Why Work....

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Re: Why Work....

Postby go get the bird » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:46 am

assateague wrote:
go get the bird wrote:
assateague wrote:But the single biggest attraction to me is that everyone has some skin in the game, which even with the most simplified income tax isn't the case.


So how does this apply to corporate taxation? Do they get 10% across the board as well?

I'm torn between the two idea of how this would affect our society. On one hand, as a responsible person, I'd like to think that the government would be collecting a significantly less amount of money due to people saving their money. Instead of their entire, or most at least, paycheck being used on necessities, people would have a little something left over to save.

On the other hand, people are stupid, and they will spend every last cent until there are holes in their pockets.



There will be no such thing as a "corporate tax". There is only the Fair Tax. When they buy something, they pay the 10% on it.

So a company that creates and sells intangible items will never pay tax, right?
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Re: Why Work....

Postby Indaswamp » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:47 am

assateague wrote:
go get the bird wrote:
assateague wrote:But the single biggest attraction to me is that everyone has some skin in the game, which even with the most simplified income tax isn't the case.


So how does this apply to corporate taxation? Do they get 10% across the board as well?

I'm torn between the two idea of how this would affect our society. On one hand, as a responsible person, I'd like to think that the government would be collecting a significantly less amount of money due to people saving their money. Instead of their entire, or most at least, paycheck being used on necessities, people would have a little something left over to save.

On the other hand, people are stupid, and they will spend every last cent until there are holes in their pockets.



There will be no such thing as a "corporate tax". There is only the Fair Tax. When they buy something, they pay the 10% on it.

Won't ever happen. the tax system is set up to favor business creation. Always will be. Even the fair tax proposals of the past were only for income tax.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby assateague » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:57 am

go get the bird wrote:
assateague wrote:
go get the bird wrote:
assateague wrote:But the single biggest attraction to me is that everyone has some skin in the game, which even with the most simplified income tax isn't the case.


So how does this apply to corporate taxation? Do they get 10% across the board as well?

I'm torn between the two idea of how this would affect our society. On one hand, as a responsible person, I'd like to think that the government would be collecting a significantly less amount of money due to people saving their money. Instead of their entire, or most at least, paycheck being used on necessities, people would have a little something left over to save.

On the other hand, people are stupid, and they will spend every last cent until there are holes in their pockets.



There will be no such thing as a "corporate tax". There is only the Fair Tax. When they buy something, they pay the 10% on it.

So a company that creates and sells intangible items will never pay tax, right?


Like what?
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Re: Why Work....

Postby assateague » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:58 am

For the record, if you "sell" something, it doesn't have to be tangible.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby go get the bird » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:00 am

assateague wrote:
go get the bird wrote:
assateague wrote:
go get the bird wrote:
assateague wrote:But the single biggest attraction to me is that everyone has some skin in the game, which even with the most simplified income tax isn't the case.


So how does this apply to corporate taxation? Do they get 10% across the board as well?

I'm torn between the two idea of how this would affect our society. On one hand, as a responsible person, I'd like to think that the government would be collecting a significantly less amount of money due to people saving their money. Instead of their entire, or most at least, paycheck being used on necessities, people would have a little something left over to save.

On the other hand, people are stupid, and they will spend every last cent until there are holes in their pockets.



There will be no such thing as a "corporate tax". There is only the Fair Tax. When they buy something, they pay the 10% on it.

So a company that creates and sells intangible items will never pay tax, right?


Like what?

Music. That industy is huge. Short of the wages of your employees, and your initial cost of servers and whatever other equipment, you really don't need to "buy" anything, expecially if your output is completely digital.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby ScaupHunter » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:18 am

Music is not an intangible product. It comes in many forms. All of which are trackable. It can be in CD, MP4 and other formats. You recieve a real digital MP4 file and store it in a device and use it freely once purchased. If it can be tracked it is not an intangible.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby go get the bird » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:20 am

I can see how the Fair Tax would work if the burdon were on the service/goods provider to pay the tax.

Everything would be purchased tax free. You would lose 10% of your paycheck, but you wouldn't have to pay taxes when you bought groceries, gas, clothes, whatever.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby go get the bird » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:23 am

ScaupHunter wrote:Music is not an intangible product. It comes in many forms. All of which are trackable. It can be in CD, MP4 and other formats. You recieve a real digital MP4 file and store it in a device and use it freely once purchased. If it can be tracked it is not an intangible.


The point was there is little to no input cost into music, other than the initial purchase of equipment and labor. You could open a record label and only sell digital copies of music, and never pay tax.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby ScaupHunter » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:26 am

Place a flat tax on all companies on product going out their door. Kill the income tax for citizens, and tarriff every product coming into the country. Economic problem solved. I would have another $1,000 + dollars a month to save and spend if the Fed was not stealing my money and wasting it on stupid Schit like welfare. A good portion of that $1,000 would be put back into the economy. Now multiply that $1,000 by every working in America then X 12 and you have billions of more dollars available to be spent on products that are taxed when sold by the companies in America.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby assateague » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:32 am

go get the bird wrote:I can see how the Fair Tax would work if the burdon were on the service/goods provider to pay the tax.

Everything would be purchased tax free. You would lose 10% of your paycheck, but you wouldn't have to pay taxes when you bought groceries, gas, clothes, whatever.



I'm not sure I get what you're saying here.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby go get the bird » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:43 am

assateague wrote:
go get the bird wrote:I can see how the Fair Tax would work if the burdon were on the service/goods provider to pay the tax.

Everything would be purchased tax free. You would lose 10% of your paycheck, but you wouldn't have to pay taxes when you bought groceries, gas, clothes, whatever.



I'm not sure I get what you're saying here.


The point is where you place the tax matters. If you place the tax on the SALE, on the providers side, the fair tax would work, IMO.

If you place the burdon of tax anywhere else, it won't work.

Think about it like this- If, like above, everything were puchased tax free by the user, the "fair tax" would work. As a company, you would buy all of your materials, labor, or whatever goes into the making of your product completely tax free. This means that, as an employee, the company is technically buying your labor. You, on the other hand, as an employee, are responsible for the 10%, or the tax on the sale of your labor. In turn, you can buy anything- groceries, gas, tires, diapers, whatever- completely tax free. When you buy said items, whoever you buy them from would be responsible for paying the tax.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby go get the bird » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:49 am

Also, the people that would hurt the most are those that provide the raw materials for the making of products, as they are stuck paying a tax bill that, through accounting, can't be placed on anyone else. However, if this system were to be placed in effect, their margins would have to reflect the extra tax burdon.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby assateague » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:51 am

No. It would be handled exactly like the sales tax currently in existence. A business can (and more than likely would, as is the case now) pass it on to the customer, or they may not. Either way, it doesn't matter, as it is the one collecting the money who must pay the tax. How they choose to "collect" it is up to them, whether through an additional sales tax added on at time of purchase, built into the cost of goods and services, or not passed on at all, but eaten by the seller, if their profit margins are large enough to allow that.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby assateague » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:53 am

go get the bird wrote:Also, the people that would hurt the most are those that provide the raw materials for the making of products, as they are stuck paying a tax bill that, through accounting, can't be placed on anyone else. However, if this system were to be placed in effect, their margins would have to reflect the extra tax burdon.


Again, no. What you said doesn't make sense. The ones selling the raw materials would charge the additional 10%, just as the ones selling the final product would charge the additional 10%.

There is no downside to this.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby go get the bird » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:58 am

assateague wrote:Either way, it doesn't matter, as it is the one collecting the money who must pay the tax. .

That's my point. I see that as the only way this would work.

You work for Bills mining company, which is "buying" your labor. You collect payment from said sale, and owe 10%.
Walmart collects your money for Pabst Blue Ribbon, thus, they owe 10% of the sale.
Bills mining company collects raw ore from the earth. He sells to Johns smelting company. Bills mining company owes 10%, and reflects it in sale margins.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby go get the bird » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:59 am

I think you think I'm against this. I'm not. I'm trying to spell it out, how I think it would work. :lol3:
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Re: Why Work....

Postby SpinnerMan » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:00 am

assateague wrote:There is no downside to this.


Except you have to amend the Constitution and nothing restricts it to 10% and given that we spend such a larger fraction of our GDP than that, plus if the feds cut your income tax dramatically, the states could raise the dramatically and you would still have the same "take home" pay.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby assateague » Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:17 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:
assateague wrote:There is no downside to this.


Except you have to amend the Constitution and nothing restricts it to 10% and given that we spend such a larger fraction of our GDP than that, plus if the feds cut your income tax dramatically, the states could raise the dramatically and you would still have the same "take home" pay.



The Constitution was amended to get what we have today. Nor is there any restriction placed on our current system. Aaaaand nothing says the states can't raise the current sales tax rates, which range anywhere from 0% to about 9% (I think- it may be higher)

I really don't see how any of your concerns are specific to a Fair Tax, rather than to any possible tax.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby assateague » Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:16 pm

And the Fair Tax would avoid crap like this



IRS is targeting the American Legion with new set of guidelines


“The IRS now requires American Legion posts to maintain dates of service and character of service records for all members… The penalty for not having the required proof of eligibility is, apparently, $1,000 per day,” the American Legion stated.

The American Legion was referring to a 13-part section of Part 4, Chapter 76 of the Internal Revenue Manual pertaining to “veterans’ organizations.” The section falls under “Exempt Organizations Examination Guidelines,” which is the jurisdiction of Exempt Organizations head Lois Lerner, who apologized for improperly targeting tea party groups and tried to plead the Fifth Amendment in a congressional hearing.

“If a post is unable or not willing to turn over this personal information, it’s possible they could face a fine of $1,000 per day,” Moran continued.



http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/23/irs-is-targeting-the-american-legion-with-audit-new-set-of-guidelines/
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Re: Why Work....

Postby SpinnerMan » Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:05 pm

assateague wrote:
SpinnerMan wrote:
assateague wrote:There is no downside to this.


Except you have to amend the Constitution and nothing restricts it to 10% and given that we spend such a larger fraction of our GDP than that, plus if the feds cut your income tax dramatically, the states could raise the dramatically and you would still have the same "take home" pay.



The Constitution was amended to get what we have today. Nor is there any restriction placed on our current system. Aaaaand nothing says the states can't raise the current sales tax rates, which range anywhere from 0% to about 9% (I think- it may be higher)

I really don't see how any of your concerns are specific to a Fair Tax, rather than to any possible tax.

To some degree that is my point. It's just another tax. It's not a magic solution. It has pluses and minuses. On average I think the pluses outweigh the minuses, but at the end of the day, every penny the government spends is a penny the average American will have to fork over in some form and the form doesn't really matter that much to me. An income tax without withholding and the bogus employer "matching" and then the game changes massively.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby dudejcb » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:00 am

To answer the question the thread initially posed ... I work because the cost of admission is low and the entertainment value is high. And, I want things, like food, gas and a new boat motor.

Looking for a slightly used Evinrude ETEC 90 horse with a jet and trim...and I'd like to pay about $1000. :grooving:
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Re: Why Work....

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:41 pm

dudejcb wrote:And, I want things, like food, gas and a new boat motor.
and what if you were looking for little more than a six pack and getting laid now and again? You can shack up with some single mother living off of the government, you know she puts out, she already had at least one, and if you leave another bun in the oven, not your problem, the ever benevolent Uncle Sam's got your back and you can be off to the next babe before you have to change the first diaper.

Welfare is not destructive to the people that set a moderate bar for their life's goals. It is destructive to those that set a low bar.

I have a cousin quit college because she didn't like it, go to beauty school and finish but never pursue a job, and she know shacks up with her loser boyfriend living off of my Aunt and I guess technically off of her loser father who's aspirations for years were to get on disability which he finally succeeded in doing because he wrecked his body by not controlling his diabetes and is about 60 years old and looks like he is 110 and can't even hunt anymore which the increased free time to hunt was probably one of the big reasons he wanted to get on disability and not have to go to work 5 days a week. Although when he got his 2nd DUI while waiting for trial on his 1st DUI, he lost the right to own guns, not sure if it was temporary while on parole or permanent because he is a felon.

This is not uncommon. I can go on and on about all the Image up things that result from the moral hazard created by the welfare incentives combined with the adverse selection that results from their ignorance of basic common sense or misunderstanding of implications of the long run impact that these choices will have upon them. My cousin could easily be making $50k/yr today, but she would improve her economic fortunes if she could get a job at Walmart like her half-brother did. Yes, her half-brother really improved his families economic condition when he got a job at Walmart, but that was because he married the mother of his child before they had the kid, so they missed out on all the benefits of being a single motherhood, so he has to work to have the same standard of living.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby dudejcb » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:15 pm

Whut? All that from a light-hearted remark about not taking work too seriously?

Seek (professional) help. You have lots of issues percolating inside your head.
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Re: Why Work....

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:03 pm

dudejcb wrote:Whut? All that from a light-hearted remark about not taking work too seriously?

Seek (professional) help. You have lots of issues percolating inside your head.

Yes, because so many lives have been harmed and destroyed by this. Sorry if I don't find the destruction of people's lives amusing.

Just laugh of the failures of the laws that Democrats create. Standard operating procedure.
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