Why is F shot illegal?

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Why is F shot illegal?

Postby thomashamm2 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:43 am

Why is F shot illegal in wisconsin? i dont understand this.
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Re: Why is F shot illegal?

Postby dakotashooter2 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:57 am

I suspect it may be a safety issue.

You are shooting 40 or more 22 caliber projectiles into the air.... from a safety standpoint would you shoot a .22 rifle into the air.
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Re: Why is F shot illegal?

Postby 1448jonboat » Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:46 am

There is a very big difference between a 22 rifle bullet and an F pellet. Consider the distance a 22 rifle bullet will travel and the speed it will come back to the ground. A 22 bullet is heavier and much more aerodynamic than a F round ball.
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Re: Why is F shot illegal?

Postby BBK » Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:48 am

Safety. F shot can go a long ways before hitting the ground (not as long as a .22 lr,maybe a .22 short though). There is no logical reason to use F shot and be responsible doing so. Only thing F shot does that #BBB cannot is stretch your goose range to 70 yards, which is not being a responsible hunter IMO.
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Re: Why is F shot illegal?

Postby tornadochaser » Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:33 am

Crippling load. Does not maintain sufficient pattern density.

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Re: Why is F shot illegal?

Postby Slack Tide » Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:47 am

1) How many pellets are in an F load?
2) What was it intended for when manufactured?
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Re: Why is F shot illegal?

Postby Frank Lopez » Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:12 am

Slack Tide wrote:1) How many pellets are in an F load?
2) What was it intended for when manufactured?


1) F steel contains 40 pellets per ounce.

2) I suspect that it was an early attempt to compensate for steel's inherent lack of density. Coupled with high volume shells, like the 3 1/2 inch 12ga and the 3 1/2 inch 10ga, it was still pretty limited. Today, I would imagine that its only usefulness would be on swans.

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Re: Why is F shot illegal?

Postby solway gunner » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:25 pm

BBK wrote:. There is no logical reason to use F shot and be responsible doing so. Only thing F shot does that #BBB cannot is stretch your goose range to 70 yards, which is not being a responsible hunter IMO.


Thats an arrogant statement if ever there was one.Suppose all your shootings in your face decoying at skeet ranges ,judging all who actualy do shoot beyond 40strides by branding them irresponsiblelike some kind of wildfowl God?? :no:
So what happens if you pass shoot geese 99% of the time on marshes where geese rarely fly much below 50yrds unless conditions dictate--eg snow/fog/headwind- or you get a small group flying off in the half light early morning?,Let them fly on ? sit and wait until it snows?..
Learn to shoot straight with a 10ga with appropriately loaded shells and pellet size ,problem solved which is what a lot of fowlers on our marshes do.
Id much prefer to be using TT for long shots but im nearly out so ive now had to make a different load with F which is proving better than i expected and if they didnt work i for one wouldnt use them ,its that simple.
Your wrong on the BBB score too,that pellet size is the best lettered size for shot count and driven at 1450fps+ stones geese to 70yrds .
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Re: Why is F shot illegal?

Postby dakotashooter2 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:51 pm

I suspect it was originally loaded to appease the hunters who previously had used buckshot for shooting at high geese. I remember a few guys I use to hunt with. They would knock down 1 or 2 geese per box of shells and claim that buckshot was the cats meow for high flying geese. Of note, most of those geese came down because of only a single lucky pellet hit which usually happened to break a wing. Often it wasn't even the bird they were shooting at............
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Re: Why is F shot illegal?

Postby don novicki » Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:01 pm

I had a box for my Mag-10. It was Federal "F" shot,steel, 3-1/2", 65 pellets, it just say' s max dram equivalent, whatever that means. No idea what the FPS was as they don't list it on the box. I still have a few rounds left, but don't hunt anywhere I can use it anymore.I had no complaints with it and it did stone the geese. I shot most of it up in Ohio......
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Re: Why is F shot illegal?

Postby BBK » Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:21 pm

solway gunner wrote:
BBK wrote:. There is no logical reason to use F shot and be responsible doing so. Only thing F shot does that #BBB cannot is stretch your goose range to 70 yards, which is not being a responsible hunter IMO.


Thats an arrogant statement if ever there was one.Suppose all your shootings in your face decoying at skeet ranges ,judging all who actualy do shoot beyond 40strides by branding them irresponsiblelike some kind of wildfowl God?? :no:
So what happens if you pass shoot geese 99% of the time on marshes where geese rarely fly much below 50yrds unless conditions dictate--eg snow/fog/headwind- or you get a small group flying off in the half light early morning?,Let them fly on ? sit and wait until it snows?..
Learn to shoot straight with a 10ga with appropriately loaded shells and pellet size ,problem solved which is what a lot of fowlers on our marshes do.
Id much prefer to be using TT for long shots but im nearly out so ive now had to make a different load with F which is proving better than i expected and if they didnt work i for one wouldnt use them ,its that simple.
Your wrong on the BBB score too,that pellet size is the best lettered size for shot count and driven at 1450fps+ stones geese to 70yrds .



When you pull the trigger with f's you have the minimum shot count to kill a goose to start with. At 70 you are poking and hoping. There is no logical reason to shoot f shot and be responsible unless you use it for 40 to 50 yard kills where it MAY still have enough shot to kill a honker. And at that range you can shoot BB and BBB and be more effective.


I NEVER said taking 70yd shots was being irresponsible. I said shooting at 70 yards with F shot was irresponsible.
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Re: Why is F shot illegal?

Postby Jim Atlas » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:12 pm

BBK wrote:
solway gunner wrote:
BBK wrote:. There is no logical reason to use F shot and be responsible doing so. Only thing F shot does that #BBB cannot is stretch your goose range to 70 yards, which is not being a responsible hunter IMO.


Thats an arrogant statement if ever there was one.Suppose all your shootings in your face decoying at skeet ranges ,judging all who actualy do shoot beyond 40strides by branding them irresponsiblelike some kind of wildfowl God?? :no:
So what happens if you pass shoot geese 99% of the time on marshes where geese rarely fly much below 50yrds unless conditions dictate--eg snow/fog/headwind- or you get a small group flying off in the half light early morning?,Let them fly on ? sit and wait until it snows?..
Learn to shoot straight with a 10ga with appropriately loaded shells and pellet size ,problem solved which is what a lot of fowlers on our marshes do.
Id much prefer to be using TT for long shots but im nearly out so ive now had to make a different load with F which is proving better than i expected and if they didnt work i for one wouldnt use them ,its that simple.
Your wrong on the BBB score too,that pellet size is the best lettered size for shot count and driven at 1450fps+ stones geese to 70yrds .



When you pull the trigger with f's you have the minimum shot count to kill a goose to start with. At 70 you are poking and hoping. There is no logical reason to shoot f shot and be responsible unless you use it for 40 to 50 yard kills where it MAY still have enough shot to kill a honker. And at that range you can shoot BB and BBB and be more effective.


I NEVER said taking 70yd shots was being irresponsible. I said shooting at 70 yards with F shot was irresponsible.



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Re: Why is F shot illegal?

Postby solway gunner » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:39 pm

40 -50yrds i use no1s.
so what about BBB running out of puff at 70yrds??seriously?
you havent shot it down a full choke tube at 1450+at that distance on a goose,otherwise you wouldnt have made the statement its that simple.
F on paper doesnt look pretty,my patterns resemble Norskys at similar ranges to his also but Its working well for me to date.
It has its uses and looks like a suitable replacement for TT .When your pass shooting geese with a wind behind them at long range big pellets usualy make the difference between a pricked goose using smaller pellets and a dead in air bird with large ones.
ive had 5pinkfeet at similar ranges to this one for 8shots this last 7days using the same load,similar in performance to my old TT load which im happy with.,pleased with my new gun cam too only wish id had it from sept 1st.

Image
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Re: Why is F shot illegal?

Postby BBK » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:12 pm

No experience there. You are what we like to call "sky blasters" which is boo'd at throughout the marsh around here. Once a group does that, the rest of the marsh blows goose calls and honks horns every time a duck/goose flies within range of that group.
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Re: Why is F shot illegal?

Postby Elvis Kiwi » Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:09 pm

as to original question......over here you cant use a load with more energy than a lead#BB...why???? well they are deemed to hurt but not kill you at 90yards which just so happens to be how far apart you can place your maimai/stand/loo/blind without the other fellas permission.
x2 on the skybusting ruins it for all.
but yes I guess if you are in a line on the edge of an area where its the norm.....not my cuppa tea though.
where we shoot we have watched ducks gliding down far side of lake aiming to land at far end,every time a shot is fired they dont deviate just rise another 10 or so yards and carry on...lots of shots equals high birds that dont drop till where they want to be.
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Re: Why is F shot illegal?

Postby HCK » Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:13 am

Nice shot solway. :beer:
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Re: Why is F shot illegal?

Postby BT Justice » Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:22 am

dakotashooter2 wrote:I suspect it was originally loaded to appease the hunters who previously had used buckshot for shooting at high geese. I remember a few guys I use to hunt with. They would knock down 1 or 2 geese per box of shells and claim that buckshot was the cats meow for high flying geese. Of note, most of those geese came down because of only a single lucky pellet hit which usually happened to break a wing. Often it wasn't even the bird they were shooting at............

I'd go with this^^^^
Probably the laws carried over from the lead days on Buckshot also, I believe (not 100% sure) WI was also one of those that did not allow lead buckshot to be used either. Back in the lead days you had a lot of guys actually believing they could hit geese in the stratosphere with #4 buck, as Dakota pointed out these were more Hail Mary shots than anything else. Being a lot younger back then, it was a sight to see a lot of these guys hauling out the old 36" barrel Goose Guns and trying to hit high flying geese with buck shot. They would miss more times than ever hit anything, and why a lot of states outlawed buck shot for waterfowl, really not to safe filling the sky with lead pellets that could carry a fairly long distance.
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Re: Why is F shot illegal?

Postby Elvis Kiwi » Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:45 pm

spotted a rem 1100 in the gun rack the other day...stood out from the rest so went over for a look...had a 40" barrel!!!!!!!!
just the ticket for quail in close :huh: :huh:
hit em on the head with it :hammer: :hammer:
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Re: Why is F shot illegal?

Postby solway gunner » Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:42 pm

BBK wrote:No experience there. You are what we like to call "sky blasters" which is boo'd at throughout the marsh around here. Once a group does that, the rest of the marsh blows goose calls and honks horns every time a duck/goose flies within range of that group.


:lol3:
you mean like a little band dressed like the duck dynasty bros playing "yankee doodle dandy" every time someone takes a high shot with you on lead goose flute? :clapping: i can picture it all now! bet you get set up a few times too though-do you do requests as well? :lol3:

experience..?theres more in my dogs toe nail than youl ever have ,and you can trust me there :wink:

heres a BBB shot for you,but dont worry,you can have the band stand down,it was only 53yrds..sorry about the tomfoolery with the camera,it fell off its mount just before the second gooses lights go out too.
Image


BBK wrote:

I NEVER said taking 70yd shots was being irresponsible.

:hi:
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Re: Why is F shot illegal?

Postby mudpack » Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:27 pm

thomashamm2 wrote:Why is F shot illegal in wisconsin?


Because at the extreme ranges most nimrod hunters would be shooting F shot, it is a terrible crippler.
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Re: Why is F shot illegal?

Postby Frank Lopez » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:45 am

BT Justice wrote:
dakotashooter2 wrote:I suspect it was originally loaded to appease the hunters who previously had used buckshot for shooting at high geese. I remember a few guys I use to hunt with. They would knock down 1 or 2 geese per box of shells and claim that buckshot was the cats meow for high flying geese. Of note, most of those geese came down because of only a single lucky pellet hit which usually happened to break a wing. Often it wasn't even the bird they were shooting at............

I'd go with this^^^^
Probably the laws carried over from the lead days on Buckshot also, I believe (not 100% sure) WI was also one of those that did not allow lead buckshot to be used either. Back in the lead days you had a lot of guys actually believing they could hit geese in the stratosphere with #4 buck, as Dakota pointed out these were more Hail Mary shots than anything else. Being a lot younger back then, it was a sight to see a lot of these guys hauling out the old 36" barrel Goose Guns and trying to hit high flying geese with buck shot. They would miss more times than ever hit anything, and why a lot of states outlawed buck shot for waterfowl, really not to safe filling the sky with lead pellets that could carry a fairly long distance.


And isn't this really BBK's point? Very large shot results in fewer pellets, which in turn, make patterns with insufficient density.

Frank
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Re: Why is F shot illegal?

Postby greenster » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:56 am

solway gunner wrote:
BBK wrote:.that pellet size is the best lettered size for shot count and driven at 1450fps+ stones geese to 70yrds .


If your shooting ANYTHING with a shotgun at 70yds..your the one who needs stoned. Irresponsible. No better than the market hunters of the day.
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Re: Why is F shot illegal?

Postby eastcoastsoxfan » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:28 am

Think it depends on your conditions, I don't shoot ducks past 40 yards let alone 50 like a lot of hunters do. Sure I get skunked sometimes but I don't mind but If I did any amount of Goose hunting I'd be looking at 60-70 yard pass shots because 95% of the time that's all you get here. I'm not talking about hunting geese in a corn field, I understand why Solway does it, I'm betting his goose situation is like ours. Educated Geese that only make 2 flights a day daylight(to sit in the ocean) and dark(back to feed in the marsh) and unless its Gale force winds or locked up with ice and stupid flight geese moving you aren't getting 40 yard shots at them.
Last edited by eastcoastsoxfan on Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why is F shot illegal?

Postby 3200 man » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:11 am

I do see Solways point as he reloads very effective ammo and has paid his dues in learning how to shoot targets
way beyond most hunters abilities . ATLEAST , he's showing us here what is needed in equipment and loads to allow
him to be successful shooting Geese at this distance .

If you are Not set-up like he is and Don't know what loads ( size shot ) work best in your gun , Please stay within 50 yds !

We all would appreciate it.......BIRDS TOO ! :beer:
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Re: Why is F shot illegal?

Postby Garage » Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:33 pm

Perhaps they want to stop skybusting? I am not really sure. Here in Kansas, you can't use anything bigger than 2's to hunt Turkeys. But, for waterfowl, anything goes. You could use 00 buckshot, as long as it was a non-toxic shot.
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