Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby slowshooter » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:11 am

So the push to make trucks more like cars has evolved a truck that doesn't function well as either?

Wow. It's a $50,000.00 futon. It does nothing right!
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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby wanapasaki » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:16 am

you couldn't get any more closer to the truth :lol3:
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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby beretta24 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:19 am

slowshooter wrote:
beretta24 wrote:
slowshooter wrote:Years ago Henry Ford let his workers off on weekends and paid them high wages. His reasoning was that he wanted the best, and wanted the best to purchase his product and have the time to actually use it on weekends.

Walmart pays low wages. Relies on local governments to cover the gap. They also don't provide benefits.

Any one wonder why their sales are slumping? It's because their own workers can't afford to buy their products. Now, they can't even keep the shelves stocked.

Walmart is not going to survive in it's current form. Discounts don't matter when the locals don't have money to spend.

You heard it here first. Like usual.

Prepare for a depression. Where the goods you want simply aren't available. Because that's what's coming.

The third to last paragraph is laughable...in a depression Walmart will do well, at least at the get go because of prices. If my memory serves me correct they didn't do bad a few years ago. When income falls people will go to the cheapest alternative. And most couldn't garden to save their lives.

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Laugh away. The biggest problem in the depression wasn't lack of money. The biggest problem was product availability.

Only after WWII were most products widely available.

The retailers are reliant on the supply chain - Walmart is having trouble stocking the shelves TODAY.

Your assertion was based on people's cash availability, not Wallmart's content. And who do you think will lose the ability to stock shelves faster, mom and pop shop or Wally world.

Like I said, wally world will fine, at least at the start of a depression. The size, magnitude, and duration of the depression will determine what happens in the end.

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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby Indaswamp » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:31 am

slowshooter wrote:
beretta24 wrote:
slowshooter wrote:Years ago Henry Ford let his workers off on weekends and paid them high wages. His reasoning was that he wanted the best, and wanted the best to purchase his product and have the time to actually use it on weekends.

Walmart pays low wages. Relies on local governments to cover the gap. They also don't provide benefits.

Any one wonder why their sales are slumping? It's because their own workers can't afford to buy their products. Now, they can't even keep the shelves stocked.

Walmart is not going to survive in it's current form. Discounts don't matter when the locals don't have money to spend.

You heard it here first. Like usual.

Prepare for a depression. Where the goods you want simply aren't available. Because that's what's coming.

The third to last paragraph is laughable...in a depression Walmart will do well, at least at the get go because of prices. If my memory serves me correct they didn't do bad a few years ago. When income falls people will go to the cheapest alternative. And most couldn't garden to save their lives.

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Laugh away. The biggest problem in the depression wasn't lack of money. The biggest problem was product availability.

Only after WWII were most products widely available.


The retailers are reliant on the supply chain - Walmart is having trouble stocking the shelves TODAY.

The problem with the depression is the same problem we have today-too much cheap credit creation. Back then it was buying stocks on margin, along with a laundry list of other credit problems, and when it vaporized, deflation kicked the economies azz. Research Creditanstalt Bank failure. Policies perused by politicians of the day only exasperated the problems and prolonged the pain. This is why I mentioned people should study financial history. Roaring 20's??? That ring a bell??? The depression was the bust after that boom, and that boom was brought about because of the new debt created by the new central bank, the newly created FED. Remember-gold was confiscated and subsequent revalued from $20.67/oz. to $35 that is a 30% loss. This bailed the banks out. The banks were bailed out in 2008 too. So, if it was not a problem of not enough money, then why revalue gold?
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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby Indaswamp » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:37 am

slowshooter wrote:So was he a failure? Yes and yes. Because after that, his second attempt failed as well. May you shouldn't rely so heavily on cherry picking Google facts. The difference between you and I? I'm doing this from memory.... You gotta run to the Google brain.

You asked what he was at the turn of the century. He was killing DAC. Then he killed the Henry Ford Company.

Only after TWO failed companies did he actually start to be successful on his third venture.

Here's your butt back. I didn't gift wrap it. :lol3:

Glad you can admit he is an Oligarch........ :thumbsup:
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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby clampdaddy » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:24 am

slowshooter wrote:
clampdaddy wrote:
wanapasaki wrote:He still didn't do it right... 100 years later and they still can't get those things to run right :fingerhead:


Their problem is that they are constantly trying to improve things that don't need improving. We've been using spark plugs for over a century. In the 5.4 ford found a way to turn a spark plug into a high speed projectile. To improve upon this they did some redesigning and found a way to design a situation where those plugs no longer blow out of the heads, they break off instead. :huh: It's all good though because they designed a broken spark plug extraction kit. :thumbsup: Let's not even get into their diesel powered rigs. :lol3: In all fairness though, their new 5.0 has been good to us so far.


Is the quality still better than GMC?

The last Chevy truck in our family was purchased in 1967. So it was a pretty good hauler. Then they went slid into making some crapola.


That happened to all of the car companies. It's like everyone just threw their hands up when they had to start making gutless, low compression smog motors. In our fleet the GM trucks seem to far outlast the Ford trucks but they have their own issues. The engines, brakes, and body/interiors hold up much better but the four wheel drives go through front wheel bearings.
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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby ScaupHunter » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:25 am

Billions in equipment, billions over the decades on quality engineering, and they still can't get a truck with a decent set of bearings in them? :rolleyes: Then they want $50,000 or more for the truck. Stupid.


In the interest of supporting Slow and his slow decent into madness over Walmart, I broke a personal rule and walked through Walmart this morning. I am on not sure where in the US Walmart is short on product. Local Walmarts are fully stocked with cheap Chinese schitt just like that always are. Walmarts problem is the KMart problem, Starbucks problem, etc..... Overly rapid expansion based on predictions made while wearing rose colored glasses is what will cause them to fail. Walmarts are getting to be as thick as ticks on a dog around here. When you over saturate a market you are going to get your fiscal butt handed to you eventually.
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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby Indaswamp » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:28 am

ScaupHunter wrote:Billions in equipment, billions over the decades on quality engineering, and they still can't get a truck with a decent set of bearing in them? :rolleyes: Then they want $50,000 or more for the truck. Stupid.


In the interest of supporting Slow and his slow decent into madness over Walmart, I broke a personal rule and walked through Walmart this morning. I am on not sure where in the US Walmart is short on product. Local Walmarts are fully stocked with cheap Chinese schitt just like that always are. Walmarts problem is the KMart problem, Starbucks problem, etc..... Overly rapid expansion based on predictions made while wearing rose colored glasses is what will cause them to fail. Walmarts are getting to be as thick as ticks on a dog around here. When you over saturate a market you are going to get your fiscal butt handed to you eventually.

That is not a problem exclusive to those companies mentioned...it is rampant throughout our economy.
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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby clampdaddy » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:12 am

ScaupHunter wrote:Billions in equipment, billions over the decades on quality engineering, and they still can't get a truck with a decent set of bearing in them? :rolleyes: Then they want $50,000 or more for the truck. Stupid.


We have three mechanics that came from GM shops and they claim that the wheel bearing issues came about when GM went to a lower viscosity high speed grease to gain a mile per gallon in order to meet federal fuel economy standards. I can't say for sure if that is true but I know that when mine went out I went to an aftermarket bearing and haven't had any more issues
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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:43 am

TomKat wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
TomKat wrote:Henry Ford actually produced something; Walmart merely acts as a middle man to peddle the work of others.

And we have a service economy today in America. Is that Wal-mart's fault too??? :rolleyes:

Part of me admires walmart, but mostly I dont like them.

I am all for bringing manufacturing. We have been in a down hill slide ever since the 1970's.

Image

The same thing happened in agriculture. Labor saving technology like Ford tractors caused output to go up and employment to go down.

Walmart made my dinner last night right there in the store. I like their rotisserie chicken when I don't feel like cooking. If I got a chicken and did it myself, I doubt I could save $2 over what they charge. Also, picked up a few other things, not my intent, but coincidentally they were 100% American products.

Every manufacturer has to have a retailer. Even Ford would have been nothing without retailers. Walmart has massively improved the retail market and that saves consumers massive amounts.

People that whine about how little they pay always neglect that most of the workers would be paid EVEN LESS elsewhere or they wouldn't be working there, would they? :no: I guess they just prefer they go on food stamps and wait for some community organizer to help them out.

Also, this complaining about American consumers demanding more services and less manufactured stuff. As we get wealthier, proportionately do we really want to use that additional income to buy more things or do we want to do more things? :huh:

The same in part drives the disproportionate value put on health care, education, entertainment, etc. But sure back when food was expensive because a farm spent the day whipping his mule team, increased income went to increased food more than health care, hunting trips, or even durable goods. Of course back then you couldn't stop in Walmart and get a fully cooked whole chicken for a tiny fraction of your weekly income and every entry level person person working at Walmart can afford it, as long as they haven't spent too much on their smart phone with an unlimited data plan.
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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby beretta24 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:45 am

clampdaddy wrote:
ScaupHunter wrote:Billions in equipment, billions over the decades on quality engineering, and they still can't get a truck with a decent set of bearing in them? :rolleyes: Then they want $50,000 or more for the truck. Stupid.


We have three mechanics that came from GM shops and they claim that the wheel bearing issues came about when GM went to a lower viscosity high speed grease to gain a mile per gallon in order to meet federal fuel economy standards. I can't say for sure if that is true but I know that when mine went out I went to an aftermarket bearing and haven't had any more issues

I've gone through one in an '03 in 120K

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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby dudejcb » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:47 am

Indaswamp wrote:I find it hilarious that on the one hand you despise Oligarchy, yet you praise Ford!

I'm surprised that Inda would choose to obfuscate.

It's quite clear that Slow wasn't praising Ford as an oligarch, just that he at least came to the conclusion that when the workers prosper sufficiently they can then be consumers, and in his own best interest he paid them better than he needed to. He could've taken the short view to maximize profits and self enrichment.

Like it or not, middle class consumerism--to the extent it's not base on extensive debt--is what powers our economy.

The Walmart business model is bad for our country and our future on several levels. They could easily change to be more supportive of America if they wanted. Instead they have launched a massive greenwashing campaign in an attempt to curry public opinion.
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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby beretta24 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:00 am

dudejcb wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:I find it hilarious that on the one hand you despise Oligarchy, yet you praise Ford!

I'm surprised that Inda would choose to obfuscate.

It's quite clear that Slow wasn't praising Ford as an oligarch, just that he at least came to the conclusion that when the workers prosper sufficiently they can then be consumers, and in his own best interest he paid them better than he needed to. He could've taken the short view to maximize profits and self enrichment.

Like it or not, middle class consumerism--to the extent it's not base on extensive debt--is what powers our economy.

The Walmart business model is bad for our country and our future on several levels. They could easily change to be more supportive of America if they wanted. Instead they have launched a massive greenwashing campaign in an attempt to curry public opinion.

And people could refuse to buy their cheap schit! They saw a hole and filled it. You'd be better off berating your neighbor for going than pointing at their business model.

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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:02 am

dudejcb wrote: in his own best interest he paid them better than he needed to
If it was in his interest, then he did in fact need to pay them more and it was in no way altruistic and based on good old fashion greed and self-interest :yes:

Does every business benefit from paying more? How much more? Double, triple, quadruple, 10x, 100x, ...

They can pay too much just like they can pay too little for their own self-interest. Who didn't know this? :huh:

Where is the optimum?

Conservative - who the hell knows, but let the free market work it out because that is the people that know best deciding for themselves.

Liberal - I know and it is more, always more because I feel better about myself by declaring that other people should spend more of their money

If more was more, liberals should just prove it and they would make a fortune in the process would they not. Just open up a store next to Walmart and offer every person that quits Walmart double what they were making and they could just watch the cash roll in to their store.

beretta24 wrote:You'd be better off berating your neighbor for going than pointing at their business model.
:thumbsup:

If customer is always right, then nobody is righter than Walmart :yes:

There is a hilarious South Park episode that really nails this topic well as only South Park can.
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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby assateague » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:04 am

Dude, how many of the part time employees at the local Ace hardware store, or any other "mom and pop" have benefits? How many are paid more than those at Walmart? How many have the job security of a Walmart employee?

The idea of bashing the Walmart business model is nothing short of retarded, and makes proponents of the bashing appear equally simpleminded. I find it amusing that liberals are more than happy to espouse the "conservative" business ideals enshrined in the "mom and pop" concept, but then badmouth any other social conservative ideals as "backwards" and not "keeping up with the times".

So which is it, you pack of hypocrites- are ideals from the 40s good, or is "change" good?
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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby dudejcb » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:09 am

beretta24 wrote:
dudejcb wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:I find it hilarious that on the one hand you despise Oligarchy, yet you praise Ford!

I'm surprised that Inda would choose to obfuscate.

It's quite clear that Slow wasn't praising Ford as an oligarch, just that he at least came to the conclusion that when the workers prosper sufficiently they can then be consumers, and in his own best interest he paid them better than he needed to. He could've taken the short view to maximize profits and self enrichment.

Like it or not, middle class consumerism--to the extent it's not base on extensive debt--is what powers our economy.

The Walmart business model is bad for our country and our future on several levels. They could easily change to be more supportive of America if they wanted. Instead they have launched a massive greenwashing campaign in an attempt to curry public opinion.

And people could refuse to buy their cheap schit! They saw a hole and filled it. You'd be better off berating your neighbor for going than pointing at their business model.

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True, but have you seen the people at Walmart? Honey boo boo. I doubt derision would have any effect. Unless I have no other option, the only thing I will buy from Walmart--because of their business model--is oil for my truck, but even for that I prefer to go to my local auto parts or Costco. They tend to squeeze their suppliers to drive down prices and I think the oil companies could use some squeezing.

BTW Spinner: Costco's cooked chickens are better, as are most of their meats.
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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby dudejcb » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:15 am

assateague wrote:The idea of bashing the Walmart business model is nothing short of retarded, and makes proponents of the bashing appear equally simpleminded. I find it amusing that liberals are more than happy to espouse the "conservative" business ideals enshrined in the "mom and pop" concept, but then badmouth any other social conservative ideals as "backwards" and not "keeping up with the times".

So which is it, you pack of hypocrites- are ideals from the 40s good, or is "change" good?
If you're on board with Wally World great. You be a genius.
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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby assateague » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:20 am

Thanks for avoiding the point. I pretty much expected it, since liberals, when faced with an awkward decision, just pop smoke.




So, why do liberals idolize the perception of conservative, unchanging business practices of the "mom and pop", but demonize the "change" inherent in Walmart? Why is the Constitution an outdated document, but the "mom and pop concept" isn't outdated? Why is the Constitution a "living document" to liberals, but economics isn't?

Again, just a flaming pack of hypocrites.
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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby ScaupHunter » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:53 am

Costco chickens are the bomb. I wouldn't eat a chicken from Wally World.
I would be worried about who was cooking it. You can see the workers at Costco.
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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby Indaswamp » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:59 am

ScaupHunter wrote:Costco chickens are the bomb. I wouldn't eat a chicken from Wally World.
I would be worried about who was cooking it. You can see the workers at Costco.

Local Grocery store rotisserie chickens blow them both away. I'll pay the $0.50 more for one. People don't buy them from walmart until the local grocery runs out....then they drive over to wal-mart with their head hung low... :lol3: It's to the point that if people are walking around in the store and they announce over the intercom that fresh rotisserie chickens are being put out, it's a race to see who can get one! :lol3:
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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby dudejcb » Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:07 pm

assateague wrote:Thanks for avoiding the point. I pretty much expected it, since liberals, when faced with an awkward decision, just pop smoke.




So, why do liberals idolize the perception of conservative, unchanging business practices of the "mom and pop", but demonize the "change" inherent in Walmart? Why is the Constitution an outdated document, but the "mom and pop concept" isn't outdated? Why is the Constitution a "living document" to liberals, but economics isn't?

Again, just a flaming pack of hypocrites.
What was your point? You made some assumptions and assertions that in my opinion were just your perception, which you're entitle to. Perhaps I was too general when I said "Walmart business model." Some of their practices are good, like computerized inventory. I do not the like the effect they have have of driving manufacturing offshore.

I was on a speaking panel with a Walmart person once, and was blown away with her corporate arrogance. Maybe that plays into my low opinion of them.
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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby Indaswamp » Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:17 pm

dudejcb wrote:
assateague wrote:Thanks for avoiding the point. I pretty much expected it, since liberals, when faced with an awkward decision, just pop smoke.




So, why do liberals idolize the perception of conservative, unchanging business practices of the "mom and pop", but demonize the "change" inherent in Walmart? Why is the Constitution an outdated document, but the "mom and pop concept" isn't outdated? Why is the Constitution a "living document" to liberals, but economics isn't?

Again, just a flaming pack of hypocrites.
What was your point? You made some assumptions and assertions that in my opinion were just your perception, which you're entitle to. Perhaps I was too general when I said "Walmart business model." Some of their practices are good, like computerized inventory. I do not the like the effect they have have of driving manufacturing offshore.

I was on a speaking panel with a Walmart person once, and was blown away with her corporate arrogance. Maybe that plays into my low opinion of them.

The one paradigm shift they did usher in was that they dictate to manufacturers what they will charge customers.
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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:24 pm

dudejcb wrote:BTW Spinner: Costco's cooked chickens are better, as are most of their meats.

No Costco's conveniently located. Walmart is on one of the main road not far from my house so I drive by it about 50% of the time I go anywhere.

ScaupHunter wrote:Costco chickens are the bomb. I wouldn't eat a chicken from Wally World.
I would be worried about who was cooking it. You can see the workers at Costco.
Exactly the same. You can see the chickens cooking and who is cooking them. I even talked to the guy to see how soon the next batch was coming off the rotisserie. :thumbsup:

Indaswamp wrote:Local Grocery store rotisserie chickens blow them both away. I'll pay the $0.50 more for one.
Wow 50 cents more, they must be the bomb. :lol3:
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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby Indaswamp » Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:30 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:
dudejcb wrote:BTW Spinner: Costco's cooked chickens are better, as are most of their meats.

No Costco's conveniently located. Walmart is on one of the main road not far from my house so I drive by it about 50% of the time I go anywhere.

ScaupHunter wrote:Costco chickens are the bomb. I wouldn't eat a chicken from Wally World.
I would be worried about who was cooking it. You can see the workers at Costco.
Exactly the same. You can see the chickens cooking and who is cooking them. I even talked to the guy to see how soon the next batch was coming off the rotisserie. :thumbsup:

Indaswamp wrote:Local Grocery store rotisserie chickens blow them both away. I'll pay the $0.50 more for one.
Wow 50 cents more, they must be the bomb. :lol3:

fast as they can crank them out, they sell them....
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Re: Walmart didn't learn the lesson from Henry Ford

Postby wanapasaki » Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:31 pm

My store does rotisserie duck... MMMmmMmMMmM :beer:
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