Why Work....

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Why Work....

Postby Indaswamp » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:44 am

...for $7.25 When Welfare Pays $15.00 in 12 States and $8.00 in 33 States? Is a Low Minimum Wage the Problem?
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2013/08/why-work-for-725-when-welfare-pays-1500.html

Spot On!
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Re: Why Work....

Postby ScaupHunter » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:07 am

There is no way in hell a welfare slug should be making more than a person working minimum wage.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby Edge » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:22 am

It totals $29 in Hawaii.....
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Re: Why Work....

Postby assateague » Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:48 am

ScaupHunter wrote:There is no way in hell a welfare slug should be making more than a person working minimum wage.



Nope. Nor should they be eating better than someone earning their living.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby dudejcb » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:55 pm

This was looking pretty good until I saw that Idaho pays squat for squat. :lol3:

As one of the resident socialists, progressive fools, I agree it's frustrating when porch monkeys milk the system ... and there are a lot of dirt bags more than willing to take inappropriate advantage.

Can we soak the goverment cheese in birth control chems?
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Re: Why Work....

Postby Indaswamp » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:57 pm

dudejcb wrote:This was looking pretty good until I saw that Idaho pays squat for squat. :lol3:

As one of the resident socialists, progressive fools, I agree it's frustrating when porch monkeys milk the system ... and there are a lot of dirt bags more than willing to take inappropriate advantage.

Can we soak the goverment cheese in birth control chems?

mandatory birth control...I'm for it! And no voting rights if you take a hand out.... :wink:
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Re: Why Work....

Postby gangrig25 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:03 pm

No wonder I can't find any employees.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby boney fingers » Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:43 pm

Not only does it pay more, you also get a lot more vacation days. This is just another nail in our coffin; thanks all you bleeding hearts.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:24 pm

boney fingers wrote:Not only does it pay more, you also get a lot more vacation days.
Somewhere right around 365 most years and every 4 years they reward you with a 366th just to make sure you turn out in the fall and vote for your benefactor.

gangrig25 wrote:No wonder I can't find any employees.
:thumbsup:
And if they do work, the government punishes them by taking back the money. In some cases, it is possibly to be working for a net negative income when you account for the welfare that you lose.

It's pretty ironic that these same dumbass do-gooder liberals that whine about needing to increase the minimum wage have created a system where the effective tax rate can be so high that you work for far less than the minimum wage they claim is essential?

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Re: Why Work....

Postby beretta24 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:05 pm

Indaswamp wrote:
dudejcb wrote:This was looking pretty good until I saw that Idaho pays squat for squat. :lol3:

As one of the resident socialists, progressive fools, I agree it's frustrating when porch monkeys milk the system ... and there are a lot of dirt bags more than willing to take inappropriate advantage.

Can we soak the goverment cheese in birth control chems?

mandatory birth control...I'm for it! And no voting rights if you take a hand out.... :wink:

Can't get on with mandatory birth control, BUT I would start with not increasing welfare benefits after 2 kids. Remove the incentive little by little. If you go too far too fast schit will just blow up.

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Re: Why Work....

Postby dudejcb » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:27 pm

It's pretty clear no one (except the recipients) is on board with welfare cheats.

Just wondering: where does everyone stand on corporate welfare? You know what I'm talking about.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby cartervj » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:06 pm

dudejcb wrote:It's pretty clear no one (except the recipients) is on board with welfare cheats.

Just wondering: where does everyone stand on corporate welfare? You know what I'm talking about.



like those bankrupt GREEN companies :lol3:
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Re: Why Work....

Postby beretta24 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:13 pm

cartervj wrote:
dudejcb wrote:It's pretty clear no one (except the recipients) is on board with welfare cheats.

Just wondering: where does everyone stand on corporate welfare? You know what I'm talking about.



like those bankrupt GREEN companies :lol3:

I was thinking more like goofy deductions and stuff...I think we should have constant tax rates, not necessarily flat, and no deductions. I apologize is you're an accountant, but if you're doing taxes your job should be eliminated.

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Re: Why Work....

Postby Indaswamp » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:15 pm

boney fingers wrote:Not only does it pay more, you also get a lot more vacation days. This is just another nail in our coffin; thanks all you bleeding hearts.

plus-you do not have to pay taxes on the hand out money, so take that $ figure as after tax pay and it is even more of a reason for people not to work.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby assateague » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:16 pm

dudejcb wrote:It's pretty clear no one (except the recipients) is on board with welfare cheats.

Just wondering: where does everyone stand on corporate welfare? You know what I'm talking about.



Easiest way to solve all of it is to go to a Fair Tax. Poof. Everybody equal, just like that.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby cartervj » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:29 pm

beretta24 wrote:
cartervj wrote:
dudejcb wrote:It's pretty clear no one (except the recipients) is on board with welfare cheats.

Just wondering: where does everyone stand on corporate welfare? You know what I'm talking about.



like those bankrupt GREEN companies :lol3:

I was thinking more like goofy deductions and stuff...I think we should have constant tax rates, not necessarily flat, and no deductions. I apologize is you're an accountant, but if you're doing taxes your job should be eliminated.

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a flat rate is the most fair tax possible, no deducts, 5 minutes to fill out


GE seems to be another corporate welfare recipient and reeks of cronyism
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Re: Why Work....

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:32 pm

dudejcb wrote:It's pretty clear no one (except the recipients) is on board with welfare cheats.
What about people that simply make more money by not working that are doing it 100% legally?

It's not that cheats that are wrecking society. It is the people responding to the incentives and more specifically the disincentives created by means testing.

Means testing sounds good, but it creates often very harsh disincentives to increase your means by hard work. Who is going to take a second job if doing so nets you very near $0 per hour.

We are so deeply into this mindset that people will curl up and die if not for government assistance, I think there is only one way out. Give every single American 1/4th of the poverty level in the form of a handout, treated as taxable income, but put the standard deduction significantly above that and pass a constitutional amendment that prohibits ALL other forms of welfare. We have just eliminated statistical poverty in American and we have eliminate all disincentive to earn more money created by the insane marginal tax rates that result from means testing. Even multimillionaires like the Obama's would get 4 checks, one for Barack, one for Michelle, one for Sasha, and one for Malia. Same for the poorest Americans.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby assateague » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:33 pm

cartervj wrote:
beretta24 wrote:
cartervj wrote:
dudejcb wrote:It's pretty clear no one (except the recipients) is on board with welfare cheats.

Just wondering: where does everyone stand on corporate welfare? You know what I'm talking about.



like those bankrupt GREEN companies :lol3:

I was thinking more like goofy deductions and stuff...I think we should have constant tax rates, not necessarily flat, and no deductions. I apologize is you're an accountant, but if you're doing taxes your job should be eliminated.

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a flat rate is the most fair tax possible, no deducts, 5 minutes to fill out


GE seems to be another corporate welfare recipient and reeks of cronyism



Nope. Because then you still don't "capture" the cash economy, nor would welfare recipients be paying anything. 10% Fair Tax. Everybody's equal, no paperwork to fill out, nothing.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:40 pm

assateague wrote:Because then you still don't "capture" the cash economy
How do you collect tax on drug sales if they remain illegal? :huh:

It seems to me like it just misses a different piece. When you pay for services under the table, it is still not taxed.

assateague wrote:Everybody's equal, no paperwork to fill out, nothing.
Somebody still has paper work to fill out. How else will the government collect those taxes? :huh:

I agree, it is a better system. It is not a perfect system by any means. Would it be harder to cheat than an extremely simple income tax? I'm not convinced. People are cleaver when it comes to beating the system. My biggest problem is that it requires a constitutional amendment otherwise you will get both eventually.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby assateague » Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:59 am

SpinnerMan wrote:
assateague wrote:Because then you still don't "capture" the cash economy
How do you collect tax on drug sales if they remain illegal? :huh:

It seems to me like it just misses a different piece. When you pay for services under the table, it is still not taxed.

assateague wrote:Everybody's equal, no paperwork to fill out, nothing.
Somebody still has paper work to fill out. How else will the government collect those taxes? :huh:

I agree, it is a better system. It is not a perfect system by any means. Would it be harder to cheat than an extremely simple income tax? I'm not convinced. People are cleaver when it comes to beating the system. My biggest problem is that it requires a constitutional amendment otherwise you will get both eventually.



The "tax" on drug sales would be collected when they go buy an orange soda, a bag of chips, clothes, McDonald's, or a new car. Everybody buys "stuff". As it is now, you're "penalized" for making money, which is stupid. With a Fair Tax, you're penalized for spending money, which is a far better idea. Perhaps it may actually teach people thrift, provide much needed deposits for banks to make loans, and would drastically stimulate the economy by providing people with a "full" paycheck. Welfare recipients may try to "learn" to make their own food, because they save more. Since they would also be forced to contribute under a Fair Tax. There is absolutely no downside to it.

As for the paperwork, all those mechanisms are already in place, with the exception of Delaware and whatever other couple states don't have a sales tax.

Worrying about these "maybe" black markets which would spring up everywhere is silly. Exchanging a 20-25% tax rate for a 10% tax rate would hardly make a black market worth the trouble. As for those who would "seek" a black market because the 10% Fair Tax is the first tax they've ever had to pay, well, that won't matter either, because they don't pay anything in as it is. And they'll still buy their McDonald's..
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Re: Why Work....

Postby assateague » Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:00 am

But the single biggest attraction to me is that everyone has some skin in the game, which even with the most simplified income tax isn't the case.
Last edited by assateague on Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby boney fingers » Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:29 am

Indaswamp wrote:
boney fingers wrote:Not only does it pay more, you also get a lot more vacation days. This is just another nail in our coffin; thanks all you bleeding hearts.

plus-you do not have to pay taxes on the hand out money, so take that $ figure as after tax pay and it is even more of a reason for people not to work.


I assumed that taxes were figured in as part of the equation. If not that's even worse. I do know many of them take under the table jobs with all their free time. Also disability and workers comp are abused just as bad or worse.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby go get the bird » Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:52 am

assateague wrote:But the single biggest attraction to me is that everyone has some skin in the game, which even with the most simplified income tax isn't the case.


So how does this apply to corporate taxation? Do they get 10% across the board as well?

I'm torn between the two idea of how this would affect our society. On one hand, as a responsible person, I'd like to think that the government would be collecting a significantly less amount of money due to people saving their money. Instead of their entire, or most at least, paycheck being used on necessities, people would have a little something left over to save.

On the other hand, people are stupid, and they will spend every last cent until there are holes in their pockets.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby Indaswamp » Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:57 am

go get the bird wrote:
assateague wrote:But the single biggest attraction to me is that everyone has some skin in the game, which even with the most simplified income tax isn't the case.


So how does this apply to corporate taxation? Do they get 10% across the board as well?

I'm torn between the two idea of how this would affect our society. On one hand, as a responsible person, I'd like to think that the government would be collecting a significantly less amount of money due to people saving their money. Instead of their entire, or most at least, paycheck being used on necessities, people would have a little something left over to save.

On the other hand, people are stupid, and they will spend every last cent until there are holes in their pockets.

Gov. does not care about people saving money. They WANT people to spend money and incentivize it by lowering interest rates so people borrow money to buy toys. They must continually expand credit creation or our economy dies.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby assateague » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:43 am

go get the bird wrote:
assateague wrote:But the single biggest attraction to me is that everyone has some skin in the game, which even with the most simplified income tax isn't the case.


So how does this apply to corporate taxation? Do they get 10% across the board as well?

I'm torn between the two idea of how this would affect our society. On one hand, as a responsible person, I'd like to think that the government would be collecting a significantly less amount of money due to people saving their money. Instead of their entire, or most at least, paycheck being used on necessities, people would have a little something left over to save.

On the other hand, people are stupid, and they will spend every last cent until there are holes in their pockets.



There will be no such thing as a "corporate tax". There is only the Fair Tax. When they buy something, they pay the 10% on it.
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