absolutes", "the world isn't black and white", I've been told. Well, then, practice what you preach.

That's the biggest problem....you think you know what liberals are all about. You're partially correct...."There are no absolutes", "the world isn't black and white". Where, from that personal interpretation, you conclude that nothing bears any foresight or consideration and when faced with a multitude of possibilities the choice doesn't matter, as long as it is change for change's sake, it doesn't surprise me that you think liberals are fools. It takes a fool to interpret them in that manner. Change can be positive. It can be negative. It is up to us as reasoning animals to make the best decision at the time based on the information we have. If all data points to us having made incorrect decisions in the past, then yes, it probably is in need of change. If you stick to non-working policies, when the majority of data suggests we are in desperate need of change, yet refuse to change it for fear of the "liberal" boogeyman, then I think you need to rethink your habit of "practicing what you preach." Perhaps, and I mean nothing personally, what you are needing is not practicing what you preach, but opening your opinion set to include something worth preaching.




One word for you:

Obamacare.


More like one word for us.
User avatar
ohioboy
hunter
 
Posts: 2356
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:28 pm
Location: MoCo, MD

Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:27 am

corncob wrote:im way too high to read this :biggrin: took me a hour on each of spinners posts
legal or not i will smoke it

If it only took you an hour, you must not be high enough. :oops:
A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.
User avatar
SpinnerMan
hunter
 
Posts: 16188
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:24 am
Location: Joliet, IL

Re: Just legalize it already......

Postby Andy W » Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:10 am

Glimmerjim wrote:You're partially correct...."There are no absolutes"

Isn't that statement an absolute?
Andy W
hunter
 
Posts: 614
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:30 am
Location: KY

PreviousNext

Return to Controversial Issues Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests