Be Careful...

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Re: Be Careful...

Postby Locked&Loaded » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:46 am

assateague wrote:I can't believe I agree with copterdoc :lol3:


Must be a very, very cold day in hell today! :lol3:
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Re: Be Careful...

Postby TomKat » Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:16 pm

corncob wrote:all of you are made at me? i didnt have anything to do with the dog or his death.
i said i felt sorry for for the dog!!!! and asked if there were any trouble with his health.
i have never lost a dog do to heat,and never will
it just plain irresponsible...
you pillow biters think its fine to run your dog until the dog drops dead?
you guys into dog fighting too"


Corncob, I want to thank you for the amusement you provide with your attempt to spell words and make sentences. Normally I might take a crack at the Arkansas education system, but in this case, it's just not fair. Keep up the good work!

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Be Careful...

Postby copterdoc » Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:44 pm

Well, it's all gone straight to hell in a hand basket now...........................
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Re: Be Careful...

Postby Locked&Loaded » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:05 pm

TomKat wrote:
corncob wrote:all of you are made at me? i didnt have anything to do with the dog or his death.
i said i felt sorry for for the dog!!!! and asked if there were any trouble with his health.
i have never lost a dog do to heat,and never will
it just plain irresponsible...
you pillow biters think its fine to run your dog until the dog drops dead?
you guys into dog fighting too"


Corncob, I want to thank you for the amusement you provide with your attempt to spell words and make sentences. Normally I might take a crack at the Arkansas education system, but in this case, it's just not fair. Keep up the good work!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


:lol3: :lol3:
Hey TK. Good to see you, bud. How's life treatin ya?
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Re: Be Careful...

Postby jimmyscott » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:06 pm

corncob wrote:...no the dude ran his dog into the ground...keep this to the top so all the wife and child beaters learn not to run their dogs into a grave


First, we can agree on keeping this at the top to warn guys to be careful. That was my ONLY reason for sharing my experience.

Second, in my defense, I did not run him into the ground, I had water for him, and he was not fat or lazy. I don't know what ultimately happened, but I felt the need to warn guys anyway. Did I learn anything from this? Absolutely!!! Did I ever claim innocence? Never!!! Listen, what good is a forum like this if guys don't share their mistakes? I'm the first to acknowledge that I made mistakes; mistakes that you can bet I won't make again! Was I ignorant? Yes! Stupid? Well, stupid means you don't learn from your mistakes, so only time will tell. But, for the record, I believe that I learn from my mistakes. (Just for grins, how many dogs do you have to lose to bears or mountain lions before you realize you should bring them in at night? Just saying...)

Third, keep it coming. Don't let all these guys pointing out your inconsistencies and infantile use of the English language keep you from posting incoherent rants. Every time you post, you accomplish my objective. So, for that, thanks!
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Re: Be Careful...

Postby copterdoc » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:22 pm

jimmyscott wrote:.....I don't know what ultimately happened,.....
I'll tell you exactly what happened.

You fell into the same trap that every "new" trainer falls into.
Whether they are winging it, or following a regimented training program.

You FAILED to read and listen to what your dog was telling you.

Maybe you didn't know any better. I can definitely believe that. Most people don't know better.
But, that doesn't change the fact that your dog's death was your fault.

You, and only you, carried the responsibility.

It wasn't the dog's fault.
It wasn't God's fault.
It wasn't the weatherman's fault.
It was YOUR fault.
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Re: Be Careful...

Postby copterdoc » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:27 pm

It was tragic.
And neither I, nor anybody else, celebrates tragedy.

Hopefully, we can all learn something from it.
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Re: Be Careful...

Postby copterdoc » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:41 pm

BTW, lest anybody think that my "abrasiveness" is in any way "bashing" the OP, it's not.

It took some heavy duty stones to post this thread.
And I deeply respect that.

We all make mistakes. Some little ones, and some bigger ones.
It takes a MAN to recognize it, and own up to it.

That warrants respect. And I will always give respect, where respect is due.
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Re: Be Careful...

Postby Sniper John » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:43 pm

jimmyscott wrote:..I lost my hunting buddy....


My condolences jimmyscott. Very sorry for your loss.
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Re: Be Careful...

Postby TomKat » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:45 pm

Howdy L and L!
Doing great!


Copterdoc, is Corncob a relative of yours?
A double cousin, perhaps?

The reason I ask is that both of you seem to be so very knowledgeable concerning dogs, and united in your crusade to help all dogs. The two of you are like a pair of super hero dog protectors.

I have no doubt God will save a special place for both of you. Anyone who bestows their knowledge and judgement on others for such a noble cause must surely gain Gods favor.

God bless both of you.



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Re: Be Careful...

Postby jimmyscott » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:50 pm

copterdoc wrote:
jimmyscott wrote:.....I don't know what ultimately happened,.....
I'll tell you exactly what happened.

You fell into the same trap that every "new" trainer falls into.
Whether they are winging it, or following a regimented training program.

You FAILED to read and listen to what your dog was telling you.

Maybe you didn't know any better. I can definitely believe that. Most people don't know better.
But, that doesn't change the fact that your dog's death was your fault.

You, and only you, carried the responsibility.

It wasn't the dog's fault.
It wasn't God's fault.
It wasn't the weatherman's fault.
It was YOUR fault.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I never claimed otherwise. I know whose fault it was. I applaud you for making blatantly clear what was already obvious. Great work!
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Re: Be Careful...

Postby copterdoc » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:51 pm

TomKat wrote:God bless both of you.....
If I thought that you actually meant that, I would thank you.

But, you don't.
So, go **** yourself.
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Re: Be Careful...

Postby TomKat » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:06 pm

copterdoc wrote:
TomKat wrote:God bless both of you.....
If I thought that you actually meant that, I would thank you.

But, you don't.
So, go **** yourself.


Why Copterdoc, what an ugly thing to say.

What do the rules say about personal attacks?



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Re: Be Careful...

Postby TomKat » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:10 pm

copterdoc wrote:BTW, lest anybody think that my "abrasiveness" is in any way "bashing" the OP, it's not.

It took some heavy duty stones to post this thread.
And I deeply respect that.

We all make mistakes. Some little ones, and some bigger ones.
It takes a MAN to recognize it, and own up to it.

That warrants respect. And I will always give respect, where respect is due.


No you won't. That is a lie.

Which makes you a liar, among other things.



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Re: Be Careful...

Postby copterdoc » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:26 pm

TomKat wrote:....Why Copterdoc, what an ugly thing to say.....
I never claimed to be pretty.
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Re: Be Careful...

Postby Medic4049 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:08 am

I have worked as a paramedic for a Horse track for several years. I work the months of July and August. As you know these are very hot months. I have learned a trick that I use with my dogs to help an over heated dog. Rubbing alcohol. This is 100 times better than water. You dab some on ears and feet, then neck and belly and repeat as you see the areas drying. This will drop the temp. of the dog very quickly. Course put the dog and shade and take all other precautions you can too.

I am an AKC pointing breed HT jedge and keep a pint of rubbing alcohol in my saddle bags at all times. I have unfortunately had to use it several times.

I hope this will help some guys out. I hope you never have to use this, but just in case.
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Re: Be Careful...

Postby Elvis Kiwi » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:51 am

thanks medic...some positive advice is just what this thread/shite throwing session needed to help put it back on track :thumbsup:
Iv seen horses go down after a hot endurance ride and helped to pump fluids.etc into them to keep them up and going....some werent so lucky...the riders were inexperienced and didnt take a lead from the others that day.not an experience Id like to repeat,and before anyone asks MY horse was fine as she was given plenty water and cooled down well.
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Re: Be Careful...

Postby gonehuntin' » Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:22 am

copterdoc wrote:
jimmyscott wrote:.....I don't know what ultimately happened,.....
I'll tell you exactly what happened.

You fell into the same trap that every "new" trainer falls into.
Whether they are winging it, or following a regimented training program.

You FAILED to read and listen to what your dog was telling you.

Maybe you didn't know any better. I can definitely believe that. Most people don't know better.
But, that doesn't change the fact that your dog's death was your fault.

You, and only you, carried the responsibility.

It wasn't the dog's fault.
It wasn't God's fault.


It wasn't the weatherman's fault.
It was YOUR fault.


Wow. Impressive. The poor guy has admitted it was his fault yet you and the other bone head continue to trash him. Plus both of you are commenting on a situation you know nothing about or about a problem that until now you have been little versed in. I'm telling you, it is unreal how fast one of these dog's can go down with virtually no warning to the owner. Most of them don't die so my gut tells me, this dog had another pronlem like his heart that contributed to it.

Have any of you actually SEEN a dog go down of heat stroke? It's usually a very gradual thing, though it can be nearly instsntaneous. The most common reason a dog is affected and dies of heat stroke is because he is in a confined and unventilated area. Like the inside of a car or truck. You guys can insult this guy, demoralize him, and blame him but in the end it's just a couple of onternet bullies with no knowledge of the event attacking a vulnerable ex-owner.

You should both be very proud of yourselves for the hatchet job you've done. Kind of like beating a person while he's unconcious. Instead of unwarranted attacks why don't you both google heat stroke and post it and try to actually HELP some one rather than hurting them?
I hate seeing a game bird die of natural causes, unless I naturally cause it.
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Re: Be Careful...

Postby TomKat » Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:26 am

Corncob, I don't have time to teach you proper grammar, that is learned at a place called grade school.

Didn't they have English classes at your Reform school? You should have paid better attention in class.

Don't feel bad little boy, not everyone enjoys the benefit of a University education.
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Re: Be Careful...

Postby jimmyscott » Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:53 am

Medic4049 wrote:I have worked as a paramedic for a Horse track for several years. I work the months of July and August. As you know these are very hot months. I have learned a trick that I use with my dogs to help an over heated dog. Rubbing alcohol. This is 100 times better than water. You dab some on ears and feet, then neck and belly and repeat as you see the areas drying. This will drop the temp. of the dog very quickly. Course put the dog and shade and take all other precautions you can too.

I am an AKC pointing breed HT jedge and keep a pint of rubbing alcohol in my saddle bags at all times. I have unfortunately had to use it several times.

I hope this will help some guys out. I hope you never have to use this, but just in case.

This is helpful! Let's hear more of this kind of stuff.
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Re: Be Careful...

Postby sdduckman » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:38 am

Jimmy,

My deepest condolences on your loss. I wish also to express many thanks for writing about your loss. It takes a big heart to share publicly a loss like this. As a newbie to owning a hunting dog this information is invaluable. At age 54 I have my first hunting dog companion and need just such info to keep her safe.

Many thanks
Steve T.
"There are only two true sports, hunting and fishing, anything else is just a game."
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Re: Be Careful...

Postby gonehuntin' » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:02 am

jimmyscott wrote:
Medic4049 wrote:I have worked as a paramedic for a Horse track for several years. I work the months of July and August. As you know these are very hot months. I have learned a trick that I use with my dogs to help an over heated dog. Rubbing alcohol. This is 100 times better than water. You dab some on ears and feet, then neck and belly and repeat as you see the areas drying. This will drop the temp. of the dog very quickly. Course put the dog and shade and take all other precautions you can too.

I am an AKC pointing breed HT jedge and keep a pint of rubbing alcohol in my saddle bags at all times. I have unfortunately had to use it several times.

I hope this will help some guys out. I hope you never have to use this, but just in case.

This is helpful! Let's hear more of this kind of stuff.


That's great advice. The thing to watch for is excessive panting and the gums turning to a deep red. When that happens you're in trouble and the dog has to be cooled down FAST. Dogs run a body temp of about 102 so they run hotter that we are to begin with. The stomach is the area that will cool a dog the fastest. Misting cold water on his stomach will help. If I were dove hunting, I'd carry one of those gallon size garden sprayers with me. East to carry and use. It's also best if you hunt the dog from under a blind. When I hunted dove in Ca., we used a camo V tent shaped deal that let the air move through on all sides, shielded the dog from the sun, and hid the dog (though we never needed that).

We also didn't use the dog on all the birds. Any close birds we picked up. Used the dog ONLY for dove we couldn't find.

If it's one game bird you don't really NEED a dog for, it's dove ( though in some fields they can be hard to see).

Always try to keep the dog in shade.

Too much water on a dog can have the opposite effect of cooling him; you can literally steam him to death. That's why water on stomach only.

If the back end starts to wobble, his eyes look glazed, he stops listening and wanders a bit, pants excessively, COOL HIM DOWN AND FAST.

If it were feasible, it's not a bad idea to take a camo kennel along (depending on how far you have to walk) and kennel him over looking the dove field with a block of ice in the kennel. Dove hunting is usually only for an hour or so morning and night so the ice usually lasts.

That's the extent of my wisdom. Ain't much, but hope it helps.
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Re: Be Careful...

Postby brokermike » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:08 am

sdduckman wrote:Jimmy,

My deepest condolences on your loss. I wish also to express many thanks for writing about your loss. It takes a big heart to share publicly a loss like this. As a newbie to owning a hunting dog this information is invaluable. At age 54 I have my first hunting dog companion and need just such info to keep her safe.

Many thanks
Steve T.


I echo Steve's statement, thought he's got me beat by a few years :biggrin:
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Re: Be Careful...

Postby Edge » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:24 am

gonehuntin' wrote:
copterdoc wrote:
jimmyscott wrote:.....I don't know what ultimately happened,.....
I'll tell you exactly what happened.

You fell into the same trap that every "new" trainer falls into.
Whether they are winging it, or following a regimented training program.

You FAILED to read and listen to what your dog was telling you.

Maybe you didn't know any better. I can definitely believe that. Most people don't know better.
But, that doesn't change the fact that your dog's death was your fault.

You, and only you, carried the responsibility.

It wasn't the dog's fault.
It wasn't God's fault.


It wasn't the weatherman's fault.
It was YOUR fault.


Wow. Impressive. The poor guy has admitted it was his fault yet you and the other bone head continue to trash him. Plus both of you are commenting on a situation you know nothing about or about a problem that until now you have been little versed in. I'm telling you, it is unreal how fast one of these dog's can go down with virtually no warning to the owner. Most of them don't die so my gut tells me, this dog had another pronlem like his heart that contributed to it.

Have any of you actually SEEN a dog go down of heat stroke? It's usually a very gradual thing, though it can be nearly instsntaneous. The most common reason a dog is affected and dies of heat stroke is because he is in a confined and unventilated area. Like the inside of a car or truck. You guys can insult this guy, demoralize him, and blame him but in the end it's just a couple of onternet bullies with no knowledge of the event attacking a vulnerable ex-owner.

You should both be very proud of yourselves for the hatchet job you've done. Kind of like beating a person while he's unconcious. Instead of unwarranted attacks why don't you both google heat stroke and post it and try to actually HELP some one rather than hurting them?



Well said. These armchair doctors have no idea wether or not there were underlying conditions. I had a young dog die of heat stroke in my back yard while I was at work one summer. There was pleny of water and shade for the dogs. The other dogs were fine. I don't know if the 6 month old was running around the yard or playing or what, but he was in bad shape when I got home. I took him inside but he died that night. Whose fault is that? I also had a dog bitten on the sack by a copperhead, he died five days later. To just shoot from the hip and blame Jimmy, without being there and knowing first hand what happened is ignorant. And to start calling other board members names is childish at best. we are suposed to be sportsmen here, some are not acting like it.
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Re: Be Careful...

Postby gonehuntin' » Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:17 pm

Browndog posted this on another forum, so I'm hoping it's OK to re-post it here. It dispels a lot of myths.



The first thing that needs to be understood is that dogs and people are different enough that most of the info cannot cross lines. I do not profess to know what the appropriate procedures for people other than what I learned in first aid.

Dogs do not lose enough electrolytes thru exercise to make a difference, but if the dog gets truly into heat stroke the physiology changes will make them necessary. BUT oral replacement at that point is futile, they need intravenous fluids and electrolytes and lots of it.

Cooling: Evaporative cooling is the most efficient mean of cooling. However, in a muggy environment, the moisture will not evaporate so cooling does not happen well. I cool with the coldest water I can find and will use ice depending on the situation. The best way is to run water over the dog, so there is always fresh water in contact with the skin. When you immerse a dog in a tub, the water trapped in the hair coat will get warm next to the dog, and act as an insulator against the cool water and cooling stops. If you can run water over the dog and place it in front of a fan that is the best. Misting the dog with water will only help if you are in a dry environment or in front of a fan. Just getting the dog wet is not the point, you want the water to be cool itself, or to evaporate.

For MOST situations all you will need to do is get the dog in a cooler environment, ie shade, or in the cab of the truck with the air conditioning on (driving around so the truck does not overheat and the AC is more efficient). Up to a couple of years ago, I was very concerned about my dogs getting too hot in the back of my black pickup with a black cap. New white truck fixed a lot of that problem. When I had one dog I just pulled the wire crate out of the car and put it in some shade and hopefully a breeze. But having 2 dogs and running from one stake to another, that was not feasible. So I built a platform to put the wire crates on, this raises the dog up in the truck box where the air flow is better. Then I placed a 3 speed box fan in front blowing on the dogs with a foot of space to allow better airflow. I purchased a power inverter that connects to the battery and allows the 3 speed fan to run from the truck power. It has an automatic feature that prevents it from draining the battery. When I turned that fan on medium I would find that the dogs where asleep, breathing slowly and appeared very relaxed and comfortable in a matter of 20 minutes or less, even on very hot muggy days.

Alcohol: I do carry it for emergiencies. It is very effective at cooling due to the rapid evaporation. It should be used when other methods are not working. You should be on your way to the veterinarian before you get to this point. We recommend using rubbing alcohol, which is propylene alcohol, not ethyl, for those of you not aware. So do not try to drink it. Alcohol should be used on the pads and lower feet area where there is little more than skin and blood vessels over the bones. Use a little bit and let it evaporate, you can use too much as some is absorbed through the skin. There are concerns about toxicity, but you have to get the temperature down.

I purchased those cooling pads that you soak in cold water, but found that the dogs would not lay on them. I would hold them on the back of a dog that just worked to get a quick cool, but have not use them for years. I also bought a pair of battery operated fans but found them pretty useless. Spend your money on the power inverter and get a real fan.

Watching temperature: If you feel your dog is in danger of heat injury, check its temp and write it down. Keep checking the temp every 3 minutes. I recommend to get a “rectal glass thermometer. The digital ones for the drug store I have found to be very unreliable, Don't forget to shake it down completely each time, sounds silly, but when are worried about your companion, things tend to get mixed up. This is VERY IMPORTANT**once the temp STARTS to drop, STOP ALL COOLING EFFORTS. The cooling process will continue even though you have stopped. If the temp starts at 106.5, and then next time it drops to 105.5, stop cooling the dog, dry it off, and continue monitoring. You will be amazed how it continues to go down. If you do not stop until the temp is 102, the temp will drop way too low. I cannot emphasis this point enough.

When the dog is so heated that it is panting severely, only let it have a few laps of water. Water in the stomach does not cool the dog, you just need to keep the mouth wet so the panting is more effective. Do not worry about hydration until the temp has started down. A dog panting heavily taking in large amounts of water is a risk of bloat. Due to the heavy panting they will swallow air, mixed with a large amount of water they can bloat. Once the temp is going down and panting has slowed to more normal panting then allow water. The dog will rehydrate it self after temp is normal. If the dog has a serious problem and even though you have gotten the temp normal, get the dog to a vet, as it can still need IV fluids and some medication. Also, a case of heat stroke can induce a case of hemorrhagic gastroenteritis (not parvo), with a ton of very bloody diarrhea and a lot of fluid and electrolyte loss. These cases need aggressive treatment.

The best method of treatment is prevention. Learn to watch your dog, and see the changes in the size of the tongue, and how quickly it goes down. Learn your dogs response to the different environments, and be careful when you head south for an early season hunt test or trial. I have been to Nashville at the end of May, only 5 hours away, but the difference in temp and humidity did effect the dogs as they were used to more spring weather in Ohio. Try different things in training to help the dog cool and learn what works better. Another very important point=> Do not swim your hot dog to cool it then put in put in a box/tight crate. Remember, evaporation can not take place in a tight space, and the box will turn into a sauna and you will cook your dog. Carry a stake out chain, and let the dog cool and dry before putting it up. I demonstrated this lesson this spring with my 10 monthold pup. After doing a 15 minute session in yard drill on a warm 70+ degree day, she was panting pretty hard and was pretty hot. She was OK but it was time to stop. Just for the heck of it I took her temp. She was 103.6, above normal but too bad for a dog that had just finished working. In my back yard I have a 300 gallon Rubbermaid tub filled with water. I took her to it and she jumped in and out 3-4 times. She appeared totally improved, tongue was much smaller, and eyes brighter and her full spring was back into her step. So I re-took her temp and it was 104.2, so even though she looked better she was hotter. This is a perfect lesson to show not get a hot dog wet and then put them in a box. The water on her skin caused the blood vessels to constrict, decreasing blood flow to the skin. Therefore the hot blood was shunted back to the dog’s core and retianed the heat. You may have felt the same thing, after exercising but still being very warm, take a shower and get cooled off but as soon as you turn the shower off you start sweating again.

I know this is s bit long, but hopefully this is easy to understand and helps provide some useful information.
Remember: Prevention, learn your dog. It is worth the time and effort.
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