10 gauge: Heavy payload vs Speed

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Re: 10 gauge: Heavy payload vs Speed

Postby UmatillaJeff » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:16 pm

BT Justice wrote:
solway gunner wrote:
BBK wrote:Why not, cant be much more than a 1 1/2 1500 which is very common. I'm a big boy, I can take it.


who loads genuine1500fps steel 12ga 11/2oz steel loads??ive chronod the federal black cloud@1420fps listed at 1500fps which were nauseating in sx3.
id like to chrono those alleged 1600fps 10ga rounds,unless theyve some special powder /components exclusive to them then id be just a little suspicious of the listed speed.

You don't have to chrono them , it's already been done and they don't average 1600 fps, more like 1540-1560 fps. They are good loads from a small manufacturer so I won't knock them.
You can and we did get very fast velocities from 1 1/2 oz 10 ga loads, we tried an experiment which we knew was going to go overpressure but achieved velocities of 1660 fps with averages of about 1640 fps with 1 1/2 oz loads. The problem was we were also running between 12,000 and 13,000 psi with pressures, we didn't shoot many of them.
There's no free lunch


Not only is there no free lunch, in this case there is no reason to even attempt it!

There is nothing to gain as you can't make a small pellet a big pellet with velocity and the big pellets are going as fast as they need to go at 1350FPS!

They are going all the way through a Mallard at 70 yards. What would be the point? All that extra velocity is gone by the time you reach 10ga range anyway. Jeff
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Re: 10 gauge: Heavy payload vs Speed

Postby BT Justice » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:20 pm

solway gunner wrote:joe
i dont do high pressure rounds out the 10ga ,simply no need to ,the advantage is with the bore diameter and the fact that big pellets dont need massive velocitys for pass shooting lethality.
id imagine those sporting ammo loads however commendable for being independent -would be difficult to pattern,did you try them?Ive never seen a or read a field test on the rem hypersonic 10ga round,considering its pretty much a revelation in development for the gauge im dissapointed ive not read one damn field trip article by anyone which i thought i mightve done on here by now,any takers-HH.. :wink:?

I was only given one box of the SA loads to chronograph for a guy I hunt with, he was curious about it also. We patterned few through the .720 Terror, they were BBB loads and got about the same results as with other BBB loads around 78-80 % at 40 yards. I get a bit better with my loads through the .720 up to 84% with BBB steel @ 40 yards.
For ammo that you can buy for about the same price as other factory types the SA loads weren't all that bad. The guy that bought them used them on Canada's and Snow's and was pleased with the results.
The Hypersonic Remington 10 ga loads don't seem to offer much of an advantage over other high speed 10 ga loads, last I checked the 1 1/2 oz loads were 1500 fps..not much more speed if any compared to other factory loads or worth the higher price tag. joe
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Re: 10 gauge: Heavy payload vs Speed

Postby BT Justice » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:35 pm

UmatillaJeff wrote:
BT Justice wrote:
solway gunner wrote:
BBK wrote:Why not, cant be much more than a 1 1/2 1500 which is very common. I'm a big boy, I can take it.


who loads genuine1500fps steel 12ga 11/2oz steel loads??ive chronod the federal black cloud@1420fps listed at 1500fps which were nauseating in sx3.
id like to chrono those alleged 1600fps 10ga rounds,unless theyve some special powder /components exclusive to them then id be just a little suspicious of the listed speed.

You don't have to chrono them , it's already been done and they don't average 1600 fps, more like 1540-1560 fps. They are good loads from a small manufacturer so I won't knock them.
You can and we did get very fast velocities from 1 1/2 oz 10 ga loads, we tried an experiment which we knew was going to go overpressure but achieved velocities of 1660 fps with averages of about 1640 fps with 1 1/2 oz loads. The problem was we were also running between 12,000 and 13,000 psi with pressures, we didn't shoot many of them.
There's no free lunch


Not only is there no free lunch, in this case there is no reason to even attempt it!

There is nothing to gain as you can't make a small pellet a big pellet with velocity and the big pellets are going as fast as they need to go at 1350FPS!

They are going all the way through a Mallard at 70 yards. What would be the point? All that extra velocity is gone by the time you reach 10ga range anyway. Jeff

I never advocated using that fast a load, as I stated it was an experiment to see what we could actually get from a 10 ga at 12 ga 3/12" pressures, which in a way is not smart to start with but reloaders are also experiments just like rifle wildcatters.
Unless someone has pressure test equipment like I do ,I wouldn't even recommend trying it.
Quite honestly, it would be interesting to see what the performance difference would be if someone would actually make a 10 ga gun to run at 12 ga 3/12" pressures... I can't honestly say what it would be as no one has ever done or tried it to my knowledge.
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Re: 10 gauge: Heavy payload vs Speed

Postby UmatillaJeff » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:25 pm

Again... What would be the point? Even if you could get the pressures to go that high? What would you gain? You already have max penetration with shells going far slower. Unless you can find a way to shoot two ounces of steel so you could gain more big pellets..
What would you gain? A few inches less lead?

You aren't going to make somebody into a wing shot by shortening the lead a few inches at yardage.

Guys don't miss by inches. They miss by feet. Jeff
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Re: 10 gauge: Heavy payload vs Speed

Postby BT Justice » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:37 am

UmatillaJeff wrote:Again... What would be the point? Even if you could get the pressures to go that high? What would you gain? You already have max penetration with shells going far slower. Unless you can find a way to shoot two ounces of steel so you could gain more big pellets..
What would you gain? A few inches less lead?

You aren't going to make somebody into a wing shot by shortening the lead a few inches at yardage.

Guys don't miss by inches. They miss by feet. Jeff

I guess the same thinking could have been asked to Barret and McMillan when they were developing rifles capable of 2000 yard shots...what's the point as no one could hit anything at that range...obviously that's been disproven also.
Best answer would be...as Americans..Because We can
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Re: 10 gauge: Heavy payload vs Speed

Postby solway gunner » Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:28 pm

joe
your no doubt aware that both 12ga and 10ga 3.5" guns share the same 15k proofing level in the UK,not long ago there were no restriction on momentum value restriction with the 10ga,but now there is, but to be frank(not lopez :rolleyes: ),it doesnt mean anything in the land of reality as a lot of US listed loads could probably actualy indeed a higher PSI than listed ,nothing detrimental of course but all the same i suspect they are.
as im free to blow my gun up at my own discretion i got a 1608fps av 11/2oz load tested which clocked at just on 15k psi when i first went back onto 10ga from 3.5" 12ga,however ,the perrenial problem of poor pattern density with exteme pressures which can plague heavy steel loadings in 12ga recurred in any of my 11/2oz loading in 10ga rounds much passed around the 1520fps mark(i now hover between 1450-1500fps in most 10ga loads excluding the odd novelty loads like DDCs express 11/4oz ).,however ,i can see where your coming from but its pretty much a waste of valuable components for my liking!
have you tried getting barrel work done instead-removing forcing cones etc for extra performance?
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Re: 10 gauge: Heavy payload vs Speed

Postby BBK » Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:58 pm

14,000 for 3.5 12ga here, 11,000 for 10ga. just to not confuse any lurkers or newbies interested in reloading.
Last edited by BBK on Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 10 gauge: Heavy payload vs Speed

Postby solway gunner » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:09 pm

not in the fecking uk it isnt ,its 15228psi to be exact..which i was referring to..with joe...youve more chirp than a flushed blackbird
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Re: 10 gauge: Heavy payload vs Speed

Postby UmatillaJeff » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:28 pm

Well... As an American, I pride myself on the judicious use of common sense. I guess this is why I don't pattern 10ga shells at 40 yards. Jeff
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Re: 10 gauge: Heavy payload vs Speed

Postby Yuchi1 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:43 pm

IMO, one of you best choices in factory ammo:

http://www.rogerssportinggoods.com/fede ... p-351.html

During the 1992-93 season, I shot a double on passing (large race) canada's (~55+ yards) using the Remington Nitro Magnum (1260FPS) in BBB shot size. The first bird had ~22 pellet strikes to the breast/neck area. It had to be hand dispatched. The second one sailed ~75 yards and crash landed in an adjacent soybean field. One of the guys with me ran it down and hand dispatched it as well. It had 17 pellet strikes in the neck/breast/wing area(s). There were also several other such incidents encountered with using the "slow crap" over the course of several seasons during that time period.

BTW, someone poo poo'd using smaller pellets in the mighty 10 by saying you'd run out of pattern density before pellet energy.

Mebbe so, however, with the FULL tube aboard and #2's stoked in battery, mallards have fallen out to 65+ yards. Having personally witnessed the vastly superior patterns a 10 gauge throws (compared to the sub-gauge 12), both at the pattern board as well as in the real world (read; field), it is no leap of logic to ascertain that if you are man enough to handle her, the mighty 10 has no equal when it comes to killing birds into the next zip code.
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Re: 10 gauge: Heavy payload vs Speed

Postby BT Justice » Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:32 am

solway gunner wrote:joe
your no doubt aware that both 12ga and 10ga 3.5" guns share the same 15k proofing level in the UK,not long ago there were no restriction on momentum value restriction with the 10ga,but now there is, but to be frank(not lopez :rolleyes: ),it doesnt mean anything in the land of reality as a lot of US listed loads could probably actualy indeed a higher PSI than listed ,nothing detrimental of course but all the same i suspect they are.
as im free to blow my gun up at my own discretion i got a 1608fps av 11/2oz load tested which clocked at just on 15k psi when i first went back onto 10ga from 3.5" 12ga,however ,the perrenial problem of poor pattern density with exteme pressures which can plague heavy steel loadings in 12ga recurred in any of my 11/2oz loading in 10ga rounds much passed around the 1520fps mark(i now hover between 1450-1500fps in most 10ga loads excluding the odd novelty loads like DDCs express 11/4oz ).,however ,i can see where your coming from but its pretty much a waste of valuable components for my liking!
have you tried getting barrel work done instead-removing forcing cones etc for extra performance?

Oh yeah I know what they are pressure tested to(but thanks), the problem is more one of breaking parts, I've already had to replace the recoil spring follower twice in my Gold 10, they are plastic and they do crack or break. I'm even more cautious with my SP-10 as parts are becoming less available/ non existent from Remington.
Most of my loads I try to get at no more than 11,500 psi, the experiments are more for trying different primer/ wad/ payload combinations to get a baseline on what happens. When I state something like the MM or TPS wads run 15-20% higher pressures with the same load combination as the RSI wads it's because we tried it and that was the results we got..not guess work.
Basically I do a lot of it for the simple fact there is very little reloading information out there for the 10 ga, so we all have to improvise at times.
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Re: 10 gauge: Heavy payload vs Speed

Postby TexasGeese » Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:09 pm

I've had the slide link break in my Mag 10 using the sporting ammo loads. Not sure if it was the loads themselves, or the slide link since they are known to be brittle in some mag 10's.
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Re: 10 gauge: Heavy payload vs Speed

Postby h2ofowlr » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:19 pm

goose_gunner wrote:for starters I shoot a gold 10 with a pm in it and have shot the 1 3/4oz of rem 2s they are great on ducks VARY VARY lacking on geese at long range I just started loading for the 10ga this year but my best load I have found in the 10ga with a pm choke is the estate 1 5/8oz of bbb don't even mess with ts or fs if you can help it just pattern and make up your own mind


Remington Hypersonic has them in the 10 at 1,600. I want to try them, but at $35 a box I haven't jumped on it yet. I will be trying some hevi-metal 10 at 1,500 fps.
I was looking through my ammo and I found 2 cases of Federal F shot. Is it still legal to shoot them in steel? Any size restrictions?
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Re: 10 gauge: Heavy payload vs Speed

Postby kcidkcus » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:57 pm

h2ofowlr wrote:
goose_gunner wrote:for starters I shoot a gold 10 with a pm in it and have shot the 1 3/4oz of rem 2s they are great on ducks VARY VARY lacking on geese at long range I just started loading for the 10ga this year but my best load I have found in the 10ga with a pm choke is the estate 1 5/8oz of bbb don't even mess with ts or fs if you can help it just pattern and make up your own mind


Remington Hypersonic has them in the 10 at 1,600. I want to try them, but at $35 a box I haven't jumped on it yet. I will be trying some hevi-metal 10 at 1,500 fps.
I was looking through my ammo and I found 2 cases of Federal F shot. Is it still legal to shoot them in steel? Any size restrictions?

No size restriction in Washington, some states do have size restrictions, but most states don't as long as its non tox you are good to go, can't wait for hevi shot to come out with a buck shot, put the whoop @ss on honkers LOL
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Re: 10 gauge: Heavy payload vs Speed

Postby baltz526 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:28 am

Too bad your not closer. I have several boxes of factory 10ga collecting dust. Just looked at sportsman warehouse for prices. The 10ga was running $31-$33 per 25 in steel. My reloads cost about $10.50. I'll keep shooting the reloads. I would trade the shells for a big pile of Remington or good federal hulls. PS: With your BBB factory shells, Screw in the Invector MOD steel. Mid 80% is what I got with the 1 5/8oz federal shells.
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Re: 10 gauge: Heavy payload vs Speed

Postby goose_gunner » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:23 pm

h2ofowlr wrote:
goose_gunner wrote:for starters I shoot a gold 10 with a pm in it and have shot the 1 3/4oz of rem 2s they are great on ducks VARY VARY lacking on geese at long range I just started loading for the 10ga this year but my best load I have found in the 10ga with a pm choke is the estate 1 5/8oz of bbb don't even mess with ts or fs if you can help it just pattern and make up your own mind


Remington Hypersonic has them in the 10 at 1,600. I want to try them, but at $35 a box I haven't jumped on it yet. I will be trying some hevi-metal 10 at 1,500 fps.
I was looking through my ammo and I found 2 cases of Federal F shot. Is it still legal to shoot them in steel? Any size restrictions?


I think the 10ga rem load is only 1500 with an 11/2 and in the 12 ga I have played with it alittle and it patterns like dog butt and is VARY loud also recoil is the worst I have ever felt even more than 21/2oz of buck shot in the 10ga with a max load so if it was me I would not have high hopes for it also here in Montana you can shoot any size you want but in some states that may not be the case
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Re: 10 gauge: Heavy payload vs Speed

Postby 10gaOkie » Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:02 am

Thank goodness I reload 10ga and dont have to put up with what's available in factory 10ga fodder.

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Re: 10 gauge: Heavy payload vs Speed

Postby kcidkcus » Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:41 am

10gaOkie wrote:Thank goodness I reload 10ga and dont have to put up with what's available in factory 10ga fodder.

Chris

You ever think about possibly selling your reloads? I'd be really interested
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Re: 10 gauge: Heavy payload vs Speed

Postby 10gaOkie » Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:51 am

No. Due to liability and no insurance, there is no way. Not to mention I have barely have enough time to reload for myself and son. I shoot factory as a suppliment to my reloads as well. I have bought up a couple cases of 10ga Estate factory shells.
If you want to buy reloads, buy them from Sporting Ammo.

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Re: 10 gauge: Heavy payload vs Speed

Postby kcidkcus » Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:05 pm

10gaOkie wrote:No. Due to liability and no insurance, there is no way. Not to mention I have barely have enough time to reload for myself and son. I shoot factory as a suppliment to my reloads as well. I have bought up a couple cases of 10ga Estate factory shells.
If you want to buy reloads, buy them from Sporting Ammo.

Chris

Gotcha I totally understand, I think I might get into reloading for the ten, how much could a guy do it for on the cheap to get set up and started?
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