No luck with BlackCloud or HeviShot, Any Tips??

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No luck with BlackCloud or HeviShot, Any Tips??

Postby NyDuckMan » Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:38 pm

Last year I used Kent Fasteel 2 3/4" #4 in my 1100 and dropped birds pretty easy, but I've since bought an 887 nitromag 28" barrel so i dont ruin my 1100 in the swamp, and needless to say, i did early goose with BB Winchest Drylok and a carlson full steel choke and had great results, well i went duck hunting yesterday and i figured i'd try BlackCloud #3 special edition and Hevi Metal #4 and i used the carlson full at first, and since both rounds are under 1500fps, they should've worked, but i had terrible luck, even when i dropped to an improved cylinder. It just seemed like the spreads were too scattered, and my shots were at 20 - 25 yards.

Anyone have similar experiences?? or have an 887 and found an ammo that's the bees knees for it??
**2013 - 2014**
3 - Canada Goose
2 - Mallards
2 - Teal (green winged)
2 - Woodies
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Re: No luck with BlackCloud or HeviShot, Any Tips??

Postby BBK » Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:58 pm

NyDuckMan wrote:Last year I used Kent Fasteel 2 3/4" #4 in my 1100 and dropped birds pretty easy, but I've since bought an 887 nitromag 28" barrel so i dont ruin my 1100 in the swamp, and needless to say, i did early goose with BB Winchest Drylok and a carlson full steel choke and had great results, well i went duck hunting yesterday and i figured i'd try BlackCloud #3 special edition and Hevi Metal #4 and i used the carlson full at first, and since both rounds are under 1500fps, they should've worked, but i had terrible luck, even when i dropped to an improved cylinder. It just seemed like the spreads were too scattered, and my shots were at 20 - 25 yards.

Anyone have similar experiences?? or have an 887 and found an ammo that's the bees knees for it??


Makes no sense. Even with a full choke (too tight for hevi-shot and BC), the patterns still should have been ridiculously tight at 20 yards. BC patterns nice at 40 but anything less than 30 is swiss cheese. Full choke will actually over-choke BC and open it up a bit.. but I don't think that was your problem. I think your problem was you were shooting a pattern the size of a dinner plate.
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Re: No luck with BlackCloud or HeviShot, Any Tips??

Postby NyDuckMan » Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:28 pm

Yeah, I usually pattern my steel before i use it, but the rod and gun that I went to, only had a metal plate that you could shoot at a max of 15 yards, which to me was bad news bears. But I shoot a lot of Sporting clays and trap, so I'm used to shooting at all sorts of presentations. The carlson choke I have says full, but it's a really an Improved Modified. I swapped to my IC steel choke and still had some issues. Note my chokes are plain jane steel chokes, no special wad removing tech or porting, so they should toss the BC good. IDK Dont get me wrong, the passing shots i missed were due to either me not following through or lifting my cheek off the comb.
But there were a lot of close shots where birds should've fell.

Think I should switch to #2?? I took down a mallard with Winchest #1 drylok. but that was a random shell that my buddy tossed me because I drop a shell in the mud. So i wasn't sure if it was a good shot on my part, the size of the pellet, or both.
**2013 - 2014**
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2 - Mallards
2 - Teal (green winged)
2 - Woodies
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Re: No luck with BlackCloud or HeviShot, Any Tips??

Postby BBK » Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:38 pm

Sounds like you are shooting over decoys. Anything from #F to #5 will kill a mallard at 30 yards. If you don't shoot geese as well, I would suggest you try #4 and stick to less than 40yds. Any and every shell on the market in #4 steel will kill a mallard at less than 40 yards, just have to find one that patterns well.

Even if the shell was throwing a terrible pattern, you should have at least HIT the ducks. Sounds like an off-day, been there several times. Go shoot some clays tomorrow with that choke to boost some confidence.
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Re: No luck with BlackCloud or HeviShot, Any Tips??

Postby NyDuckMan » Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:57 pm

Thanks BBK.
Thats some sound advice, I'm going to break some clay for sure tomorrow.
Regardless, for an off day I still bagged 2 teal, and 2 mallard, but I wasted more shells than id care to admit, heh.
Where abouts do you hunt, and what do you hunt?
I'm pretty much canada geese, Mallards and woodies. There are Black ducks and Hoodies in my area, but I never see them when I'm actually hunting. The only reason I got these teal was because I was in Maine, in Upstate NY where I hunt I've yet to see a teal. I'm also a swamp hunter, I'm not experienced at all with field or river hunting.
**2013 - 2014**
3 - Canada Goose
2 - Mallards
2 - Teal (green winged)
2 - Woodies
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Re: No luck with BlackCloud or HeviShot, Any Tips??

Postby BBK » Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:21 pm

I hunt some small rivers and marshes in Iowa, also the Miss river occasionally. Targeting mallards and geese, but will take whatever I can get! Early season we shoot mostly woodies and teal. Had a very bad early season this year, lack of water gave us a lack of birds! Only got 16 birds, 6 woodies, 7 teal, and 3 doves. Waiting patiently for our regular season to open up in 2 weeks. Our goose season (we don't get an early season) started yesterday (sat), didnt make it out but planning to go today (sunday). Speaking of that, I should try and get an hour or two of sleep and stop posting on DHC!

(by the way, I'll have black cloud in the gun today shooting a carlsons regular modified waterfowl choke)
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Re: No luck with BlackCloud or HeviShot, Any Tips??

Postby rainingmallards » Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:33 am

I agree with BBK that it didn't make sense when I first read the post. Why not try a
mod choke with the Hevimetal and see if that helps....
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Re: No luck with BlackCloud or HeviShot, Any Tips??

Postby 10gaOkie » Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:03 am

If I were limited to shooting factory ammo, I would be shooting nothing but Kent Fasteel. That is, if I could get it.

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Re: No luck with BlackCloud or HeviShot, Any Tips??

Postby NyDuckMan » Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:46 am

The Carlson Full w/ steel BB worked so great for me during early goose I assumed it would shoot similar with the lower steel shot, but I was way wrong. Perhaps it is shooting it way tighter that I think, but idk.

I pulled out my reg Carlson Mod choke, and it's not much more open than my Carlson Steel Full, but whatever, I'll figure it out.

Kent ammo is all over our sporting goods racks, and its the cheapest Steel too at $14 a box.
**2013 - 2014**
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2 - Mallards
2 - Teal (green winged)
2 - Woodies
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Re: No luck with BlackCloud or HeviShot, Any Tips??

Postby kcidkcus » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:39 pm

It's an 887.... I had one shot great for a couple years and then it started shooting 1.5 ft low and 1ft to the right at 30 yards and got worse as you went out. Might wanna hit the pattern board and see what's goin on. It was sent back and forth to the factory 3 times for multiple reasons. Best thing I ever did was bring it to the pawn shop.
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Re: No luck with BlackCloud or HeviShot, Any Tips??

Postby SPatrick » Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:19 am

I would put some patterns on paper to figure out what you got going on there. Also I would suggest not using a full choke, but using and IMP or MOD. Hope this helps out.
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Re: No luck with BlackCloud or HeviShot, Any Tips??

Postby NyDuckMan » Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:34 pm

Yeah, as of current my patterning options are slim to none, if you read my 2nd reply i explain why i never got to patterning it.
It's just weird that I had no issues using the Steel Full choke with BB Drylok for early goose, but once i ran the #3 and 4 through it it just didnt seem to work. Anyways, I've dropped down to my Imp Cylinder steel choke, we'll see how this Satrudays local opener goes.
I'm only going to shoot at decoying birds and not passing till I figure out what the deal is.
I shot sporting clays just yesterday, and did well, so I dont know maybe the excitement of all the ducks flying on Friday got the better of me.
Regardless, thanks for all the solid feedback folks, not one bit of bad information or tips here.
**2013 - 2014**
3 - Canada Goose
2 - Mallards
2 - Teal (green winged)
2 - Woodies
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Re: No luck with BlackCloud or HeviShot, Any Tips??

Postby Sagebrush » Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:37 am

For 25 yards you should have a I/C or skeet choke in for best patterns.

Steel patterns tighter than lead but has a longer string.
You can also cut your normal lead shot lead.........in half when using steel at those close yardages.
It takes a little to accept the new way of shooting but it will sink in after a few sessions.


Good shooting.
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Re: No luck with BlackCloud or HeviShot, Any Tips??

Postby Rob MacK » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:00 am

NyDuckMan wrote:Yeah, as of current my patterning options are slim to none, if you read my 2nd reply i explain why i never got to patterning it.
It's just weird that I had no issues using the Steel Full choke with BB Drylok for early goose, but once i ran the #3 and 4 through it it just didnt seem to work. Anyways, I've dropped down to my Imp Cylinder steel choke, we'll see how this Satrudays local opener goes.
I'm only going to shoot at decoying birds and not passing till I figure out what the deal is.
I shot sporting clays just yesterday, and did well, so I dont know maybe the excitement of all the ducks flying on Friday got the better of me.
Regardless, thanks for all the solid feedback folks, not one bit of bad information or tips here.



Chokes with steel are weird no question. It can will and does happen that a choke will pattern large shot well but not the smaller stuff. Its happened to me a few times. I showed it to a friend of mine with his setup....you could have knocked him over with a feather from disbelief...welcome to the wonderful world of shotgunning.. :thumbsup:

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