Ohio- This The "Discussion"?

A forum not related to waterfowl for discussing the more controversial and hot topic issues in our world from immigration, politics, the war, etc..

Moderators: Smackaduck, MM

Re: Ohio- This The "Discussion"?

Postby assateague » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:43 pm

You need to go watch the video again. What you are describing is not even close to what that woman (the curriculum director) was saying.
WOLVERINES

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Let a man vote to give himself a fish and he eats until society collapses.
User avatar
assateague
Emu hunter extraordinaire
 
Posts: 21277
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:25 pm
Location: Eastern Shore, People's Republic of Maryland


Re: Ohio- This The "Discussion"?

Postby go get the bird » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:54 pm

The segment was not about addressing a childs improper way of thinking, it was about allowing them to justify their wrong way of thinking. She's talking about moving the concepts of education more towards a childs ability to articulate his/her thought process, which is irrelevant when applied to the actual answer of a simple math problem.

If the child were writing a thesis on the theoretical probability that there are always an infinite number of solutions to every question, and that "11" was, in fact, a viable answer to the question "what does 3x4 equal?", I'd be more inclined to listen to why he/she thinks it might be the answer. Because we are talking about basic math and those who are failing to grasp it, I'd be willing to be that these students don't even know what a thesis is.
MackieKnife wrote:The moral of the story is...I'm retarded.
User avatar
go get the bird
hunter
 
Posts: 3459
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:12 pm

Re: Ohio- This The "Discussion"?

Postby sharris » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:37 pm

No where did she say incorrect answers from flawed thinking was fine if it could be articulated by the child. That was specifically addressed when she said they would be correcting wrong answers/thought process at 21-23 seconds into the video. She said the goal was to get them to compute correctly at 25-27 seconds. She said the goal was to not just know the answer was 12 but to know why it was 12 at 38-40 second.
HR Annie Git Your Gun
Bird Retrieves for 2014-15 Season
Duck: 24
Geese: 1
Dove: 4
Pheasant: 42
User avatar
sharris
hunter
 
Posts: 1039
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:23 am
Location: corn and cattle country

Re: Ohio- This The "Discussion"?

Postby boney fingers » Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:42 pm

The education system is the largest example of a monopoly we have in this country; until we address the real issue, nothing will change. We can argue all day and night about the proper way to teach children, but until true competition is allowed to exist; the monopoly will continue to serve the needs of its members and not of its customers.
boney fingers
hunter
 
Posts: 882
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:30 pm

Re: Ohio- This The "Discussion"?

Postby dudejcb » Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:02 pm

I remember getting a lot of partial credit in college when I got the wrong answer but I had the right methodology ... up to to a point.

I don't think these people are motivated to screw kids up. They've been criticized for a lot, and when they try other approaches, they get more criticism. Too, her example may just have been a poor one that's too easy to ridicule for ruthless second-guessers like ... everyone.
What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding?
User avatar
dudejcb
hunter
 
Posts: 5267
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:29 am
Location: SW Idaho

Re: Ohio- This The "Discussion"?

Postby assateague » Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:03 pm

SHarris, No. You're wrong. There is no way to "interpret" what she said, other than that the right answer is secondary to the "process". Here. I even bothered to transcribe it for you.

Woman 1: "but even under the new common core, even if they said 3x4 was 11, if they were able to explain their reasoning, and explain how THEY came up with their answer, really, in, uh, words and oral explanations, and they showed it in a picture, and they just got the final number wrong? We're really more focusing on the how and the..."

Woman 2: "But you'd be correcting them, right?"

Woman 1: "Oh, absolutely, absolutely, we want our students to compute correctly. But the emphasis is really moving more towards the the explanation and the how and the why, and 'can I really talk through the procedures that I went through to get this answer', and not just knowing that it's 12, how do I know that..."



Ludicrous.
WOLVERINES

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Let a man vote to give himself a fish and he eats until society collapses.
User avatar
assateague
Emu hunter extraordinaire
 
Posts: 21277
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:25 pm
Location: Eastern Shore, People's Republic of Maryland

Re: Ohio- This The "Discussion"?

Postby assateague » Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:06 pm

dudejcb wrote:I remember getting a lot of partial credit in college when I got the wrong answer but I had the right methodology ... up to to a point.

I don't think these people are motivated to screw kids up. They've been criticized for a lot, and when they try other approaches, they get more criticism. Too, her example may just have been a poor one that's too easy to ridicule for ruthless second-guessers like ... everyone.



I'm not second guessing her. I'm second guessing the crap that my kids come home from school with. It's not just some random woman, saying random things. I see proof of the effects of what she's saying every day of the school year, and have, for at least the last three years. It's frankly an insult to see the education these kids are getting, and as long as I'm forced to foot the bill for it, at the point of a gun, you're damn right I'm going to question it.
WOLVERINES

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Let a man vote to give himself a fish and he eats until society collapses.
User avatar
assateague
Emu hunter extraordinaire
 
Posts: 21277
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:25 pm
Location: Eastern Shore, People's Republic of Maryland

Re: Ohio- This The "Discussion"?

Postby dudejcb » Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:07 pm

go get the bird wrote:... She's talking about moving the concepts of education more towards a childs ability to articulate his/her thought process, which is irrelevant when applied to the actual answer of a simple math problem...
I think it's healthy for kids to begin to think about the reasons behind why they think something. When you get to the root behind incorrect logic, and can help them reason it out correctly, that's a good thing.
What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding?
User avatar
dudejcb
hunter
 
Posts: 5267
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:29 am
Location: SW Idaho

Re: Ohio- This The "Discussion"?

Postby assateague » Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:09 pm

If they want to do that, fine. But the EMPHASIS shouls ALWAYS be on doing something correctly. Moving the "emphasis" from a correct answer, and onto the process, is, frankly, stupid.
WOLVERINES

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Let a man vote to give himself a fish and he eats until society collapses.
User avatar
assateague
Emu hunter extraordinaire
 
Posts: 21277
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:25 pm
Location: Eastern Shore, People's Republic of Maryland

Re: Ohio- This The "Discussion"?

Postby dudejcb » Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:16 pm

assateague wrote:If they want to do that, fine. But the EMPHASIS shouls ALWAYS be on doing something correctly. Moving the "emphasis" from a correct answer, and onto the process, is, frankly, stupid.
I agree, but when someone gets the wrong answer they're obviously not understanding something, so getting at what their flawed understanding is seems like the right thing to do.

If your kids already understand and "get it" then this should be no skin off their (or your) nose. Isn't it targeting the kids who don't get it.
What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding?
User avatar
dudejcb
hunter
 
Posts: 5267
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:29 am
Location: SW Idaho

Re: Ohio- This The "Discussion"?

Postby assateague » Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:18 pm

That's just it, though. It isn't targeting to fix, it is targeting to accept. And that's bad. That woman just SAID that the correct answer isn't the emphasis. Her words, not mine.

When a kid brings home an achievement award for getting a C in 8th grade math, there's a problem. I'd take a picture, but it's long since been thrown in the garbage.
WOLVERINES

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Let a man vote to give himself a fish and he eats until society collapses.
User avatar
assateague
Emu hunter extraordinaire
 
Posts: 21277
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:25 pm
Location: Eastern Shore, People's Republic of Maryland

Re: Ohio- This The "Discussion"?

Postby go get the bird » Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:19 pm

dudejcb wrote:
assateague wrote:If they want to do that, fine. But the EMPHASIS shouls ALWAYS be on doing something correctly. Moving the "emphasis" from a correct answer, and onto the process, is, frankly, stupid.
I agree, but when someone gets the wrong answer they're obviously not understanding something, so getting at what their flawed understanding is seems like the right thing to do.

If your kids already understand and "get it" then this should be no skin off their (or your) nose. Isn't it targeting the kids who don't get it.

Right, but you don't test the process, you test the end result, which is the combination of logic and the application of the process.

Teach a child how to do it right, and reward them for doing so when they've come up with the right answer. You should not reward a student for justifying a wrong answer. Period.
MackieKnife wrote:The moral of the story is...I'm retarded.
User avatar
go get the bird
hunter
 
Posts: 3459
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:12 pm

Re: Ohio- This The "Discussion"?

Postby ohioboy » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:24 pm

assateague wrote:The reason I ask, is that you seem to constantly portray yourself as a passive, independent entity, just "along for the ride". You have repeatedly asked parents to "get involved", for people to "voice their opinions", and so forth.

So, what have YOU done from the inside? If it's good for folks to "get involved" who are on the outside (i.e. they have a student in school), why is it not exponentially better for the ones who implement the policy to "get involved"?

Hardly passive, but you refuse to come see me in action. Passive would be my nemesis if i was a superhero.

Not along for the ride, but hardly have the reins. I do what I can with the allotted time I have. Seems like you have a bit more than me.

I did help get a board member elected. Got students involved too. They loved it. Real world chit. But hey, I don't do anything.

I have given input to the chief technology officer of the county when it was asked of me. Oh, you did say I was a bad teacher. Not sure why it was solicited. Or why they came out to see me in action. Assa says i am a bad teacher. :fingerhead:

And actually starting my masters in educational leadership. I just don't do anything. :fingerpt: I want to change things. I don't have all the answers. Do tell if you do.

Go get the bird, it is hard. I am in a system that has 150000 students. Change made easy would be a disaster. Better suggestions than committees?

Oh, Assa. If you google great teachers you can find plenty. I don't feel the need to point out the obvious. You and your sour grapes are just par for the course. I dont take it personal. It's ok, there is a root problem. Usually is. I can crack most kids. Bet I could you too. Mom/dad issues, molestation, abuse, neglect are the most common. Not saying that is your case, just suspect. You analyze for a living, right? Look at what you gripe about. Central authority. Follow them Reece's pieces and you might get there.
User avatar
ohioboy
hunter
 
Posts: 2354
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:28 pm
Location: MoCo, MD

Re: Ohio- This The

Postby ohioboy » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:42 pm

go get the bird wrote:
dudejcb wrote:
assateague wrote:If they want to do that, fine. But the EMPHASIS shouls ALWAYS be on doing something correctly. Moving the "emphasis" from a correct answer, and onto the process, is, frankly, stupid.
I agree, but when someone gets the wrong answer they're obviously not understanding something, so getting at what their flawed understanding is seems like the right thing to do.

If your kids already understand and "get it" then this should be no skin off their (or your) nose. Isn't it targeting the kids who don't get it.

Right, but you don't test the process, you test the end result, which is the combination of logic and the application of the process.

Teach a child how to do it right, and reward them for doing so when they've come up with the right answer. You should not reward a student for justifying a wrong answer. Period.

There is not always one answer.
User avatar
ohioboy
hunter
 
Posts: 2354
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:28 pm
Location: MoCo, MD

Re: Ohio- This The

Postby ohioboy » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:54 pm

go get the bird wrote:
assateague wrote:The reason I ask, is that you seem to constantly portray yourself as a passive, independent entity, just "along for the ride". You have repeatedly asked parents to "get involved", for people to "voice their opinions", and so forth.

So, what have YOU done from the inside? If it's good for folks to "get involved" who are on the outside (i.e. they have a student in school), why is it not exponentially better for the ones who implement the policy to "get involved"?


He's going to tell you it's too hard to get anything changed, no one takes advice from the teachers, or that he's on some bullshit committee designed to create some minuscule amount of change, but has yet to do so.

Mark my words. :lol:


My school was also part of a department of education study to look into smaller learning communities. We fought for the grant, got it, tested it, and found the results to be very inconclusive. That is why you have never heard of them. And schools did not spend money on them. :thumbsup:

Oh, Assa, I was a team leader for four years for that too. Must be my lacking teaching skills AND my dreadfully passive leadership skills. :yes:
User avatar
ohioboy
hunter
 
Posts: 2354
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:28 pm
Location: MoCo, MD

Re: Ohio- This The "Discussion"?

Postby ohioboy » Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:06 pm

sharris wrote:No where did she say incorrect answers from flawed thinking was fine if it could be articulated by the child. That was specifically addressed when she said they would be correcting wrong answers/thought process at 21-23 seconds into the video. She said the goal was to get them to compute correctly at 25-27 seconds. She said the goal was to not just know the answer was 12 but to know why it was 12 at 38-40 second.

Yes.

I would rather my kids be able to say why something is right, rather than just it is right. If they show you their process you can correct the mistake. How else do you correct a mistake? Mind reader? Assa, since you don't have a degree in education like I do, how would you correct mistakes? You like mindless students without thinking skills?
User avatar
ohioboy
hunter
 
Posts: 2354
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:28 pm
Location: MoCo, MD

Re: Ohio- This The "Discussion"?

Postby go get the bird » Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:27 pm

ohioboy wrote:
sharris wrote:No where did she say incorrect answers from flawed thinking was fine if it could be articulated by the child. That was specifically addressed when she said they would be correcting wrong answers/thought process at 21-23 seconds into the video. She said the goal was to get them to compute correctly at 25-27 seconds. She said the goal was to not just know the answer was 12 but to know why it was 12 at 38-40 second.

Yes.

I would rather my kids be able to say why something is right, rather than just it is right. If they show you their process you can correct the mistake. How else do you correct a mistake? Mind reader? Assa, since you don't have a degree in education like I do, how would you correct mistakes? You like mindless students without thinking skills?

That's exactly the point, and you've failed to comprehend it.

I'm not sure what you teach, nor does it matter, but I'll ask in the most elementary way possible:

If you we're an algebra teacher, and you asked this question on the test:

Simplify the following equation: 3X+2X^2+x^3=54

If the student simplified all the way down to the last step, correctly mind you, and some how managed to end up with X=4, what would you do? Do you give him credit for using the logic, or do you count it wrong, because after all, this IS math and he IS wrong?
MackieKnife wrote:The moral of the story is...I'm retarded.
User avatar
go get the bird
hunter
 
Posts: 3459
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:12 pm

Re: Ohio- This The

Postby ohioboy » Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:44 pm

go get the bird wrote:
ohioboy wrote:
sharris wrote:No where did she say incorrect answers from flawed thinking was fine if it could be articulated by the child. That was specifically addressed when she said they would be correcting wrong answers/thought process at 21-23 seconds into the video. She said the goal was to get them to compute correctly at 25-27 seconds. She said the goal was to not just know the answer was 12 but to know why it was 12 at 38-40 second.

Yes.

I would rather my kids be able to say why something is right, rather than just it is right. If they show you their process you can correct the mistake. How else do you correct a mistake? Mind reader? Assa, since you don't have a degree in education like I do, how would you correct mistakes? You like mindless students without thinking skills?

That's exactly the point, and you've failed to comprehend it.

I'm not sure what you teach, nor does it matter, but I'll ask in the most elementary way possible:

If you we're an algebra teacher, and you asked this question on the test:

Simplify the following equation: 3X+2X^2+x^3=54

If the student simplified all the way down to the last step, correctly mind you, and some how managed to end up with X=4, what would you do? Do you give him credit for using the logic, or do you count it wrong, because after all, this IS math and he IS wrong?


Thanks for breaking it down. :no:

Partial credit, but mind you I am not a math teacher. I teach social studies so there is lots of room for personal touch in essays. Not so much in multiple choice.

And maybe I missed it, but where does she say this is applied to testing situations?
User avatar
ohioboy
hunter
 
Posts: 2354
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:28 pm
Location: MoCo, MD

Re: Ohio- This The

Postby dudejcb » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:04 pm

go get the bird wrote:
dudejcb wrote:
assateague wrote:If they want to do that, fine. But the EMPHASIS shouls ALWAYS be on doing something correctly. Moving the "emphasis" from a correct answer, and onto the process, is, frankly, stupid.
I agree, but when someone gets the wrong answer they're obviously not understanding something, so getting at what their flawed understanding is seems like the right thing to do.

If your kids already understand and "get it" then this should be no skin off their (or your) nose. Isn't it targeting the kids who don't get it.

Right, but you don't test the process, you test the end result, which is the combination of logic and the application of the process.

Teach a child how to do it right, and reward them for doing so when they've come up with the right answer. You should not reward a student for justifying a wrong answer. Period.
Who said they were rewarding anyone for being wrong? What I got was that they were simply trying to understand the kid's faulty logic--without humiliation, which often interrupts communication with inner thoughts--and then trying help them understand it correctly. No reward for being wrong, just finding out where their logic is at and trying to herd them in the right direction.
What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding?
User avatar
dudejcb
hunter
 
Posts: 5267
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:29 am
Location: SW Idaho

Re: Ohio- This The

Postby dudejcb » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:09 pm

ctdeathfrombelow wrote:I can't tell you how many times I got poor grades in math for finding the correct answer to an equation but with the "wrong" procedure.

cheater :lol3:
What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding?
User avatar
dudejcb
hunter
 
Posts: 5267
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:29 am
Location: SW Idaho

Re: Ohio- This The "Discussion"?

Postby go get the bird » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:13 pm

ohioboy wrote:
go get the bird wrote:
ohioboy wrote:
sharris wrote:No where did she say incorrect answers from flawed thinking was fine if it could be articulated by the child. That was specifically addressed when she said they would be correcting wrong answers/thought process at 21-23 seconds into the video. She said the goal was to get them to compute correctly at 25-27 seconds. She said the goal was to not just know the answer was 12 but to know why it was 12 at 38-40 second.

Yes.

I would rather my kids be able to say why something is right, rather than just it is right. If they show you their process you can correct the mistake. How else do you correct a mistake? Mind reader? Assa, since you don't have a degree in education like I do, how would you correct mistakes? You like mindless students without thinking skills?

That's exactly the point, and you've failed to comprehend it.

I'm not sure what you teach, nor does it matter, but I'll ask in the most elementary way possible:

If you we're an algebra teacher, and you asked this question on the test:

Simplify the following equation: 3X+2X^2+x^3=54

If the student simplified all the way down to the last step, correctly mind you, and some how managed to end up with X=4, what would you do? Do you give him credit for using the logic, or do you count it wrong, because after all, this IS math and he IS wrong?


Thanks for breaking it down. :no:

Partial credit, but mind you I am not a math teacher. I teach social studies so there is lots of room for personal touch in essays. Not so much in multiple choice.

And maybe I missed it, but where does she say this is applied to testing situations?

Exactly what I thought you would say. You'd give credit for wrong answers, which allows the student to finish the test, or homework, or whatever, while never actually getting the problem correct. This is the point.

And by the way, I hope you can can simplify that. It's high school freshman math.
MackieKnife wrote:The moral of the story is...I'm retarded.
User avatar
go get the bird
hunter
 
Posts: 3459
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:12 pm

Re: Ohio- This The

Postby ohioboy » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:17 pm

go get the bird wrote:
ohioboy wrote:
go get the bird wrote:
ohioboy wrote:
sharris wrote:No where did she say incorrect answers from flawed thinking was fine if it could be articulated by the child. That was specifically addressed when she said they would be correcting wrong answers/thought process at 21-23 seconds into the video. She said the goal was to get them to compute correctly at 25-27 seconds. She said the goal was to not just know the answer was 12 but to know why it was 12 at 38-40 second.

Yes.

I would rather my kids be able to say why something is right, rather than just it is right. If they show you their process you can correct the mistake. How else do you correct a mistake? Mind reader? Assa, since you don't have a degree in education like I do, how would you correct mistakes? You like mindless students without thinking skills?

That's exactly the point, and you've failed to comprehend it.

I'm not sure what you teach, nor does it matter, but I'll ask in the most elementary way possible:

If you we're an algebra teacher, and you asked this question on the test:

Simplify the following equation: 3X+2X^2+x^3=54

If the student simplified all the way down to the last step, correctly mind you, and some how managed to end up with X=4, what would you do? Do you give him credit for using the logic, or do you count it wrong, because after all, this IS math and he IS wrong?


Thanks for breaking it down. :no:

Partial credit, but mind you I am not a math teacher. I teach social studies so there is lots of room for personal touch in essays. Not so much in multiple choice.

And maybe I missed it, but where does she say this is applied to testing situations?

Exactly what I thought you would say. You'd give credit for wrong answers, which allows the student to finish the test, or homework, or whatever, while never actually getting the problem correct. This is the point.

And by the way, I hope you can can simplify that. It's high school freshman math.


So how do you show a student where they went wrong? You credit to the fault. Just like hooking up with a chick. Or did you get a fully correct problem the first time?
User avatar
ohioboy
hunter
 
Posts: 2354
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:28 pm
Location: MoCo, MD

Re: Ohio- This The "Discussion"?

Postby go get the bird » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:17 pm

dudejcb wrote:
go get the bird wrote:
dudejcb wrote:
assateague wrote:If they want to do that, fine. But the EMPHASIS shouls ALWAYS be on doing something correctly. Moving the "emphasis" from a correct answer, and onto the process, is, frankly, stupid.
I agree, but when someone gets the wrong answer they're obviously not understanding something, so getting at what their flawed understanding is seems like the right thing to do.

If your kids already understand and "get it" then this should be no skin off their (or your) nose. Isn't it targeting the kids who don't get it.

Right, but you don't test the process, you test the end result, which is the combination of logic and the application of the process.

Teach a child how to do it right, and reward them for doing so when they've come up with the right answer. You should not reward a student for justifying a wrong answer. Period.
Who said they were rewarding anyone for being wrong? What I got was that they were simply trying to understand the kid's faulty logic--without humiliation, which often interrupts communication with inner thoughts--and then trying help them understand it correctly. No reward for being wrong, just finding out where their logic is at and trying to herd them in the right direction.

By allowing the student to justify his answer, and giving credit for said justification rather than the ACTUAL answer, you effectively taught the student that he doesn't have to be right, just that he has to be able to defend his answer.

I will agree that the path you takes, cognitively, in order to arrive at a specific answer is important, but its not the most important thing. Personally, I believe it's having the right answer, and being able to explain the RIGHT answer.
MackieKnife wrote:The moral of the story is...I'm retarded.
User avatar
go get the bird
hunter
 
Posts: 3459
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:12 pm

Re: Ohio- This The "Discussion"?

Postby go get the bird » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:23 pm

ohioboy wrote:
go get the bird wrote:
ohioboy wrote:
go get the bird wrote:
ohioboy wrote:
sharris wrote:No where did she say incorrect answers from flawed thinking was fine if it could be articulated by the child. That was specifically addressed when she said they would be correcting wrong answers/thought process at 21-23 seconds into the video. She said the goal was to get them to compute correctly at 25-27 seconds. She said the goal was to not just know the answer was 12 but to know why it was 12 at 38-40 second.

Yes.

I would rather my kids be able to say why something is right, rather than just it is right. If they show you their process you can correct the mistake. How else do you correct a mistake? Mind reader? Assa, since you don't have a degree in education like I do, how would you correct mistakes? You like mindless students without thinking skills?

That's exactly the point, and you've failed to comprehend it.

I'm not sure what you teach, nor does it matter, but I'll ask in the most elementary way possible:

If you we're an algebra teacher, and you asked this question on the test:

Simplify the following equation: 3X+2X^2+x^3=54

If the student simplified all the way down to the last step, correctly mind you, and some how managed to end up with X=4, what would you do? Do you give him credit for using the logic, or do you count it wrong, because after all, this IS math and he IS wrong?


Thanks for breaking it down. :no:

Partial credit, but mind you I am not a math teacher. I teach social studies so there is lots of room for personal touch in essays. Not so much in multiple choice.

And maybe I missed it, but where does she say this is applied to testing situations?

Exactly what I thought you would say. You'd give credit for wrong answers, which allows the student to finish the test, or homework, or whatever, while never actually getting the problem correct. This is the point.

And by the way, I hope you can can simplify that. It's high school freshman math.


So how do you show a student where they went wrong? You credit to the fault. Just like hooking up with a chick. Or did you get a fully correct problem the first time?

Why would you credit a student for being wrong? That's insane. You punish for wrong answers, and reward for correct ones.

How would I teach it? Probably just like other teachers. I wouldn't, however, give credit for wrong answer. If you've failed it, you've failed it. I will show you how to do it, and break it down, step by step, but unless you can demonstrate to me completely, you've yet to master it, and don't deserve to move on.
MackieKnife wrote:The moral of the story is...I'm retarded.
User avatar
go get the bird
hunter
 
Posts: 3459
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:12 pm

Re: Ohio- This The

Postby ohioboy » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:24 pm

go get the bird wrote:
dudejcb wrote:
go get the bird wrote:
dudejcb wrote:
assateague wrote:If they want to do that, fine. But the EMPHASIS shouls ALWAYS be on doing something correctly. Moving the "emphasis" from a correct answer, and onto the process, is, frankly, stupid.
I agree, but when someone gets the wrong answer they're obviously not understanding something, so getting at what their flawed understanding is seems like the right thing to do.

If your kids already understand and "get it" then this should be no skin off their (or your) nose. Isn't it targeting the kids who don't get it.

Right, but you don't test the process, you test the end result, which is the combination of logic and the application of the process.

Teach a child how to do it right, and reward them for doing so when they've come up with the right answer. You should not reward a student for justifying a wrong answer. Period.
Who said they were rewarding anyone for being wrong? What I got was that they were simply trying to understand the kid's faulty logic--without humiliation, which often interrupts communication with inner thoughts--and then trying help them understand it correctly. No reward for being wrong, just finding out where their logic is at and trying to herd them in the right direction.

By allowing the student to justify his answer, and giving credit for said justification rather than the ACTUAL answer, you effectively taught the student that he doesn't have to be right, just that he has to be able to defend his answer.

I will agree that the path you takes, cognitively, in order to arrive at a specific answer is important, but its not the most important thing. Personally, I believe it's having the right answer, and being able to explain the RIGHT answer.

Read the transcript above Assa posted. Where is credit given for a wrong answer? This whole dialogue is about before the testing.
User avatar
ohioboy
hunter
 
Posts: 2354
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:28 pm
Location: MoCo, MD

PreviousNext

Return to Controversial Issues Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests