Wealth inequality in the USA.

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Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby slowshooter » Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:09 am



And there it is. Thank you Ronald Reagan.
All this for a bowl of borscht.
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby Indaswamp » Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:15 am

Put 12 people in a room, give $10 to each of them and shut the door. come back and one of them will have most of the money.
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby assateague » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:33 am

It really bothers liberals that there are dumb, lazy people. No matter how hard they try, they just can't make everyone equally miserable :lol3:
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby boney fingers » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:29 am

Slow, serious question; if two people have worked at the same job making the same pay for decades (all else being equal) is it possible for one to be more wealthy than the other?
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby tucker301 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:34 am

Indaswamp wrote:Put 12 people in a room, give $10 to each of them and shut the door. come back and one of them will have most of the money.


I have been in that room, and she always wins.

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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby Andy W » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:41 am

Those evil one percenters should be shot and their wealth given to Acorn!! :mad:
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby ohioboy » Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:21 am

Indaswamp wrote:Put 12 people in a room, give $10 to each of them and shut the door. come back and one of them will have most of the money.


Give credit to John for that one.....

You did post the video. :smile:
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:32 am

boney fingers wrote:Slow, serious question; if two people have worked at the same job making the same pay for decades (all else being equal) is it possible for one to be more wealthy than the other?

They never correct for age.

During the first hopefully 20% of my adult life, I had almost no wealth.

During the second 20% of my adult life, I had a little, but not a lot, but it started to grow significantly during this time.

Now early in what I hope is third 20% of my adult life, I have some wealth. A significant fraction of what I hope and expect to be the max, but not where I need to be. By the end, my goal is that I need not earn another penny for the remaining 40% of my life.

In my fourth 20% of my adult life, who knows. If I do choose to keep working, I will either accumulate a lot of wealth or I will be spending a crap load of money to prevent that from happening.

In my final 20% of my adult life, the goal is simple. Spend it all. Sure some will be spent after I am gone to keep a cushion, but by the end, my wealth will be greatly depleted. I can't take it with me, so it will be spent some how.

I've run actual estimates and my wealth distribution matches almost perfectly the actual wealth distribution. All that wealth distribution shows is that young people have nothing compared to what they will have when they get old. :eek: :eek: :eek: And in the middle, the build it slow at first because they got bills for the kids, houses, etc. Who knew? Clearly not a Harvard economist.

If this Harvard economist was competent, he would have asked, how do you think the wealth should be distributed among the youngest 20%, the next youngest 20%, the middle 20%, the next oldest 20% and the oldest 20%. And I wonder how the results would differ? :huh:

How much wealth should a college kid in their 20's have relative to a person just entering retirement? :huh:
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby boney fingers » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:04 am

SpinnerMan wrote:
boney fingers wrote:Slow, serious question; if two people have worked at the same job making the same pay for decades (all else being equal) is it possible for one to be more wealthy than the other?

They never correct for age.

During the first hopefully 20% of my adult life, I had almost no wealth.

During the second 20% of my adult life, I had a little, but not a lot, but it started to grow significantly during this time.

Now early in what I hope is third 20% of my adult life, I have some wealth. A significant fraction of what I hope and expect to be the max, but not where I need to be. By the end, my goal is that I need not earn another penny for the remaining 40% of my life.

In my fourth 20% of my adult life, who knows. If I do choose to keep working, I will either accumulate a lot of wealth or I will be spending a crap load of money to prevent that from happening.

In my final 20% of my adult life, the goal is simple. Spend it all. Sure some will be spent after I am gone to keep a cushion, but by the end, my wealth will be greatly depleted. I can't take it with me, so it will be spent some how.

I've run actual estimates and my wealth distribution matches almost perfectly the actual wealth distribution. All that wealth distribution shows is that young people have nothing compared to what they will have when they get old. :eek: :eek: :eek: And in the middle, the build it slow at first because they got bills for the kids, houses, etc. Who knew? Clearly not a Harvard economist.

If this Harvard economist was competent, he would have asked, how do you think the wealth should be distributed among the youngest 20%, the next youngest 20%, the middle 20%, the next oldest 20% and the oldest 20%. And I wonder how the results would differ? :huh:

How much wealth should a college kid in their 20's have relative to a person just entering retirement? :huh:



Im also guessing they arnt adjusting for taxation; the top ten see massive amounts of money leave due to taxes where the lower see an influx of income from taxes. Are they counting school lunch, income from illegal activity, food stamps, Medicaid, Obama phones, ect... I believe Im doing well, but yet many poor folks seem to be able to afford frivolous things that I don't. I grew up working in a sawmill (not a high paying job but not min wage either) and watched people that had similar backgrounds live completely different lifestyles on the same income. Payday was on Thursday and by Saturday night some of the guys were flat broke while others managed that money and became homeowners and some even became business owners. Track the lives of past lotto winners and retired pro athletes and it becomes apparent that not all are meant to be wealthy. All that being said, I will concede that government has used its power to make friends rich at the expense of the middle class; fixing that requires confiscation of power not confiscation of wealth.
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:33 am

Wealth is NOT income. They are not synonyms.

You can have sky high income and no wealth if you spend it faster than you make it.

Conversely, a lot of people that have made modest incomes accumulate impressive amounts of wealth by saving and smart investing.

boney fingers wrote:Track the lives of past lotto winners and retired pro athletes and it becomes apparent that not all are meant to be wealthy.

Nearly all retired pro athletes are very wealthy. They have great wealth in their pensions even if they blow every penny they earned while they played.

Lotto winners are on average the people that spend the most money buying lottery tickets. Winning is highly correlated with being financially irresponsible.

Everybody CAN be wealthy. They must be financially responsible. Financial irresponsibility can burn through vast amounts of wealth. It doesn't mean they weren't "meant" to be wealthy. I'm not sure what that means. It does show that giving the financially irresponsible a huge pile of cash does not make them financially responsible and why would it?

This is a huge failure of our education system. Financial responsibility should be drilled in our head from K-12. Of course, our K-12 education is dominated by people that support the most financially irresponsible governments and politicians, so what the hell do they know about it?

Are some people meant to be financially irresponsible? No. Will some be? Of course.

boney fingers wrote:All that being said, I will concede that government has used its power to make friends rich at the expense of the middle class; fixing that requires confiscation of power not confiscation of wealth.
But it still doesn't explain the wealth distribution. In a nation of 310+ million, the distribution is still dominated by the 307 million (the 99%) and not the 3 million (1%). Most everybody, even the financially irresponsible, have many times more wealth at 65 than they did at 25.

If the average 65 year old did not have many times more wealth than the average 25 year old, what the hell was the point of working over that 40 years? Might as well stayed at home and watched TV and vote Democrat.
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby boney fingers » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:15 am

SpinnerMan wrote:Wealth is NOT income. They are not synonyms.

You can have sky high income and no wealth if you spend it faster than you make it.

Conversely, a lot of people that have made modest incomes accumulate impressive amounts of wealth by saving and smart investing.

boney fingers wrote:Track the lives of past lotto winners and retired pro athletes and it becomes apparent that not all are meant to be wealthy.

Nearly all retired pro athletes are very wealthy. They have great wealth in their pensions even if they blow every penny they earned while they played.

Lotto winners are on average the people that spend the most money buying lottery tickets. Winning is highly correlated with being financially irresponsible.

Everybody CAN be wealthy. They must be financially responsible. Financial irresponsibility can burn through vast amounts of wealth. It doesn't mean they weren't "meant" to be wealthy. I'm not sure what that means. It does show that giving the financially irresponsible a huge pile of cash does not make them financially responsible and why would it?

This is a huge failure of our education system. Financial responsibility should be drilled in our head from K-12. Of course, our K-12 education is dominated by people that support the most financially irresponsible governments and politicians, so what the hell do they know about it?

Are some people meant to be financially irresponsible? No. Will some be? Of course.

boney fingers wrote:All that being said, I will concede that government has used its power to make friends rich at the expense of the middle class; fixing that requires confiscation of power not confiscation of wealth.
But it still doesn't explain the wealth distribution. In a nation of 310+ million, the distribution is still dominated by the 307 million (the 99%) and not the 3 million (1%). Most everybody, even the financially irresponsible, have many times more wealth at 65 than they did at 25.

If the average 65 year old did not have many times more wealth than the average 25 year old, what the hell was the point of working over that 40 years? Might as well stayed at home and watched TV and vote Democrat.



The narrator talks about income in the video so im not sure exactly what they measured
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:25 am

boney fingers wrote:The narrator talks about income in the video so im not sure exactly what they measured
More proof that he is a moron. I didn't suffer through all of it because it was clearly based on flawed premise and ignorance. This just confirms that.

However, the same applies to income. My average income, reportable taxable income (another problem with these numbers), from age 18 to 32 was somewhere in the neighborhood of $10k/yr. I had a great life and wanted for nothing during that time. I lived all over the country and a summer in Paris. I traveled frequently, especially to Florida. But at some point you have to grow up and get a job and stick with it. I make just a tad bit more these days like most college grads do after they finish school and get a job.
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby swampbilly 1980 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:07 am

SpinnerMan wrote: But at some point you have to grow up and get a job and stick with it. I make just a tad bit more these days like most college grads do after they finish school and get a job.

Well 'Spinner,..you know that by focusing in on the future, getting priorities straight,..and being successful makes it totally unfair, and makes you---a jerk for doing it :wink:

It's just not fair to others who have other priorities in life. (Like wanting something for nothing)
They should be happy with their "Certificate of Participation" and move on,.. I mean,.. what's the beef? :huh:
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby ScaupHunter » Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:36 am

Some people will never grasp the concept of earning their way in life. They simply believe they deserve to have the same thing as everyone else because they are breathing. You can't fix them, and you can't get rid of them. They are a part of every society. What you can do is stop funding them and their illegitimate children. In essence you simply cut off the tap and stop paying them to be deadbeats. They can then choose to work or starve. Do it long enough and they eventually learn to work for their food, or die off.

Either way society is far better off.
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby SpinnerMan » Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:53 am

But the numbers they show do NOT support the have's and the have not's.

It is the young and the not young.

If you make $50k/yr on average for your working lifetime, you have to have on the order of $1M in revenue generating assets before you can retire. It doesn't matter whether that is wealth held in trust by your pension fund or in your business or in your IRA or rental properties or whatever. You have to be a millionaire to retire and live a middle class life.

What do most of these people start life out with? $0, zip, zilch, nada. They very often have a negative net worth. What do they have when they are 30, 40, 50, 60, ...

If they have children, it is not unusual for a financially responsible middle income family to have very little net worth even at 40. The nest empties, the bills fall, the income rises, the mortgage is paid down, and the wealth grows very substantially.

Their is huge wealth inequality over the average person's life. Is this a bad thing? Should you have the same wealth on the day you retire as on the first day on the job? Or should there be a huge inequality in wealth between the guy that is retiring and the new guy starting at the bottom?

This wealth gap crap is pure ignorance and a total lack of common sense.

Anybody that thinks there should not be a huge wealth gap between the new kid hired relative to the old guy that retired freeing the top wrung for everybody to move up one and freeing up the bottom wrung for the new kid to get his start is ____________ I can't even think of a word to describe how out of their mind ignorant and clueless they are.

They are probably the same people that think it is not fair that old people die more frequently than young people. That old people have higher medical bills than young people. And all the other "gaps" between young and old.
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby Indaswamp » Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:20 pm

ohioboy wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:Put 12 people in a room, give $10 to each of them and shut the door. come back and one of them will have most of the money.


Give credit to John for that one.....

You did post the video. :smile:

Yrp-that one is from John Wayne....
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby vincentpa » Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:20 pm

tucker301 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:Put 12 people in a room, give $10 to each of them and shut the door. come back and one of them will have most of the money.


I have been in that room, and she always wins.

Image


I'm with you on that one.


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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby Gabagool » Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:23 pm

tucker301 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:Put 12 people in a room, give $10 to each of them and shut the door. come back and one of them will have most of the money.


I have been in that room, and she always wins.

Image


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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby cartervj » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:00 pm

vincentpa wrote:
tucker301 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:Put 12 people in a room, give $10 to each of them and shut the door. come back and one of them will have most of the money.


I have been in that room, and she always wins.

Image


I'm with you on that one.


Sent from my iPhone 5, which sucks my cojones. Don't buy one.



Ya'll can have her, I feel as though I need a shot for some strange disease by just looking at her pic :biggrin:
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby swampbilly 1980 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:29 am

Obamacare should cover that Carter :wink: :lol3:
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby ScaupHunter » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:59 am

After you pay your $14,000 deductible that is.
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:24 pm

ScaupHunter wrote:After you pay your $14,000 deductible that is.

Yes, but that's because those damned Republicans. Give Obama free reign and the out of pocket cost would be $0 premium with $0 deductible with $0 copay with $0 limit and zero that is not covered.

That is until our country had $0 left.
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby ScaupHunter » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:35 pm

I hate those guys! You know the ones that actually understand that you have to pay the bills! Those guys suck!
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby Glimmerjim » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:37 pm

It's a shame that it always has to come to this point, but in a capitalistic society this is just an inevitable swing of the pendulum. By it's very nature, combined with the contemporary methods of politics, unbridled capitalism will always result in oligarchic, plutocratic societies. As this inevitable condition evolves into a caste system, dissatisfaction of the majority increases, and the majority recognizes that steps must be taken to reduce this trend. What is the tried and true remedy for inoperable disproportionate wealth distribition other than a pretense of taxation remedies?
Unions.
This trend is setting the biggest stage for the comeback of union representation that has ever been seen. The harbingers are evident, and the result is inevitable. In less than a decade, union membership will once again rise to a majority of the working force. It won't completely alleviate the ludicrous distribution of, not wealth, but comfortable, respectable living conditions
to the majority of the population. But it will reinstill that which makes a capitalistic society thrive, the potential for upward mobility.
It'll take a little while, but I am comfortable knowing that the situation is reversing itself and that the AVERAGE American will possibly feel once again that they live in the land of opportunity and that dedication, hard-work, and education can reap rewards.
Just watch Union Membership percentages over the next twenty years. It should be a real kick for you.
And it will be really be a kick for the health of the United States.
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Re: Wealth inequality in the USA.

Postby cartervj » Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:23 pm

You've confused capitalism for something we actually have, it's called cronyism, picking winners and losers. True capitalism is not what we have had in many years in this country. That's the part Liberals can't comprehend for some reason.

Name one country where socialism has actually worked versus how many failed.

Like I've been saying about Obama's record, he is Bush on steroids, yet it's Bush's fault. :hi:
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