High Velocity Blind Side #1s?

Interact with others on shot gun shells, reloading, ballistics, chokes, or anything that has to do with your shooting.

Moderators: donell67, pennsyltucky, Ohio Wildfowler, NV Guide

High Velocity Blind Side #1s?

Postby K Williams » Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:39 am

I'm considering buying some 3" Winchester Blind Side 1 1/8oz #1. Will the high velocity...1675fps...cause excessive wear and tear in my Mossberg 500?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk
NRA Life Member, Delta Waterfowl member, Ducks Unlimited member
K Williams
hunter
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:04 am
Location: Long Island, NY


Re: High Velocity Blind Side #1s?

Postby Frank Lopez » Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:18 am

The only excessive wear you'll experience in on your wallet! :lol3:

Blind Side consists of cube shot in a special wad. Square, or cube shot was developed well over a hundred years ago on the continent of Europe to create very open patterns at close range to deal wit the tight covers and hedge rows. It was known as "dispersante" which means exactly what it sounds like. What Winchester did was to kind of tame this characteristic a bit by using a wad that stayed with the shot charge as much as ten yards down range. Effectively, they moved the pattern's useful range from about 25 yards to about 35 yards. By 40 yards pattern density is about gone, so the effectiveness of the load severely drops off. As far as the high velocity is concerned, consider this. Any small advantage to high velocity is the small increase in effective range. But, since the cube shot will slow down much faster than round shot, what's the point?

Buy some Federal blue box loads in 1 1/4 oz #2s at 1400fps. If you're feeling extravagant, buy Remington Nitro steel or Winchester Drylok in the same loading. Pattern those in your gun. If you use a modified choke, you'll have to hold a little finer on the really tight shots over decoys, but you should have plenty of pattern (and penetration) out to 50 yards. If you use your IC choke, you should be good to 40 or 45 yards.

Frank
I feel slightly sorry for a man who has never patterned his gun, who has no idea how far his chosen load will retain killing penetration. But I'm extremely sorry for the ducks he shoots at beyond the killing range of his gun and load - Bob Brister
User avatar
Frank Lopez
hunter
 
Posts: 2996
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:34 pm
Location: Long Island New York

Re: High Velocity Blind Side #1s?

Postby K Williams » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:08 am

Thanks for that info. :thumbsup:
NRA Life Member, Delta Waterfowl member, Ducks Unlimited member
K Williams
hunter
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:04 am
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: High Velocity Blind Side #1s?

Postby Yuchi1 » Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:20 pm

What Frank said. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Sent from my Sumerian tablets

Does the number of bands claimed simply mean you have an Ebay account?

FSH Pro Staffer

High Potentate, NSSB (no spinning shotcup brotherhood)
Yuchi1
hunter
 
Posts: 1627
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: Creek Nation of Oklahoma

Re: High Velocity Blind Side #1s?

Postby dsm16428 » Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:59 pm

What frank said times 2! :thumbsup:
Big Al's "Take-Em" Style Silhoutte Decoy Pro-Staff.
N.O. Outdoors Guide Service, President and CEO. "You try harder so we don't have to."
Don't do anything you wouldn't want to admit to the paramedics after.
dsm16428
hunter
 
Posts: 778
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 7:15 am

Re: High Velocity Blind Side #1s?

Postby BBK » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:06 pm

Times three!
Why do I shoot 3.5" for geese? Because they don't make a 4" yet!
BBK
hunter
 
Posts: 3324
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:15 pm

Re: High Velocity Blind Side #1s?

Postby John Duck » Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:31 pm

Frank Lopez wrote:The only excessive wear you'll experience in on your wallet! :lol3:

Blind Side consists of cube shot in a special wad. Square, or cube shot was developed well over a hundred years ago on the continent of Europe to create very open patterns at close range to deal wit the tight covers and hedge rows. It was known as "dispersante" which means exactly what it sounds like. What Winchester did was to kind of tame this characteristic a bit by using a wad that stayed with the shot charge as much as ten yards down range. Effectively, they moved the pattern's useful range from about 25 yards to about 35 yards. By 40 yards pattern density is about gone, so the effectiveness of the load severely drops off. As far as the high velocity is concerned, consider this. Any small advantage to high velocity is the small increase in effective range. But, since the cube shot will slow down much faster than round shot, what's the point?

Buy some Federal blue box loads in 1 1/4 oz #2s at 1400fps. If you're feeling extravagant, buy Remington Nitro steel or Winchester Drylok in the same loading. Pattern those in your gun. If you use a modified choke, you'll have to hold a little finer on the really tight shots over decoys, but you should have plenty of pattern (and penetration) out to 50 yards. If you use your IC choke, you should be good to 40 or 45 yards.

Frank

So then, was this European dispersal shot real cubes with sharp edges? Blind Side seems to round shot flattened on the sides. I know that I and many others have had great shooting at long range with Blind Side, and in fact the company has had to come out with new closer wads because Blind Side preformed better at long range "as advertised".
John Duck
hunter
 
Posts: 210
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:25 pm

Re: High Velocity Blind Side #1s?

Postby John Duck » Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:48 pm

Don't forget too that patterning is in ONE dimension and that bird is moving not static cardboard (that's why I gave up patterning), also that smashed on the sides Blind Side 1 is really the size of regular steel 2, so you are getting a lot more shot in the shell (what really matters). Your going to get a lot more shot in the hull because of the actual size of the shot and the 1 3/8 load. My count of BS 1 3/8 no.2 load is 175 pellets, vs. a typical Winchester 1 1/4 regular steel is 143 pellets for a difference of 32 which is no small change in the pellet world. I have not counted the BS no.1 shell but would expect comenserate size count results. The type of wad BS uses to increase the mass togetherness of the weight of the load to longer range is a design accomplishment of great proportion as BS is a great shell. It really does knock the hell outta those long range ducks and geese. I have found shells almost as good are very less expensive prices so I now use those. Most of these shells are not the major manufactures lineup as they have their products "perfectly priced" to use stock maket terminology
John Duck
hunter
 
Posts: 210
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:25 pm

Re: High Velocity Blind Side #1s?

Postby Frank Lopez » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:58 pm

Two things, John.

One, take a child's wooden block and throw it at something. Make a mental note of the flight to the target. Do this more than once to establish a sound basis. Next, take a golf ball and do the same thing. Again, do it several times to eliminate abnormalities. Then tell us which one "projectile" flies truer and what you believe would be the better shape for a shotgun pellet.

Next, regarding your "long range kills". First, to my knowledge, Winchester has never, NEVER, advertised these loads as "long range" loads. Next, with respect to your patterning, you need to compare apples to apples. In other words, whatever you do with to the BlindSide loads, do the same to the standard round steel loads. Finally. set up pattern papers at 10 to 55 yards in 5 yard increments, then fire your patterns. Shoot both Blind Side and standard round shot and compare the patterns at each increment. Which load will deliver the best performance over the longest distance. Even with the 10% advantage in pellet count to the cube shot, my testing indicated a distinct advantage to the round shot.

Frank
I feel slightly sorry for a man who has never patterned his gun, who has no idea how far his chosen load will retain killing penetration. But I'm extremely sorry for the ducks he shoots at beyond the killing range of his gun and load - Bob Brister
User avatar
Frank Lopez
hunter
 
Posts: 2996
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:34 pm
Location: Long Island New York

Re: High Velocity Blind Side #1s?

Postby BBK » Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:03 pm

Frank Lopez wrote:Next, with respect to your patterning, you need to compare apples to apples.


You mean apples to sugar cubes? :lol3: :lol3:
Why do I shoot 3.5" for geese? Because they don't make a 4" yet!
BBK
hunter
 
Posts: 3324
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:15 pm

Re: High Velocity Blind Side #1s?

Postby John Duck » Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:38 pm

Frank Lopez wrote:Two things, John.

One, take a child's wooden block and throw it at something. Make a mental note of the flight to the target. Do this more than once to establish a sound basis. Next, take a golf ball and do the same thing. Again, do it several times to eliminate abnormalities. Then tell us which one "projectile" flies truer and what you believe would be the better shape for a shotgun pellet.

Next, regarding your "long range kills". First, to my knowledge, Winchester has never, NEVER, advertised these loads as "long range" loads. Next, with respect to your patterning, you need to compare apples to apples. In other words, whatever you do with to the BlindSide loads, do the same to the standard round steel loads. Finally. set up pattern papers at 10 to 55 yards in 5 yard increments, then fire your patterns. Shoot both Blind Side and standard round shot and compare the patterns at each increment. Which load will deliver the best performance over the longest distance. Even with the 10% advantage in pellet count to the cube shot, my testing indicated a distinct advantage to the round shot.

Frank

I think that you are taking old school ideas which Blind Side and Black Cloud and the next thing coming and not seeing the sea change that is happening in shot shell design. Before the Vietnam war anyone talking of plastic shot shells (developed for the heat, wet and humid conditions of the jungle) would have been thought nuts. You are right about the flight modes of round shot, God knows some ammo companies have touted this for decades. Designers are revaluating this now. I'm not sure, in fact highly suspect that pattern boards show what is really happening with shot loads. That shot is going thru a lot of mixed up hell before it hits an often fast moving target. The new/old thought is that mixing up that hell on purpose may be the better bet. Kind of like the fuzzy logic of the 90's. I doubt that shot is "projectile" like a mortar round is a projectile. In the Civil war the North would have the best shot tower produced grapeshot technology, but yet the South with loads of nails, scrap and garbage metal of all kinds produced higher mortality on the battle field.
John Duck
hunter
 
Posts: 210
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:25 pm

Re: High Velocity Blind Side #1s?

Postby John Duck » Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:40 pm

Frank, I don't have any BS boxes around but I sure do remember statements on the old boxes about the long range advantage of more shot in the shell and the hard hitting nature of the shell. I guess they were not specifically touted as a long range shell but that was the intent. It always is, isn't it?
John Duck
hunter
 
Posts: 210
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:25 pm

Re: High Velocity Blind Side #1s?

Postby BBK » Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:05 pm

In their promo video they show patterns at 25, 35, and 45.. then later on I believe they mention full choke for farther ducks and geese. But I didn't really hear them say anything about it being a long range load, which surprises me and should be the first red flag.
Why do I shoot 3.5" for geese? Because they don't make a 4" yet!
BBK
hunter
 
Posts: 3324
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:15 pm

Re: High Velocity Blind Side #1s?

Postby John Duck » Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:15 pm

BBK wrote:In their promo video they show patterns at 25, 35, and 45.. then later on I believe they mention full choke for farther ducks and geese. But I didn't really hear them say anything about it being a long range load, which surprises me and should be the first red flag.

It's interesting how things change, just a few years ago Ammo companies and Fish and Game departments were touting open chokes for steel shot, now not so much. Wadding technology has evolved, but don't know if that is the full story. I never use full choke on long birds, I bet that must be very interesting.
John Duck
hunter
 
Posts: 210
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:25 pm


Return to Shotshell, Reloading, Ballistics, & Chokes

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BBK and 10 guests